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They went to a game convention and "presented" an upcoming game.

I'm at a loss for words...

Well...at first glance I could see how people wonder what the hell they're doing presenting this at a video game convention. On the other hand, it's a great way to raise awareness to people who might never have known just how bad it gets in some parts of the world. So I'm kinda split on this. If it gets people in the Sudan more help, I can't really say it's a bad thing...since it's not like they're trashing a historical artifact to do it, just crashing a video game convention.

The video was very tame. You see worse things on the evening news. If anybody is outraged about this they must live in a very sheltered place.

Other people have done it better. Even the "Third World Farmer" farmville game was better done than this. There's also games like Papers Please. This is just "you came here for video games? Well too bad, here's some guilt." I'd actually play a game like this, but no one would have the stones to actually develop it and make it as hopelessly difficult as it should be.

Either way: pre-rendered video, no gameplay demonstration. What is this E3?

TheFeniX wrote:I'd actually play a game like this, but no one would have the stones to actually develop it and make it as hopelessly difficult as it should be.

Have you tried "This War of Mine"? I haven't had a chance to play it myself, but everything I've heard about it has been positive (in a manner of speaking, considering it's a game about trying to survive as an unarmed civilian in the middle of a bombed out city).

Civil War Man wrote:Have you tried "This War of Mine"? I haven't had a chance to play it myself, but everything I've heard about it has been positive (in a manner of speaking, considering it's a game about trying to survive as an unarmed civilian in the middle of a bombed out city).

Looks good actually. Might be something I look into when I have downtime. A shame there's no co-op games, at least that I've found, in this vein. Nothing like dealing with the horrors of humanity with friends.

I can see why people would be irate aboot this. Its a gaming convention, not a shit sucks convention. Its a place to have fun and view games, not to be depressed about how the world sucks. People already know the world sucks butt, shit like this is a temporary escape. It would be like watching a comedy movie and out of nowhere one of the incredibly depressing Sarah McLachlan animal commercials starts playing (goddamn those commercials kill me, makes me half furious half depressed) killing your comedy buzz faster then Buzz Killington. One of the reason so many people get pissed about social issues getting injected into vidya games in the first place. They go into Call of Battlefield Black Cops Part 50 to escape reality.

On the other hand, its pretty tame as Thanas pointed out, certainly nothing to cause such a furor over even if the people in attendance were highly misled. And organizations like UNICEF need to get their messages out there and while this is pretty underhanded (especially if they did this without telling the convention planners what the hell they were planning on doing) its nowhere on the scale of what other organizations would do.

I can understand both sides but probably am leaning slightly more towards siding with the gamers considering I feel their is an appropriate time and place for such things and what should be a fun game convention probably isn't the right place. I'll admit I'm biased though considering I am one of those previously mentioned gamers who get our fatty nerd man tits in a twist about people injecting social issues into what is supposed to be a enjoyable past-time to give us a break from the stress and rigors of life.

The gamers who walked out will be feeling a bit foolish. If I was there I would stay to find out what these people are doing because I have this human quality called curiosity. The mindset of people who walk out like that is alien to me - it seems a combination of oversensitivity and unwillingness to face reality or new thoughts.

Manipulative bullshit.

This War of Mine pushes it in terms of morality preaching, but ultimately gets a pass because it's actually a fun game. It presents different conditions, you can build and upgrade, and you can take action to succeed and risk failure. That it comes packaged with a "war is bad, m'kay?" morality skin doesn't really detract from the underlying game, and thus the game is an effective one both in being fun to play and at least to some degree in delivering its message.

The "game" in this stunt, however, is a blatant example of someone spending 5 minutes sprinkling an "Africa sucks" story with gaming terminology over top of it. They couldn't even be arsed to at least put effort into it with "real" gameplay footage; it's just a bunch of concept scribbles slapped together in a shitty Powerpoint. That, I think, is a significant part of the offense: it's not just that they ambushed a gaming convention with a manipulative guilt trip, it's a goddamn lazy manipulative guilt trip, with an insultingly thin "gaming" clown suit thrown on top of it. And then to tie a goddamn bow on it they have one of the real-world victims come out to pontificate at you, so you can't even protest without looking like a complete asshole.

It's clear the people at UNICEF involved have no understanding of the video game medium, nor did they ever have any intention of seriously trying to use the platform to express UNICEF's ideals - they just saw an opportunity for a cheap shot and took it. Imagine buying a Thanksgiving turkey and sitting down with your family to eat it, only to discover upon carving the turkey that it's made of plaster: inside is a note saying "What's wrong? Why aren't you eating this? It's all the homeless have to eat this Thanksgiving," then meticulously signed by a roster of the city's homeless people. I try to give canned food to holiday homeless charities every year, so you can fuck off if this is your response.

People - human beings - only have a finite reserve of charity and good will to spend on the world. It's a fine and noble thing to give and have empathy for people who aren't us, and it's a good thing to try to encourage, stimulate, and expand that empathy as much as possible. But if your means of attempting that are to short-change and manipulate well-off-but-innocent people, fuck off. If you want to fuck with not-so-innocent people (say, doing the above turkey stunt to the land development board members who directly rendered those people homeless), I won't shed too many tears, but indiscriminately poaching on anyone who can be squeezed of more charity for your pet cause is pretty goddamn sleazy and insulting. There's a lot of causes to be charitable about, and most decent people usually give to a few. Don't badger them with bullshit.

