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Why is it that all the idiots and whackadoos that I come across think the U.S. government is complete crap and totally incompetent EXCEPT when it comes to massive conspiracies, converting the country to socialism/Communism and organizing to take guns away from citizens?

I WISH our government was credible and capable enough of carrying out a 9/11 in scope type conspiracy. Am I alone in seeing or thing these crazy thoughts?

There's a lot of dissonant ideas that seem to be held simultaneously in the 'American consciousness', but the gun thing at least seems to be self-fulfilling. I'm not sure if its because its such an old issue that people have grown up with, but policymakers on both sides constantly stoke the pot with their policies. Whether that's just poorly thought out partisan policy, or extremely well thought of divisive wedge issues used for ruthless political gain from an insane culture, I'm not qualified to say.

Because some people are such incredible egomaniac douchebags, they truly think that the entire state apparatus has to move in order to squash them, and all sinister plans must first dispose of them in order to work. Let's be honest here: the power grabs and tyranny they are afraid of will happen sometime, and the egomaniac idiots are so stupid they will cheer for it. No power structure be it democracy, oligarchy or empire can survive without the people's consent and apathy, booted by some support.

I'm fond of reminding people that the US government couldn't conspire to get the President a blow job without everybody finding out about it.

mingo wrote:I'm fond of reminding people that the US government couldn't conspire to get the President a blow job without everybody finding out about it.

Heh.

mingo wrote:I'm fond of reminding people that the US government couldn't conspire to get the President a blow job without everybody finding out about it.

Since that's something many administrations wouldn't even bother hiding, its a pretty asinine example. Indeed, its exactly the kind of harmless shit that would distract the media from a putative governments relocation programs/domestic spying programs/black helicopters/etc. Even shit like America ruining the lives of millions of people in Iraq and Afghanistan is making their pals heaps of money.

If you're one of the people Hav is talking about, you may believe that the government is totally useless and can barely run the country without pissing its pants while at the same time believing it has an army of soulless shock troopers ready to crush the American dream forever. Maybe the appeal of holding these two ideas is that they're both obviously wrong, so people can think about politics in a dramatised, fictional way, rather than dealing with the idea that politics is a real and important thing that shapes the lives of millions.

I'm of the opinion that if you're convinced the guvmint is going to take yer gunz, then the government should probably take your guns.

Stark wrote:If you're one of the people Hav is talking about, you may believe that the government is totally useless and can barely run the country without pissing its pants while at the same time believing it has an army of soulless shock troopers ready to crush the American dream forever. Maybe the appeal of holding these two ideas is that they're both obviously wrong, so people can think about politics in a dramatised, fictional way, rather than dealing with the idea that politics is a real and important thing that shapes the lives of millions.

That's the only explanation I can think of for explaining how someone like Ron Paul and his private army of anarchist lunatics exist. Some people don't understand why political and social institutions exist, and they don't want to understand either.

After all, when a guy like Ron Paul promises to shut down the Fed and gut the establishment, that's attractive to a substantial number of people precisely because it means they wouldn't have to understand how or why any of that shit works. They never consider for a moment the possibility that a given social system they dislike is around precisely *because* it helps people, just not them. It has to be a shadowy conspiracy and the millions of Americans employed by the Government are all in on it because you *could* cut them fat checks to commit social fraud on a level for which their is no precedent. Since the possibility, however small, is there it must also mean that it's exactly the case!

Ultimately when you cut to the chase Anarchists and their extension Conspiracy Theorists (who have since adopted American gun-owners) are just deeply cynical people who place no real faith in the social contract. Anybody they haven't met and scrutinized personally is guilty until proven innocent.

I want to emphasize that the above is how I feel about Anarchistic views in the FIRST world. Anarchists in other countries actually have a case for many of their criticisms (though not necessarily their agenda) and I can see how the experiences of people in the Third World would contribute to the Government = Evil attitude. However that's all a different animal.

Stark wrote:
If you're one of the people Hav is talking about, you may believe that the government is totally useless and can barely run the country without pissing its pants while at the same time believing it has an army of soulless shock troopers ready to crush the American dream forever. Maybe the appeal of holding these two ideas is that they're both obviously wrong, so people can think about politics in a dramatised, fictional way, rather than dealing with the idea that politics is a real and important thing that shapes the lives of millions.

Not exactly, my point was that the black helicopter, one world government fears where unfounded ,given our governments inability to keep much simpler, much more benign things secret. I agree with your point the US government is not completely ineffective, nor is it universally evil, it's just not able to pull off all the trilateral commission, Illuminati, new world order shit that some people keep insisting is the dark beating heart of power behind the power.

I think, deep down, some people simply WANT to believe that the government they see is a distraction and a puppet show and behind the scenes there are actually competent people in charge.

Or perhaps it's even simpler. Who was it who said that paranoia is the most comforting state of being, because if everyone is out to get you it means that you and your life matter?

Havok wrote:Why is it that all the idiots and whackadoos that I come across think the U.S. government is complete crap and totally incompetent EXCEPT when it comes to massive conspiracies, converting the country to socialism/Communism and organizing to take guns away from citizens?

I WISH our government was credible and capable enough of carrying out a 9/11 in scope type conspiracy. Am I alone in seeing or thing these crazy thoughts?

I think there's definitely massive cognitive dissonance in the way the government is seen by the right-wing, but I think it'd be silly not to acknowledge a certain amount of fuel being on the fire. Look at stuff like Ruby Ridge, where a relatively minor gun issue is used to justify a massively disproportionate and ultimately incompetent response that ends up with half a family dead.

Ruby Ridge was incredibly retarded. Unlike Waco, there was essentialy zero justification for it.

I don't think anybody worth their salt would ever conclude that social institutions work flawlessly. The issue is with the folks who think they don't work at all because they're too near-sighted to understand why the Government exists. It isn't just to benefit them.

You run into people in America every day who think Affirmative Action is a force of evil. They don't fathom why minorities are favored by a long-term program designed to break hundreds of years of race concentration in America's communities.