Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Lord Revan » 2017-04-27 03:50pm

Honestly it doesn't surprice me at all if Pryce was overly militarist dispite her civilian background (or should I say because of it), in fact I'd suspect that clone wars veterans form the cautious and least militant faction within the imperial hierarchy, while the most militant where the ones who have never been part of an actual military or warzone (aka someone like Pryce).
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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Patroklos » 2017-05-04 03:13am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:That's so weird. She comes off as some militarist but before this she was just some corporate heiress or something? Bleh. I'm gonna head-canon it that she also sidelined for COMPNOR or something, the Sithstaffel like the IRL SS might have some weird parallel ranking system to the actual military...
The world is full of military wannabees....

Revan is right on. Her militarism makes perfect sense as an outsider looking in who all of a sudden finds herself not just on the inside, but in a position of power on the inside.

And it obviously needs to be said a again that Moff /= governor, governor /= Moff.

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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Darth Winter » 2017-07-07 06:30am

Himser wrote:So i created a new Chart, with my best guesses at the insignias.

Image

Please let me know if there is a canon source that counteracts these.

the closest ones that don't jive (Branson and Titus (after he was demoted) make sense when you consider they are Intelligence Officers and have regular officers underneath them in certain situations. (Branson and the 4 Ranked Red Haired Guy makes sense if you look at how Geonosis at this time was almost certainly an Intelligence Run Operation and Patrol)
Amazing job! But i think you fogot about code cylinders. In A New Hope style junior and senior officers have 2 cylinder, high officers 3 cyliners and supreame officers 4 cylinders. In The Empire Strikes Back most of offcers have 1 cylinder and admiral have 3 cylinder. I undestand cylinders is a key device, but I think it important too. Kallus and Yularen has no code cylinders on chest, but as we know from Rebes episode "Through Imperial Eyes" he has one. It explain why Edmos Khurgee (maybe captain) and Hurst Romodi (general) has same rank plaque.

Also I think Second Lieutenant is a army analog of naval Ensign. Same thing with Senior Captain and Senior Colonel. Maybe it not new rank but new subdivision. I think there is more subdivision then Line and Enginering. In Navy it could be Line, Engenering, Guard, Support e.t.c. (like in Star Trek :) ). In army in could be Infantry, armoury. For example in my country (Russian Federation) Infantry and high command color is red. Tanks, artilery, engenerin, signals e.t.c. color is black. Army aviation and Anti-aircraft color is light blue. And it all in green army uniform. In Navy all have black uniform but naval infantry have red color and Naval aviation color is light blue.

So i think Empire can have analogical system. Blue+Rad. Red+Blue, Red+Yellow, Yellow+Red, Only Red, Only Blue, Only Yellow. I'm not shure about Blue and Yellow combination. Also think about uniform color. Why one officers dress grey and other dress Black?

Sorry for my english.

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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Himser » 2017-07-20 06:08pm

Thank You, Any and All input is appreciated!.

For code cylinders... part of my reason for creating this is because i really hate how "code cylinders" are used for ranks. it makes to me zero logical sense.

for example Kallus switching between having code cylinders and not makes more sense if the code cylinders do not have anything to do with his rank.

For Khurgee i really don't see it as a stretch for Darth Vader to have a Logistics General as an Aide-de-Camp for all his scheduling and whatnot needs. and it would make sense for him to be in direct command of Vader's personal troops. (so yes i'm Saying he was a Logistics General).

>Also I think Second Lieutenant is a army analog of naval Ensign. Same thing with Senior Captain and Senior Colonel.

Yes i agree, i needed a level at those positions however and i know the olden days British Army used to have Ensign as a Army Officer Rank. we obviously have Imperials with one single square as a Rank, we just don't know what they are called.

Yes i believe that the DIfferent Branches, (Navy, Army, Ancillary and Intelligence) all have different uniforms. For example Intelligence wheare Black.

Thanks Again!

