Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by Galvatron » 2018-07-20 10:23pm

So, apparently ISD-1s have their heavy planetary-bombardment turbolaser cannons somewhere amidship, inside the main docking bays:

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Image

Reminds me of a 40k exterminatus.

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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-20 11:16pm

Well... that would be quite a useful panel for the Star Wars side if St vs SW debates were still a big thing.

Edit: That actually looks to be in the same ballpark as the single reactor shots from the Death Star in Rogue One. Which make me wonder what's so special about the Death Star if a trio of relatively tiny SDs (of which the Empire has tens of thousands) can approximate that level of destruction.
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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by Galvatron » 2018-07-20 11:26pm

The bombardment occurs shortly after a protracted surface campaign all over the planet, during which the command bunker was overrun by Imperial forces. Presumably, although it's not stated outright, any planetary defenses that may have shielded Mon Cala from an orbital bombardment until that point could have been neutralized.

Even then, Mon Cala apparently had nothing on par with Scarif's planetary shield. Tarkin was simply holding back.

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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by Patroklos » 2018-07-21 12:43am

Not that I think this will end up being the case, the location of the blasts source makes me think it may be a special purpose module that can be carried for niche work. I always thought thae ISDs hanger was particularly suited for temporary mission modules.

In this case though an ISD should have no need for such a thing in 99% of cases. It’s firepower is enough for any target not under a planetary it theatre shield.

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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by Lord Revan » 2018-07-21 01:21am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-07-20 11:16pm
Well... that would be quite a useful panel for the Star Wars side if St vs SW debates were still a big thing.

Edit: That actually looks to be in the same ballpark as the single reactor shots from the Death Star in Rogue One. Which make me wonder what's so special about the Death Star if a trio of relatively tiny SDs (of which the Empire has tens of thousands) can approximate that level of destruction.
Well the "single reactor" shot in Rogue One is a really tiny fraction of the full power Superlaser shot we see in ANH, there's also the symbolism of firing a single shot and having a planet blow up like a fire cracker oppose to having a fleet of hundreds or thousands of ISDs do the same.
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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by Captain Seafort » 2018-07-21 04:40am

Patroklos wrote:
2018-07-21 12:43am
Not that I think this will end up being the case, the location of the blasts source makes me think it may be a special purpose module that can be carried for niche work. I always thought thae ISDs hanger was particularly suited for temporary mission modules.
Presumably either the same, or a similar, weapon that the VenStars were armed with in the same location.
Lord Revan wrote:
2018-07-21 01:21am
Well the "single reactor" shot in Rogue One is a really tiny fraction of the full power Superlaser shot we see in ANH, there's also the symbolism of firing a single shot and having a planet blow up like a fire cracker oppose to having a fleet of hundreds or thousands of ISDs do the same.
Plus the issue that a fleet of ISDs, even if they've got the firepower to blow the planet apart, might not be able to get through the shields.
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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by PhoenixKnig » 2018-07-21 05:41am

Captain Seafort wrote:
2018-07-21 04:40am
Patroklos wrote:
2018-07-21 12:43am
Not that I think this will end up being the case, the location of the blasts source makes me think it may be a special purpose module that can be carried for niche work. I always thought thae ISDs hanger was particularly suited for temporary mission modules.
Presumably either the same, or a similar, weapon that the VenStars were armed with in the same location.
Lord Revan wrote:
2018-07-21 01:21am
Well the "single reactor" shot in Rogue One is a really tiny fraction of the full power Superlaser shot we see in ANH, there's also the symbolism of firing a single shot and having a planet blow up like a fire cracker oppose to having a fleet of hundreds or thousands of ISDs do the same.
Plus the issue that a fleet of ISDs, even if they've got the firepower to blow the planet apart, might not be able to get through the shields.
I thought that as well that's what they were trying to do is make a modular system in there. Note on VenStar: it is just SPHA-T w/ power cables attached to the reactor of the ship.