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:Manipulative bullshit.

This War of Mine pushes it in terms of morality preaching, but ultimately gets a pass because it's actually a fun game. It presents different conditions, you can build and upgrade, and you can take action to succeed and risk failure. That it comes packaged with a "war is bad, m'kay?" morality skin doesn't really detract from the underlying game, and thus the game is an effective one both in being fun to play and at least to some degree in delivering its message.

The "game" in this stunt, however, is a blatant example of someone spending 5 minutes sprinkling an "Africa sucks" story with gaming terminology over top of it. They couldn't even be arsed to at least put effort into it with "real" gameplay footage; it's just a bunch of concept scribbles slapped together in a shitty Powerpoint. That, I think, is a significant part of the offense: it's not just that they ambushed a gaming convention with a manipulative guilt trip, it's a goddamn lazy manipulative guilt trip, with an insultingly thin "gaming" clown suit thrown on top of it. And then to tie a goddamn bow on it they have one of the real-world victims come out to pontificate at you, so you can't even protest without looking like a complete asshole.

It's clear the people at UNICEF involved have no understanding of the video game medium, nor did they ever have any intention of seriously trying to use the platform to express UNICEF's ideals - they just saw an opportunity for a cheap shot and took it. Imagine buying a Thanksgiving turkey and sitting down with your family to eat it, only to discover upon carving the turkey that it's made of plaster: inside is a note saying "What's wrong? Why aren't you eating this? It's all the homeless have to eat this Thanksgiving," then meticulously signed by a roster of the city's homeless people. I try to give canned food to holiday homeless charities every year, so you can fuck off if this is your response.

People - human beings - only have a finite reserve of charity and good will to spend on the world. It's a fine and noble thing to give and have empathy for people who aren't us, and it's a good thing to try to encourage, stimulate, and expand that empathy as much as possible. But if your means of attempting that are to short-change and manipulate well-off-but-innocent people, fuck off. If you want to fuck with not-so-innocent people (say, doing the above turkey stunt to the land development board members who directly rendered those people homeless), I won't shed too many tears, but indiscriminately poaching on anyone who can be squeezed of more charity for your pet cause is pretty goddamn sleazy and insulting. There's a lot of causes to be charitable about, and most decent people usually give to a few. Don't badger them with bullshit.

QFT.

I support Unicef, I used to do the money drives as a kid, but generally the goings on in Africa are of less concern to me than suffering closer to home. There are enough hellholes in the world that I can't donate to fixing them all, not to mention giving for non-humanitarian causes that are none-the-less worthy of my coin and time. I could have been duped by this in spite of having freely allowed myself to be used in commercials for big brothers and sisters, wearing a mascot costume for an MS walk, and donating to other causes as money allows.

What did I do to deserve being painted with that brush?

In fact, Unicef has, with this stunt, made me care less about their cause. They don't get another dime from me unless they apologize for this stunt and promise to only advertise via positive means in the future.

Jub wrote:In fact, Unicef has, with this stunt, made me care less about their cause. They don't get another dime from me unless they apologize for this stunt and promise to only advertise via positive means in the future.

Same here. Seriously, what's wrong this month? First Greenpeace goes crazy, now UNICEF goes sleazy... Next thing you know PETA is going to become reasonable!

No, that would be a miracle. If that happens, I'd win the lotto.

It is almost as if people have no idea that protests actually are part shock tactic and part inconvenience.

Thanas wrote:It is almost as if people have no idea that protests actually are part shock tactic and part inconvenience.

We know alright. We just don't condone them.

Did they actually log themselves in a convention? Has Unicef previously made such advertisements? For a official UN Program this seems a bit weird approach.

What if some of the people walked out because they genuinely thought someone wanted to make this game? There have been "shock" games in the past and they do not have the best reputation (they are not rarely bad, bad as in a bad game even when you strip away the "shocking" part). Video games that have an agenda from the outset are not welcome.

Then people aren't walking out because they find the game idea "too shocking". They walk out because they can tell this is going to be bad and not about an actual game, but what the hypothetical would-be developer's ego and how they are in love of their idea (again, assuming they took the words at face value). That is my impression when you have the guy starts talking.
Everyone has video game ideas. They are only worth a look if they actually try to realize them. If you are at a video game convention, you are only worth taking seriously if you either have a prototype or an actual established video game developer.

Yeah, it's easy to point and say "you don't want to do it in a video game, but people ACTUALLY HAVE TO LIVE THIS!" but unless they genuinely intent to make this game (which I would find interesting), why are you starting out by deceiving the audience you want support from?

If I was a game developer, I think they should genuinely try to make the game and give UNICEF links. Not a serious AAA game, but something made by Flash or RPGmaker, something you can make in a game-jam and/or quickly with a low cost. I would not be surprised if there would be genuine developers that would be willing to do this for free.