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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Darth Winter » 2018-05-26 04:55pm

Just saw Solo movie. Any one saw Major rank insignia?
Captain - RRRB
Lieutenant - RRB

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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Himser » 2018-05-28 01:18am

No i didn't catch it,

But i did catch a YYYY on the twitter photos that have been out on behind the scenes,

and im pretty sure i saw a YYYYY and a RRRRR in the party.

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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Darth Winter » 2018-06-09 04:43am

After reading Thrawn comics i got this idea:
Image

Left rank insignia wear commander of something. Right rank insignia wear other officers. Third is black uniform personal.

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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Darth Winter » 2018-06-09 07:06am

Mistake in LCMD-COMM ranks. Right is here:
Image

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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by MKSheppard » 2018-06-10 07:19am

Darth Winter wrote:
2018-06-09 04:43am
Left rank insignia wear commander of something. Right rank insignia wear other officers. Third is black uniform personal.
I think you are onto something here, mein herr.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_officer
In the United States Armed Forces, the term line officer or officer of the line refers to a U.S. Navy or U.S. Marine Corps, commissioned officer or warrant officer who exercises general command authority and is eligible for operational command positions, as opposed to officers who normally exercise command authority only within a Navy Staff Corps.[1] The term "line officer" is also used by the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Coast Guard to indicate that an officer is eligible for command of operational, viz., tactical or "combat" units.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_A ... ed_States)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Marshall

Captain, United States Army: July 1, 1916
Major, National Army: August 5, 1917
Lieutenant colonel, National Army: January 5, 1918
Colonel, National Army: August 27, 1918
Captain, Regular Army (reverted to permanent rank): June 30, 1920
Major, Regular Army : July 1, 1920
...
General of the Army, Army of the United States: December 16, 1944
General of the Army rank made permanent in the Regular Army: April 11, 1946

Also, has anyone considered simply eliminating the CCG games? That's where a lot of the early rank insignia discussions came from.

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/insignia/badges.html

For example, the all yellow has a source as being the CCG for Khurgee:

Image
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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by MKSheppard » 2018-06-10 07:25am

Himser wrote:
2017-07-20 06:08pm
For code cylinders... part of my reason for creating this is because i really hate how "code cylinders" are used for ranks. it makes to me zero logical sense.

for example Kallus switching between having code cylinders and not makes more sense if the code cylinders do not have anything to do with his rank.
I think Code Cylinders are "Correlation = Causation" because they're indirectly linked to higher ranks.

Average schmuckatelli 2LT from the Imperial Academies? He got a single cylinder (standard issue) to hold all of his digital security credentials (authorization to open locked doors under his command, etc etc)

An Admiral like Ozzel?

Image

He's got more because he has a lot more digital security certificates to store and carry around, as part of his various functions as a flag officer -- since he's working with Vader, it stands to reason he'd be connected with Imperial "Big Operations", and would need to be security screened for those operations.

If you assume that an Imperial Code Cylinder holds say 100 standard cryptographic security signature certificates in a secure unalterable format that can survive for 30 standard years with zero power after being exposed to -200C Vacuum, dropped 100 stories, etc etc etc; then it explains why officers keep adding more as their ranks go up -- because those cylinders are a known "accepted" and secure system that has proven longevity and durability -- plus are significantly oversized making them easier to handle.

Think of the difference between a USB thumb drive and a microSD card -- USB thumb drives are harder to lose than a microSD card which is "sneeze and weep".
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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by MKSheppard » 2018-06-10 07:39am

As for "why do people in a Galaxy Far Far Away keep adding more shit instead increasing the size of their code cylinders, like how we've gone from 8 MB thumb drives to 128 GB thumb drives?"

Well:

Could be multiple reasons:

1.) Deliberate ease of use decision -- think of the difference between a USB thumb drive and a microSD card -- USB thumb drives are harder to lose than a microSD card which is "sneeze and weep".