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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-07-21 01:46pm

At least the underwater fighters aren't just TIE balls with a propeller on the ass...
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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by PhoenixKnig » 2018-07-21 05:17pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-07-21 01:46pm
At least the underwater fighters aren't just TIE balls with a propeller on the ass...
I like the Imp Sub ( I believe that might be is what pic)
Imp subs r not Tie based
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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by Galvatron » 2018-07-21 05:57pm

Here's a nice pic of it:

Image

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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by PhoenixKnig » 2018-07-25 11:48am

At the bottom of a pic, is that the "tie with propellers" Aran was referring to?
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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-07-25 12:03pm

PhoenixKnig wrote:
2018-07-25 11:48am
At the bottom of a pic, is that the "tie with propellers" Aran was referring to?
No, I was joking about old canon's tendency to slap TIE cockpits on just about any version of an Imperial vehicle, like the TIE tank, TIE boat, etc...

EDIT: The two balls at the bottom of the picture are two swimmers in diving suits, those are the helmets.
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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by PhoenixKnig » 2018-07-25 12:04pm

Oh ok I don't know they were diver suits
Last edited by PhoenixKnig on 2018-07-25 12:09pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by PhoenixKnig » 2018-07-25 12:08pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-07-25 12:03pm
PhoenixKnig wrote:
2018-07-25 11:48am
At the bottom of a pic, is that the "tie with propellers" Aran was referring to?
No, I was joking about old canon's tendency to slap TIE cockpits on just about any version of an Imperial vehicle, like the TIE tank, TIE boat, etc...

EDIT: The two balls at the bottom of the picture are two swimmers in diving suits, those are the helmets.
Yeah some of the TIE series in the Old EU are a little ridiculous
Let us not forget the TIE spider Walker
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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-07-25 12:22pm

PhoenixKnig wrote:
2018-07-25 12:08pm
Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-07-25 12:03pm
PhoenixKnig wrote:
2018-07-25 11:48am
At the bottom of a pic, is that the "tie with propellers" Aran was referring to?
No, I was joking about old canon's tendency to slap TIE cockpits on just about any version of an Imperial vehicle, like the TIE tank, TIE boat, etc...

EDIT: The two balls at the bottom of the picture are two swimmers in diving suits, those are the helmets.
Yeah some of the TIE series in the Old EU are a little ridiculous
Let us not forget the TIE spider Walker
There's no "TIE spider walker". There's the MT-AT and the CIS Spider-Droid, but no walker exists that uses a TIE cockpit. There are actually two versions of a TIE tank, though.
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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by PhoenixKnig » 2018-07-25 04:18pm

I thought I saw it on an dossier
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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by Galvatron » 2018-08-11 10:16pm

This is from Star Wars #50:

Image

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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by fractalsponge1 » 2018-08-11 10:59pm

Galvatron wrote:
2018-07-20 10:23pm
So, apparently ISD-1s have their heavy planetary-bombardment turbolaser cannons somewhere amidship, inside the main docking bays:

Image

Image

Reminds me of a 40k exterminatus.
Jesus, it's like no one has ever actually looked at a damn star destroyer model before... Guess comics authors aren't afraid to use author's fiat.

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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by Batman » 2018-08-11 11:28pm

It's a big honking hole in the hull. Where would 'you' park a specialized planetary bombardment mission module?
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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by fractalsponge1 » 2018-08-12 12:51am

Not inside the hangar bay. It's not just a convenient hole. There's a gantry crane system in the ceiling, and it's not a natural place to think "oh, major weapon mount goes here" Would you just decide to mount an ICBM on top of a carrier deck because there's plenty of space? And I'd definitely wouldn't mount it where any recoil force is perpendicular to main engine thrust.

Just rolling the destroyer and using maybe all those big obvious turrets would look better, but seems there is really supposed to be an "up" and a "down" in most scifi. But whatever, the author can do what he wants. I just don't have to believe it looks like a good idea.

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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by Sea Skimmer » 2018-08-12 01:27am

The US did a whole test series of firing V-2 rockets off carrier decks, plus I have an official diagram around of how an MX missile on a motorized trolley can be driven off a Nimitz class hanger deck to fire from the water. Another option was to strap the MX to the side of the CVN island and drop them from that position. MX basing is fun.

