Poll says half of Republicans would support postponing 2020 election if Trump did it.

[Joun_Lord]

Honestly I could believe atleast some Republicans (not saying all or a majority) would be totally fine with Trump suspending elections because they have it in their dang fools heads that Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread and that there was absurdly massive voter fraud.

Some Republicans have the same sort of fanatical love for Donnie that some Democrats had for Obama. He tells it like it is, he is really doing whats best for the American people except when the EVILLLLL Democrats and their ACLU lapdogs interfere, he's both going to make peace with Russia and bomb in into the stone age, he's going to solve immigration, bring back coal jobs, and make anime real (maybe that last part was hyperbole, maybe). They believe he's the only honest person in Washington (when he's in Washington, strangely none of his hardcore supporters are calling him out for vacationing just as much if not more then Obama) and will fix our democracy.

And then there are plenty that believe (on both sides) that there was some democracy ruining voter fraud. The Trump Dumpers believe that Hillary only lost because Trump was that popular, all the voting polls and popularity polls are only so low because Hillary rigged them. Pretty much since day one there was been talk of rigging, of collusion, of hacking and underhanded shit. Now to be fair its not like the DNC is innocent, ask any Bernie Sander's supporter. But according to the hardcore Trumpsters it was more then just Clinton owning the DNC, she apparently owns all the mainstream media, no not just a liberal bent or bias. Maybe one can make the argument atleast a majority of mainstream media has a liberal bias but this ain't what I'm talking bout, like CNN and MSNBC and everybody but Fox was in Hillary's pocket.

But back to the voting, plenty of theories of what Hillary did have been presented including that she colluded with the Russians herself but they backstabbed her, she rigged the machines, her people enrolled over 5 million illegals to vote for her, dead people voted for her, stolen votes, and most I heard some recent thing about several Failifornia counties have more registered voters then people of age to vote. And of course the hubbub about some states turning their noses up at the federal election probe. As far as they are concerned voter fraud is a rampant massive problem that swings elections and is a terrible problem (though apparently not so terrible as to deny them the White House, the Senate, the House, and a majority of Governor offices and state legislators, I guess all the fraudsters were taking a smoke break).

So yeah, I could truthfully see some Republicans supporting suspending elections. But again I don't think its a majority. I hope it isn't.

[Patroklos]

Yeah, I am not seeing where anyone mentioned Hillary in this thread. Where is the connection?

[Joun_Lord]

Its discussing Trump bitching about widespread voter fraud, while Trump might be a complete and utter moron I doubt he is complaining about HIS voter fraud, hence it stands to reason his concerns are about Hillary's antics during the election.

[aerius]

Honestly I could believe atleast some Republicans (not saying all or a majority) would be totally fine with Trump suspending elections because they have it in their dang fools heads that Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread and that there was absurdly massive voter fraud.

There's a shitload of Republican supporters who believe Trump is the best thing since all you can eat buffets and want him as emperor for life, and have no problem with every black, brown, gay, or leftist person being shot or deported. And if I ran a poll that percentage would probably by 40-50% of the Republican base. A bunch of Republicans are shitheads, news at 11. Tell me something new.

Ace Pace has detailed why these polls are useless bullshit, especially when the dumbasses at WaPo can't even report it straight. Why is it even news, in any way, that half of Republicans would support lord emperor Trump for life? Especially in a stupid-ass poll that's not even being reported correctly. This is National Enquirer shit.

Let me put this straight, because I don't think people get it. The media fucking loves Trump because he's great for views & ratings, they don't want to get rid of him, they want him sitting in the White House causing all kinds of shit so they can "report" on it and get ratings. And Americans eat this shit up and ask for more.

If the media wanted him gone he'd be toast already. They'd dig up all his tax filings and business records and tank the shit out his popularity, and by next year he'll be a lame duck or on the way to resigning after the entire Congress is stacked blue against him. Hell, he'd be powerless already since the majority of those in government would be shunning him right here & now.

[Patroklos]

That dog won't hunt, because that's not the context nazis were brought up in. They were brought in in specific regards no stupid polls Americans gererally will respond to, NOT voter fraud. You had to connect ten distant dots and make leaps to ten more to get even close to a Hillary reference.