2.) They're a standardized format -- given the length of service (centuries) for some ships, it may be that they are a known, proven long term reliable solution (if a bit bulky) for digital signatures.

3.) Deliberate design decisions to limit storage on them to say the SW equivalent of 640K to prevent espionage via using code cylinders as repurposed data storage devices.
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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Gandalf » 2018-06-10 09:15am

Maybe it also just serves as a convenient uniformed casing. While it outwardly looks the same, the innards could be anything from a punchcard to a microSD. It's possible that the sheer costs of upgrade keep some key things locked in place, and a Galactic Civil War is a bad time to have half the fleet be unrecognisable to the rest.
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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Patroklos » 2018-06-10 02:16pm

They could also be anachronistic. They might have been actual electronic device at some point, used for centuries for some practical reason until they just became an umbiquitous uniform decoration that remained long after they ceased being used for anything.

There are quite a few modern/ semi-modern uniform insignia/devices that have this origin.

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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Lord Revan » 2018-06-10 04:55pm

I wouldn't discount "they work and replacing them would be logistical nightmare", we got remember that while unbelivebly huge the imperial logistical capabilities are still finite and there's also the matter that any regular fleet wide upgrades would mean rebels might be able to "steal" some codes unnoticed much more easier since you're already dealing with replacing billions if not quadrillions of cylinders (or equilevants) on fairly regular basis.
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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by PhoenixKnig » 2018-06-11 11:24am

Patroklos wrote:
2018-06-10 02:16pm
They could also be anachronistic. They might have been actual electronic device at some point, used for centuries for some practical reason until they just became an umbiquitous uniform decoration that remained long after they ceased being used for anything.

There are quite a few modern/ semi-modern uniform insignia/devices that have this origin.
Rebels TV show tell us how it is still used
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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Eternal_Freedom » 2018-06-11 11:59am

Or they just decided "it ain't broke, don't fix it, we've got bigger shit to worry about."
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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by PhoenixKnig » 2018-06-11 12:03pm

MKSheppard wrote:
2018-06-10 07:39am
As for "why do people in a Galaxy Far Far Away keep adding more shit instead increasing the size of their code cylinders, like how we've gone from 8 MB thumb drives to 128 GB thumb drives?"

Well:

Could be multiple reasons:

1.) Deliberate ease of use decision -- think of the difference between a USB thumb drive and a microSD card -- USB thumb drives are harder to lose than a microSD card which is "sneeze and weep".

2.) They're a standardized format -- given the length of service (centuries) for some ships, it may be that they are a known, proven long term reliable solution (if a bit bulky) for digital signatures.

3.) Deliberate design decisions to limit storage on them to say the SW equivalent of 640K to prevent espionage via using code cylinders as repurposed data storage devices.
MK you might be on to something
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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Darth Winter » 2018-06-11 06:04pm

Here from spin-off movie costume designer instagram.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BcDdpV7BNP1/
Image

Well. We heve main structure after all.

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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by PhoenixKnig » 2018-06-12 11:52am

Darth Winter wrote:
2018-06-11 06:04pm
Here from spin-off movie costume designer instagram.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BcDdpV7BNP1/
Image

Well. We heve main structure after all.
From Rogue one right?
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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by MKSheppard » 2018-06-12 06:54pm

