StarDestroyer.Net BBS

This is not a academic exercise. My shop-mate has ADHD. It is a diagnosed problem for which she takes medication (and boy howdy you can tell when it wear off or she forgets to take it!). It is driving me batshit. Sometimes I want to grab her by the shoulders, shake hard, and scream FOCUS, DAMMIT!

Yesterday I tried to ask her a simple question. A customer had called about a repair, or so her note said, but no further details. What did he want to know about? This provoke a verbal salad regarding the customers calling, the broken drivebelt on the sewing machine (which was irrelevant to a repair concerning heels, no sewing involved) the heat wave, Best Exotic Marigold Hotel, the shop computer regaining internet, the drought, traffic on I-65, the price of apples at Meijer, the color fuschia... I had to drag her back to the initial question several times before I got the answer (he wanted to know why it was taking more than one week to get the job done).

Holy shit, some days you just can NOT have a conversation with her!

She's not like that all the time, but enough to really be annoying. Her work is like that, too - often she can start and complete something but she is so damn easily distracted. My first day in the shop during the week I invariably find several repairs started but not completed.

The crazy thing is that she IS capable of organization - she's cleaned reorganized the entire shop and for the most part it's an improvement (once I straightened her out that just because she won't get on the ladder doesn't mean the rest of us won't, and we need access to it. In other words, no, it's not being stored behind a machine that takes two people to move, that's too out of the way).

I realize this is not her fault - she does have a problem that isn't under her control and her coping mechanisms/medication aren't going to work all of the time. I'm just trying to find a way to keep it from driving me around the bend.

You realize it's not her fault but you're here talking shit about her and saying you want to physically assault her. This is a post by someone who does not want to understand what it's like to have the disorder and would rather rant.

I've had it since grade school. I do what you described, but mine is not as severe. I no longer take medication for it (I hate amphetamines) because as I have aged, I've learned to deal with it and change my lifestyle to reflect the problems. My friends at school notice how my attention wanes and they politely correct me and tell me to focus on the matter at hand. Sometimes they engage my random (to them) connections with various topics while we focus on what we're supposed to be doing. Essentially, we multitask. Eventually the off-topic conversation goes away and we devote all of our attention to the task. My family does this as well. They certainly don't exhibit the massive and ignorant frustration you have on display in this thread. My advice would be to calmly work with her, try to engage her conversations while you work.

I've found that it really helps me to write down stuff. (I don't regard my memory as reliable not so much out of wanting to remember, but due to the increased reliability when you write shit down - making sure you have everything written there).

Would you also want to grab someone in a wheelchair and scream "WALK DAMMIT!"?

I mean, what the hell. Broomstick, why would you "straighten her out" when you don't even know how to deal with the issue, the motive for this thread? This is probably the most offensive post I've ever read by you. The problem is that you don't appear to care about her predicament. You just want your frustrations to be placated. "Straighten her out" implies that you didn't show tact when dealing with her lack of commitment to a job. Have you thought about asking her directly what does and doesn't work for her? Thank God you don't work in the mental health field.

As Grim Squeaker said, writing things down can help, depending on the person. Ask your co-worker if she does that at home and if it works.

A friend of mine stutters. A lot. It's terribly annoying for someone like me who likes fast-paced communication, and for others as well.

You know what i did? I asked her how to handle it.
Just like i would ask someone in a wheelchair whether she is okay with me offering her help all the time.
That worked out really well - she is okay with me finishing words she can't finish. She offered that herself instead of just allowing me to do that, so i can be certain that is alright with her. It works well - i am not annoyed and instead glad i could help, and she doesn't get upset about her problem.

Doing that without at least asking her permission would be rude. VERY rude. You don't just shove people around like that. How would you like it if you are not perfect at a task and someone else barges in every time you make the tiniest mistake and forcibly takes over the process? Yeah, sure, that may get it done yaddayadda. But how would you feel if it happened to you?
And how would you feel if it's not just one thing and one person - but if it happens constantly.
Think about that.


Then GO TALK TO HER!
"I noticed that you occasionally problems doing X, Y and Z. Is there anything i can do to help you?"
If there is, she will help you and you can do it, helping both her and you.
If there isn't, its not your fucking business to shove her around. Go talk to you boss if it really annoys you that much - AFTER you talked to your coworker.

Serafina wrote:Go talk to you boss if it really annoys you that much - AFTER you talked to your coworker.

I wouldn't give that advice. Broomstick's lack on knowledge on the issue may get her co-worker fired for being distracted.

Keep your mouth shut about it to your boss, have a polite talk with her about it, you'll find her plenty knowledgeable about how to help deal with her.

Use the internet to find some strategies. Look for information provided by freinds and family, they'll know some good techniques.

Just one last thing, in addition to PTSD i have ADD and was medicated like Jeff. If you get her fired because you went to her boss, you'll be about the worst person here. Not everything is about you, empathy is a good skill to learn. I shouldn't have to tell a fifty year old woman this.

JLTucker wrote:

Serafina wrote:Go talk to you boss if it really annoys you that much - AFTER you talked to your coworker.

I wouldn't give that advice. Broomstick's lack on knowledge on the issue may get her co-worker fired for being distracted.

Good point, i didn't consider that. Kinda assumed what i would do in that situation, therefore assuming that the explanation would be a bit more...delicate.