The fact is nearly every single one of the Star Wars shipboard hangers in a horrible inefficient waste of space, and the ISD ones are bonus stupid since they don't even simplify takeoff and landings while the ship is underway. It's not unreasonable to think that some ships might be modified to exploit that space, that seems to be a leftover legacy of even worse designed clone wars era ships, for some other purpose. Really these ships should just have torpedo tube like apertures a few places that let the fighters come in an out, but graphic designers didn't allow that long before the authors got involved.
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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by fractalsponge1 » 2018-08-12 10:01am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
2018-08-12 01:27am
The US did a whole test series of firing V-2 rockets off carrier decks, plus I have an official diagram around of how an MX missile on a motorized trolley can be driven off a Nimitz class hanger deck to fire from the water. Another option was to strap the MX to the side of the CVN island and drop them from that position. MX basing is fun.

The fact is nearly every single one of the Star Wars shipboard hangers in a horrible inefficient waste of space, and the ISD ones are bonus stupid since they don't even simplify takeoff and landings while the ship is underway. It's not unreasonable to think that some ships might be modified to exploit that space, that seems to be a leftover legacy of even worse designed clone wars era ships, for some other purpose. Really these ships should just have torpedo tube like apertures a few places that let the fighters come in an out, but graphic designers didn't allow that long before the authors got involved.
I think for launch at least the the sides of the main bay are all launch racks bays, just behind doors. So that's almost like the apertures you're talking about. Unless flank apertures are huge any recovery is probably going to have to be automated with tractor beams anyway.

Landing *is* awkward, since a fighter has to get up into the bay volume then level out. Though I think if a fighter is lining up on a hangar, once they get past the lip of the main bay they have the same fighter lengths available for final approach than a carrier fighter hitting a deck just because the bay is so damn big and a TIE is so damn small - but if the system somehow misses the "catch" the fighter goes splat. That's the case with any pretty much any scifi big hangar system I can remember - no equivalent to touch and go.

Yeah I've heard about the ballistic missile launch tests - but my point is more that that's not what the area is designed for. The bay can be filled with cargo containers too but it'd be a little weird looking. And something as powerful looking as that bombardment weapon is is going to impose a lot of structural stress on an unprepared area. And to me, the hangar is not a natural looking area for something like that.

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Re: Orbital bombardments, planetary defenses, Death Stars, etc.

Post by Sea Skimmer » 2018-08-14 04:59pm

That's why these kind of hanger systems are dumb, you have a giant opening but no chance of a touch and go, so really all you are doing so increasing the probability of a bad landing smashing directly into the hanger equipment and parked craft, probably causing a massive fire and explosion. In the event of a good landing, a much smaller aperture would work just as well, and you could rely on a tractor beam for safety of the pilot and craft, while passive safety in the form of the not giant hole, protects the rest of the hanger which is more important.
TIEs clearly require a lot of support equipment and aren't meant for independent operations anyway, I mean when your hanger needs a force field just to keep the air in, needing a tractor beam for landings isn't that big a deal.

But you shouldn't really need a beam anyway. Since this is space you would just be doing a matched speed landing anyway like a a Harrier or helicopter onto a warship deck, not a 150 knot relative speed attempt at a wire trap. So landing into a small opening should be trivial, if the craft is not able to do this because of damage it's probably a wreck anyway, frankly one would quickly ask how it is even able to fly or move or otherwise attempt any kind of landing, and you have a shuttlecraft rescue the pilot and maybe hook the damaged fighter to an external rack for short term storage.

The only way a big open hanger opening makes sense if it's its going to take on bigger objects. AT-ATs and whatever transports those would be one reason, but that's still just a reason for an AT-AT sized slot.And that's not even considering the common but super dubious idea of pulling an entire rebel ship into the hanger bay to capture it. That's a really great way to get yourself blownup and yet for lol still appears to require the use of shuttlecraft to conduct the actual boarding operation.

The big hanger opening as actually being a modular mission payload space for actual ship componets would make some sense. Not amazing sense but it's a better use for it then being a giant hanger for tiny fighters that also happens to greatly increase the vulnerability of the ship and the surface area that needs armor.
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