For some reason TRR assumed Hitler's cunt referred to Hillary. There is no good reason for that. Yet others are being accused of misogyny instead of him.

[Flagg]

Yeah, I am not seeing where anyone mentioned Hillary in this thread. Where is the connection?

Read the first page.
What's truly bad is Trump launching his own investigation into Clinton voter fraud, claiming he won the popular vote.

For one thing it gives them a term as POTUS to more effectively commit more election fraud in 2020, the other is to muddy the waters with lies to again, improve election fraud.

Also, the cunt can't just take the win and ignore things that don't matter (for example, the popular vote), but he's such a delusional egomaniac that he HAS to have won the popular vote.

[Flagg]

That dog won't hunt, because that's not the context nazis were brought up in. They were brought in in specific regards no stupid polls Americans gererally will respond to, NOT voter fraud. You had to connect ten distant dots and make leaps to ten more to get even close to a Hillary reference.

For some reason TRR assumed Hitler's cunt referred to Hillary. There is no good reason for that. Yet others are being accused of misogyny instead of him.

The topic was addressed and given the attention and respect it merits. Which is to say less than my daily #2.
If you'd like to have an adult discussion you can begin by pulling your head out of Hitlery's cunt.

"Hitlery" has been a particularly popular offensive nickname for Hillary Clinton.

[Patroklos]

I read that as Hitler originally so it makes sense, I withdraw my objection. Though I find it hilarious that triggers attention given the character of more recent political name calling around here.

Now my question is why someone would use that insult against TRR when simultaneously bringing up the opposite and far more accurate BerniBro label. You gotta keep your flaming on message.

[Flagg]

I read that as Hitler originally so it makes sense, I withdraw my objection. Though I find it hilarious that triggers attention given the character of more recent political name calling around here.

Yeah, it's a bit old hat, but has been around since the 90's.

Now my question is why someone would use that insult against TRR when simultaneously bringing up the opposite and far more accurate BerniBro label. You gotta keep your flaming on message.

Could not tell you. Literally, I'm not allowed

You just gotta ask aeris.

Fixed those quote tags for you
~AD

[aerius]

Now my question is why someone would use that insult against TRR when simultaneously bringing up the opposite and far more accurate BerniBro label. You gotta keep your flaming on message.

I believe in equal opportunities and I practice what I preach.

---

Let me put this bluntly, this topic is an aborted fetus to begin with, ie. dead on arrival.

Let's see that article in full:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon ... 476262462b

Critics of President Trump have repeatedly warned of his potential to undermine American democracy. Among the concerns are his repeated assertions that he would have won the popular vote had 3 to 5 million “illegals” not voted in the 2016 election, a claim echoed by the head of a White House advisory committee on voter fraud.

Claims of large-scale voter fraud are not true, but that has not stopped a substantial number of Republicans from believing them. But how far would Republicans be willing to follow the president to stop what they perceive as rampant fraud? Our recent survey suggests that the answer is quite far: About half of Republicans say they would support postponing the 2020 presidential election until the country can fix this problem.

Here’s how we did our research:

The survey interviewed a sample of 1,325 Americans from June 5 through 20. Respondents were recruited from the Qualtrics online panel who had previously reported identifying with or leaning toward one of the two major parties. We focus on the 650 respondents who identify with or lean toward the Republican Party. The sample has been weighted to match the population in terms of sex, age, race and education.

After a series of initial questions, respondents were asked whether Trump won the popular vote, whether millions of illegal immigrants voted, and how often voter fraud occurs. These questions evoke arguments frequently made by Trump and others about the integrity of the 2016 election.

Then the survey asked two questions about postponing the 2020 election.

If Donald Trump were to say that the 2020 presidential election should be postponed until the country can make sure that only eligible American citizens can vote, would you support or oppose postponing the election?

What if both Donald Trump and Republicans in Congress were to say that the 2020 presidential election should be postponed until the country can make sure that only eligible American citizens can vote? Would you support or oppose postponing the election?

Roughly half of Republicans believe Trump won the popular vote — and would support postponing the 2020 election.