From that link
glyn__dillon
sometimes get asked, on Twitter, about certain things to do with the details of Star Wars costumes, especially Imperial costumes. I try to answer as best I can but I can’t always remember... ‘ranking’ is something that crops up every now and then ...so I’ve been meaning to post this on here for a while. My co-designer, David Crossman is a military expert, much like John Mollo was, so this is something he put together, after studying all the OT films and working out what he thought John Mollo was doing with the Imperial ranking. It was devised for Rogue One... and if there are any Imperials in Solo, we would’ve have used this system again... But obviously I can’t say if we did 😜 I hope it’s useful for all the cosplayers and costumers out there #ImperialRanking #Imperial #Darkside #501st #Ranking #StarWars #RogueOne #JohnMollo #DavidCrossman #Disney #Lucasfilm #GlynDillon #CostumeDesign #Co-CostumeDesigner #ConceptArt
mirahtrunks
Confused about Krennic. Was he an Army General back in the day? Is he now a General AND security & stormtroopers branch? Krennic if anything here would be operations...am I missing something?
glyn__dillon to mirahtrunks
Dave is really the man who knows a lot more about all this. But I do remember talking with him about the fact that ‘Director’ isn’t really a military rank. But that’s what was in the script. Of course Grand Moff is not a military term used in real life either. I believe Krennic’s white tunic made him ‘intelligence’, like Yularen. Then I suppose he would’ve likely worked his way up until he was in a position to give himself the title ‘Director’. I’m sure someone in the Lucasfilm story group has now come up with all this stuff, or if not, they’re probably working on it for a comic or a novel as we speak. We just have to deal with what we’re given in the script, at the time. I think most of the ‘expanded universe’ back story stuff gets written after we’re long gone.
Some interesting fan speculation:
olivergalbraith to glyn__dillon
my personal workaround is that ISB display the ranks of whichever branch their current assignment is in. In the case of Krennic, he is dealing with both Navy and Army so he displays both Admiral and General simultaneously by layering them on top of each other. This fits with his character, wearing a cape, using flashy non regulation blaster, doing whatever he can to bolster his appearance as an important figure.
Some interesting fan speculation:
olivergalbraith
This same thing can be applied to Yularen. Director of the ISB and only a colonel? No I believe he is just displaying a rank that makes people comfortable around him, he still holds authority, but not so much that people are unwilling to talk to him.
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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Darth Winter » 2018-06-13 10:23am

PhoenixKnig wrote:
2018-06-12 11:52am
From Rogue one right?
Yes. And in Han Solo we saw same system.

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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Darth Winter » 2018-06-13 05:28pm

Image

Well it is not completely correct, but have sense. There is no ISB and other special ranks. Navy Operation scheme take from admiral Brom Titus from Rebels. Stormtrooper ranks same as army but on black uniform.

I'm no completely shure about generals ranks. There is no High General in Canon, but Brigadier General exist, so i moved classic system.

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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by MKSheppard » 2018-06-13 08:30pm

To me it looks like this:

Imperial Navy:
Line Operations -- Command Qualified officers
General Operations -- Everyone else
Ground Operations (Naval Gunners/Naval Troopers)

Imperial Army:
Line Operations -- Command Qualified officers
General Operations -- Everyone else

Stormtrooper Corps:
(Wildcard, they're outside of the org chart for the military, but they're clearly military not paramilitary).

Imperial Intelligence:
Naval Intelligence
Army Intelligence

Wild Cards (ordered by relative power, most powerful on top)

1.) Imperial Security Bureau (Paramilitary alternative to Imperial Intelligence)

2.) Commission for the Preservation of the New Order (COMPNOR) (Paramilitary lower level feeder to ISB)
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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by RogueIce » 2018-06-14 01:16am

Darth Winter wrote:
2018-06-13 05:28pm
*snip image*

Well it is not completely correct, but have sense. There is no ISB and other special ranks. Navy Operation scheme take from admiral Brom Titus from Rebels. Stormtrooper ranks same as army but on black uniform.

I'm no completely shure about generals ranks. There is no High General in Canon, but Brigadier General exist, so i moved classic system.
So I'm not sure what you're doing with your uploading, but it's not coming through. Even when I go to the link it just says "410 Gone" on the page.

Have you considered just uploading to imgur.com or something like that?
Image
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Re: Imperial Rank Insignia Discussion

Post by Darth Winter » 2018-06-14 11:36am

RogueIce wrote:
2018-06-14 01:16am
So I'm not sure what you're doing with your uploading, but it's not coming through. Even when I go to the link it just says "410 Gone" on the page.

Have you considered just uploading to imgur.com or something like that?
This image look correct?
Image

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