Thanas wrote:It is almost as if people have no idea that protests actually are part shock tactic and part inconvenience.

Are you referring to posters here or Unicef themselves?

Jub wrote:

Thanas wrote:It is almost as if people have no idea that protests actually are part shock tactic and part inconvenience.

Are you referring to posters here or Unicef themselves?

It seems clear he's referring to the people who are all in a tizzy that they were made to feel a bit uncomfortable by the suffering of others.

But this is the year were we learned that gamers still need to grow the fuck up, this is just a last minute reminder.

Vendetta wrote:It seems clear he's referring to the people who are all in a tizzy that they were made to feel a bit uncomfortable by the suffering of others.

But this is the year were we learned that gamers still need to grow the fuck up, this is just a last minute reminder.

I'm not raging at this or anything, it's just a sleazy tactic and if it was done to say, market a car or something, you'd be pissed about it too. They went to a gaming convention, wasted peoples time on something that has nothing to do with games, and then got rightly blasted for having done so.

Vendetta wrote:

Jub wrote:

Thanas wrote:It is almost as if people have no idea that protests actually are part shock tactic and part inconvenience.

Are you referring to posters here or Unicef themselves?

It seems clear he's referring to the people who are all in a tizzy that they were made to feel a bit uncomfortable by the suffering of others.

But this is the year were we learned that gamers still need to grow the fuck up, this is just a last minute reminder.

I kinda am with BCG on this, you don't need to be immature to find it distasteful to have this kind of thing shoved into your face when you're trying to nominally enjoy yourself, though I admit i'm not sure exactly how this differs from games that already have some sort of socialpolitical message that are real, other than this way you can paint people who walk off as the wronged party.

Is the real message here is that the very existence of a multi-billion dollar industry that exists only because the west is so rich it can spend billions on trivial entertainment is an offense to the 3rd world? Imagine if everyone just donated to charity and stopped war instead of playing soldier! (yeah i'll just ignore the jobs created. I also note that a programmer in the east earns maybe US minimum wage in absolute terms)

But yeah, we can have every thread about fun consumer electronics be about the appalling conditions in 3rd world electronics factories, or perhaps even go into the board games thread and point out how ridiculous it is that such board games can cost upwards of a weeks salary in the 3rd world.

So I guess manipulative shock tactics are okay as long as you approve of the message they're trying to deliver?

So, are shock tactics wrong in general?

I think it's not so much the fact it was a shock tactic, as in it was fully out of place, unexpected, and deceptive too. Imagine you went to the movies with your family to see what you thought was Episode 7, only it was a ploy by UNICEF to watch 15 minutes of human and animal torture. I'm sure people would be upset by being deceived in addition to the reaction to the images themselves.

That is a bit of a misnomer, for once I don't see any children or families present. And if that is torture, then every evening news I watched over the last few years is torture. Because starving african children (and with much scarier images than those that unicef showed) are commonplace on German news. Skip here to 9:00 and further on.

Jub wrote:

Vendetta wrote:It seems clear he's referring to the people who are all in a tizzy that they were made to feel a bit uncomfortable by the suffering of others.

But this is the year were we learned that gamers still need to grow the fuck up, this is just a last minute reminder.

I'm not raging at this or anything, it's just a sleazy tactic and if it was done to say, market a car or something, you'd be pissed about it too. They went to a gaming convention, wasted peoples time on something that has nothing to do with games, and then got rightly blasted for having done so.

The comparison to merchandising is just wrong on so many levels that it is not even worth addressing.

As for the other stuff: Oh boohooohooo. Poor gamers were inconvenineced for at most half an hour. Tell you what: Every protest has nothing to do with what normal people just going about their business want to do in said time. And given how some games these days are explicitly marketed these days as nothing but creepy wish-fulfillment I would think most gamers could do with a bit of their time "wasted" on real life issues.

That is a bit of a misnomer, for once I don't see any children or families present. And if that is torture, then every evening news I watched over the last few years is torture.

You're right of course, it was an example. I don't think having one of the movie previews being about starving African Children would be bad, but replacing the entire movie with something unpleasant would leave a bad taste in the mouths of the audience for several reasons.

Borgholio wrote:

That is a bit of a misnomer, for once I don't see any children or families present. And if that is torture, then every evening news I watched over the last few years is torture.

You're right of course, it was an example. I don't think having one of the movie previews being about starving African Children would be bad, but replacing the entire movie with something unpleasant would leave a bad taste in the mouths of the audience for several reasons.

And you would have a point if:
a) people paid 8 bucks for the benefit of attending this presentation
b) this was a feature-length movie
c) the games next door literally did not try to sell incest, rape, mass murder and genocide as positive things.

See, here's the thing. You as the game hero can pretty much do everything these days. Heck, the entire objective of most historical strategy games (which I do enjoy playing btw) is to be the biggest bastard around the block. You literally get achievements for wiping people out.

And yet - somehow gamers fret when being shown what doing such things would entail in reality is supposed to be a bad thing? It is kinda like Fox news watchers cheering for torture but refusing to view the Abu Gharaib pictures.