Nearly half of Republicans (47 percent) believe that Trump won the popular vote, which is similar to this finding. Larger fractions believe that millions of illegal immigrants voted (68 percent) and that voter fraud happens somewhat or very often (73 percent). Again, this is similar to previous polls.

Moreover, 52 percent said that they would support postponing the 2020 election, and 56 percent said they would do so if both Trump and Republicans in Congress proposed this.

Not surprisingly, beliefs about the 2016 election and voter fraud were correlated with support for postponement. People who believed that Trump won the popular vote, that there were millions of illegal votes in 2016, or that voter fraud is not rare were more likely to support postponing the election. This support was also more prevalent among Republicans who were younger, were less educated, had less factual knowledge of politics and strongly identified with the party.

Of course, this is still hypothetical.

Of course, our survey is only measuring reactions to a hypothetical situation. Were Trump to seriously propose postponing the election, there would be a torrent of opposition, which would most likely include prominent Republicans. Financial markets would presumably react negatively to the potential for political instability. And this is to say nothing of the various legal and constitutional complications that would immediately become clear. Citizens would almost certainly form their opinions amid such tumult, which does not at all resemble the context in which our survey was conducted.

Nevertheless, we do not believe that these findings can be dismissed out of hand. At a minimum, they show that a substantial number of Republicans are amenable to violations of democratic norms that are more flagrant than what is typically proposed (or studied). And although the ensuing chaos could turn more Republicans against this kind of proposal, it is also conceivable that a high-stakes and polarized debate would do the exact opposite.

Postponing the 2020 presidential election is not something that Trump or anyone in his administration has even hinted at, but for many in his constituency, floating such an idea may not be a step too far.

The article is a fluff piece at best, complete with a poll that uses loaded questions. And TRR tries to present it as a legitimate proof that half of Republicans support postponing elections and having Lord Emperor Trump for life. The fuck is this shit? To paraphrase Ace Pace, is this what passes for news? It's a goddamn embarrassment.

We have a poll using loaded questions with a hypothetical that's goddamn impossible. I might as well poll some Democrats on Dick Cheney vs. zombie Pol Pot for president and when 90% of them pick Cheney I'll write up an article that says "90% of Democrats support Dick Cheney for President". That's literally how valid the poll and the article that started this entire shit show is.

[Gandalf]

Honestly I could believe atleast some Republicans (not saying all or a majority) would be totally fine with Trump suspending elections because they have it in their dang fools heads that Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread and that there was absurdly massive voter fraud.

There's a shitload of Republican supporters who believe Trump is the best thing since all you can eat buffets and want him as emperor for life, and have no problem with every black, brown, gay, or leftist person being shot or deported. And if I ran a poll that percentage would probably by 40-50% of the Republican base. A bunch of Republicans are shitheads, news at 11. Tell me something new.

Go back to 2002 and they all said the same thing about Bush, stating that he was the Caesar figure that America needed, and that the only way to win the War of Terror was to give him all of the powers.

They'll probably say it about the next guy too.

[The Romulan Republic]

That dog won't hunt, because that's not the context nazis were brought up in. They were brought in in specific regards no stupid polls Americans gererally will respond to, NOT voter fraud. You had to connect ten distant dots and make leaps to ten more to get even close to a Hillary reference.

For some reason TRR assumed Hitler's cunt referred to Hillary. There is no good reason for that. Yet others are being accused of misogyny instead of him.

Wow.

I mean, I've seen some brazen lying, but this is impressive.

Taking a page out of your Furher's book, are you?

Oh, and reported for lying and falsely accusing me of misogyny.

[Thanas]

Oh, and reported for lying and falsely accusing me of misogyny.

He withdrew that objection in a further post, which was posted way before you made the report.

So we have you either being:

a) too dumb to read further down the thread before making a report
or
b) intentionally misusing the report system
or
c) both of the above.

Which one is it?

[Thanas]

Oh and just as a personal note to you TRR - your completely inccorrect and inappropriate comparison of Trump to Hitler would be a lot less insulting to my intelligence if you would at least get the spelling of his title right.

[The Romulan Republic]

Oh, and reported for lying and falsely accusing me of misogyny.

He withdrew that objection in a further post, which was posted way before you made the report.

So we have you either being:

a) too dumb to read further down the thread before making a report
or
b) intentionally misusing the report system
or
c) both of the above.

Which one is it?

Of course I did not intend to misuse the report system. I will concede, however, that I was probably too quick to use the report button, that I let my temper get the better of me, and I apologize for doing so.

[Simon_Jester]

The article is a fluff piece at best, complete with a poll that uses loaded questions. And TRR tries to present it as a legitimate proof that half of Republicans support postponing elections and having Lord Emperor Trump for life. The fuck is this shit? To paraphrase Ace Pace, is this what passes for news? It's a goddamn embarrassment.

We have a poll using loaded questions with a hypothetical that's goddamn impossible...

How is this being hypothetical an issue? Donald Trump is already alleging that millions of illegal immigrants voted in the election. Large fractions of Republican voters are already believing him.

Was the question the respondents were asked loaded? Yes. But it is the exact sort of 'priming' that would actually occur if Donald Trump were to somehow try to extralegally delay or disrupt the 2020 election. He could assert that millions of noncitizens were likely to vote in the election; indeed he has already done so. He could assert that the federal government and the executive branch under his authority should collate all the voter rolls and purge the suspect voters. Indeed, he has already done so, or taken early steps that would easily lead further along those lines.

...

In the event that Trump actually tried to do what the poll discusses him doing, the same Republican voters who responded to the poll would be "primed" in exactly the same way they were primed on the poll. Only they would be primed by the tweets of a president they trust, and by press releases from the White House. And by alternative news sources eager to tell them what they want to hear: namely, that they deserve to win all power forever but are being frustrated by the treacherous lawbreaking of an evil liberal conspiracy.

So, subject to comparable priming and leading questions that lead them down exactly the same primrose path we would expect from a hypothetical wannabe-dictator Trump in 2020, a large fraction of them responded favorably, the way 'hypothetical wannabe-dictator Trump' would want them to respond. 47% of Republican voters, or even half of that, is enough to do a LOT of disruption of election activities.

Is this development surprising? Not to cynics. This is not "news" in the sense of a totally unprecedented and amazing event. But it is also not "not news" in the sense of "irrelevant and to be downplayed as a thing that does not matter and should be forgotten, with the people who spoke up about it being denigrated for wasting our time."

Regardless of anything else TRR said or did, or his tone, or whatever else people have been attacking him over...

I maintain that the article he cited and the study it refers to, and the political implications of that study, deserve to be discussed.

[aerius]

The article is a fluff piece at best, complete with a poll that uses loaded questions. And TRR tries to present it as a legitimate proof that half of Republicans support postponing elections and having Lord Emperor Trump for life. The fuck is this shit? To paraphrase Ace Pace, is this what passes for news? It's a goddamn embarrassment.

We have a poll using loaded questions with a hypothetical that's goddamn impossible...

How is this being hypothetical an issue? Donald Trump is already alleging that millions of illegal immigrants voted in the election. Large fractions of Republican voters are already believing him.

Was the question the respondents were asked loaded? Yes. But it is the exact sort of 'priming' that would actually occur if Donald Trump were to somehow try to extralegally delay or disrupt the 2020 election. He could assert that millions of noncitizens were likely to vote in the election; indeed he has already done so. He could assert that the federal government and the executive branch under his authority should collate all the voter rolls and purge the suspect voters. Indeed, he has already done so, or taken early steps that would easily lead further along those lines.

Do you not know how your government works? As Flagg pointed out, it's flat out fucking impossible for the President to postpone the elections, that power is delegated to the States and is completely beyond him. Trump has the same chance of postponing the elections that Cthulhu does of becoming an officially recognized candidate. Zero. The poll is dead on arrival. Might as well make a poll on Arnold Schwartzenegger vs. Dolph Lundgren for President.

By the time you get to some wacky hypothetical where Trump manages to postpone the elections by extralegal means, you'll have much bigger problems to worry about than the fact that half of Republicans are cool with it. Like the fact that your country is likely a dictatorship, having a civil war, or otherwise completely & utterly shit the bed.

[Flagg]

Trump would have to put the National Guard of every state that doesn't cooperate (and no, I don't expect many Republican controlled states to hand away their power to any President) under Federal (his) control, and those National Guard units would have to then accept that control over the protestations of the state's governors and legislatures to essentially take control of all state functions. How many does anyone think would do so?

That act alone would either end Democracy, requiring no more voting, or more likely trigger a civil war at which point elections will be the last thing anyone will be thinking of.

So, like aeris said.

[Simon_Jester]

The relevant question is not "will Trump do exactly this?" As of this moment that seems functionally impossible, as you say.

The relevant questions are:

1) Trump will predictably call, predict, or talk about shenanigans. It is a habit of his to tell lies that feed a persecution complex, just as he continues to insist the Obama administration was bugging his offices and so on. Given that Trump will predictably claim that the 2020 election is going to be subverted, how much disruption of the electoral process and operations on Election Day can we expect from Republicans who believe him?

2) What will Trump be allowed to do in the interim, in order to chase down the fictitious millions of illegal immigrants he claims voted in the 2016 election? If 47% of Republicans would be willing to go so far as to delay the election, even if this cannot happen, we can extrapolate. It is reasonable to expect that that same 47% of Republicans, or more, will support other, less egregious things. What form might this take?

3) What are the long-term consequences of living in a polity where half of one major party can be relatively easily led into saying "I trust President Constantly-Lying Sleazeball enough to postpone an election he's running in, on his say-so that his political opponents are doing this thing, that he entirely made up claims about during the last election?" It is reasonable to be concerned that the stability of democratic institutions is endangered when such a faction gains enough power in a society. This is just as democracy in Turkey, Hungary, and many other countries has fallen apart over the past 10-15 years when a large political party emerged to focus on a single charismatic strongman, and which valued loyalty to the strongman more than it valued following the norms of constitutional government.

Even though there are clearly many obstacles to Trump, specifically simply setting himself up as dictator by declaring that the next election will not be held... The fundamental question is deeper than that. How much erosion of our existing democratic structures can we expect, and how much of what has already happened can be explained, in light of this kind of development?

[Flagg]

I understand your concerns. Trump already did cry "voter fraud" in 2016 and (possibly) pulled off election fraud that put him in office. It's been a going concern by the Republican Party since the 2000 elections. But as I've pointed out, if President Cockroach tries to do what this article posits, well nothing would happen except louder squealing from the Republicans. You have to remember, these are people who think Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 and that Barack Obama was a secret Muslim born in Kenya.

If he actually tried to postpone the election? Then it's his ass or ours. Is he dumb enough to start a fight for survival? Maybe. But will anyone let him?

[Flagg]

And I'll add, the things Trump are doing are the things that need to be reported on. Not stupid polls of stupid people of a small possibility.

[Tribble]

Why bother delaying an election when all Trump has to do is game the system even more and shut out those millions of democrat "illegal" voters?

[Flagg]

Why bother delaying an election when all Trump has to do is game the system even more and shut out those millions of democrat "illegal" voters?

Exactly.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Do you not know how your government works? As Flagg pointed out, it's flat out fucking impossible for the President to postpone the elections, that power is delegated to the States and is completely beyond him. Trump has the same chance of postponing the elections that Cthulhu does of becoming an officially recognized candidate. Zero. The poll is dead on arrival. Might as well make a poll on Arnold Schwartzenegger vs. Dolph Lundgren for President.

Um ... I'm not sure what you are talking about. Article II (section 1; clause 4) of the Constitution explicitly gives the right for deciding the date of the presidential election to CONGRESS. The states only powers are vis-a-vis their electors for the Electoral College. So, yeah, Trump could propose to the Republican congress that the election be postponed, and they have the legal power to follow through with that. This is definitely a hypothetical scenario worth discussing because it is not outside the realm of plausibility, especially since Trump has already laid the groundwork in advance for doing so. (I don't think it's terribly likely Trump will be able to get Congress to do this, at the moment, but the Republican prerogatives are a bit unpredictable at this point)

[aerius]

Trump is already a lame duck who can't even pass his healthcare reform bill through Congress and you think he can somehow get them to postpone the elections. Again, if it gets to the point where he can postpone or try to postpone the elections you have much bigger problems to worry about.