Serafina wrote:

JLTucker wrote:I wouldn't give that advice. Broomstick's lack on knowledge on the issue may get her co-worker fired for being distracted.

Good point, i didn't consider that. Kinda assumed what i would do in that situation, therefore assuming that the explanation would be a bit more...delicate.

I was being somewhat facetious with my "distracted" comment, but I think that's the way her boss would likely see it if Broomstick doesn't research the issue.

OK, everyone? Deep, calming breaths. I don't think we need to round up a people's tribunal to send Broomstick to the Gulag for terminal insensitivity just yet.

When I look at what she actually wrote, I see "I realize this is not her fault - she does have a problem that isn't under her control and her coping mechanisms/medication aren't going to work all of the time. I'm just trying to find a way to keep it from driving me around the bend."

This is not the sign of someone who is trying to get the ADD sufferer fired. Nor is this the sign of someone who dreams of beating the ADD out of the ADD sufferer. This is someone who is saying "I am annoyed by Betty, but my annoyance is MY problem, not Betty's problem. How do I cope?"

The fact that she expresses this annoyance does not mean she is trying to hurt her coworker. It means her coworker annoys her. Have you ever been annoyed? You know how sometimes, you think of unreasonable and inappropriate behaviors when you're annoyed? And how incredibly unhelpful it is when other people come by and psychoanalyze you for deep buried hostility, because you confided to them?

OK, now. I'd like to pass on some stuff I've heard- none of this is a panacea, but it was all put together by professionals in the context of "dealing with that person with ADD and getting them to stay on task." So maybe it'll help with what Broomstick actually wanted help with. That's going to take a while to put together, so I'm going to put it in the next post.

Some notes:

I assume here that Broomstick is a sort of de facto senior position here; she's telling Coworker what to do more often than the reverse, because she's got more job experience. I could be wrong about this.

Some of these ideas may not work, or may even backfire. DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR ANYTHING.

Finally, she's a grown woman, so obviously tact is essential.


And... Broomstick, is this woman hyper as well as having a short attention span? ADD and ADHD are not the same thing; without the hyperactivity there is no H.
____________

1) If she is getting distracted, and you need to tell her to do something, be clear and concise. Do not give elliptical hints, because she may miss them in the distraction of whatever shiny thing she's thinking about next. And then you will get annoyed because she's "not listening."

2) Precede any important statement with an alerting message like "Hey, Coworker?" That way, you can recall her back from whatever she's thinking about, to the world of shop problems, to deliver the clear, concise message in (1). Otherwise, you may be half way into your sentence before she figures out you're talking... in which case she won't get it, and you'll end up mad at her probably.

3) You might try giving her tasks that change frequently- five minutes of doing X, then ten minutes of doing Y, then eight minutes of doing Z. If you have her doing paperwork for an hour, she will get distracted. If you have jobs that break down into several separate subtasks, so that she can consciously shift tasks and stay within the limit of her own attention span, perhaps that will help.

4) If there are any especially quiet, uncluttered parts of the shop where she might work, having her in those might be a good thing. Fewer sensory distractions typically mean less problem with ADD.

5) "If you can't say anything nice..." Seriously, if she's doing good work, try to give her some recognition for it, even if it's a small portion of a larger job. I would favor doing this instead of only talking to her when you're annoyed by her not finishing her stuff. That would just breed bad blood between you; no one likes a sourpuss. Whereas if you look for opportunities to say good things about what she's doing, it may improve your own attitude problem along with making her happy about you.

6) Do you workers at the store keep logbooks of everything you do during the day? In her case, that might be especially helpful. This will help her keep track of whether she remembered to finish her repairs, and whether she's producing as much as she should be. It might be a bad idea for other reasons, though. Take this with a grain of salt.

...

OK, there. SOME of those ideas might be worth something.

Broomstick wrote:The crazy thing is that she IS capable of organization - she's cleaned reorganized the entire shop and for the most part it's an improvement (once I straightened her out that just because she won't get on the ladder doesn't mean the rest of us won't, and we need access to it. In other words, no, it's not being stored behind a machine that takes two people to move, that's too out of the way).

Of course she is. Hyperfocus is a not-too-uncommon trait among ADHD people. I used to have it quite often when I was a kid. It's never voluntary.

Broomstick wrote:I realize this is not her fault - she does have a problem that isn't under her control and her coping mechanisms/medication aren't going to work all of the time. I'm just trying to find a way to keep it from driving me around the bend.

Okay, to be blunt here: don't you think that maybe, at some point in her life, your coworker has faced this reaction before? Complaints that she just won't pay attention, maybe that she's lazy or doesn't apply herself to the stuff at hand because she's immature or stupid or weird? Engaged with people who with anger and frustration in their voice demand that she do something that she couldn't possibly accomplish, i.e. "pay attention"? Assume she has. And be clear that this is the most counterproductive response possible to the situation. Note that I'm not saying you do respond to her this way, but you do appear to at least consider it.

Instead, there are a few more useful things one can do.

• If you give her a task, give it to her fully-formed. Don't add or change or mix things up when she's in the middle of it.
• If the information she's given is incomplete, ask her, very specifically, if she can recall this customer and what that customer wanted to convey. Remember also that ADHD often correlates with poor short-term memory. My own short-term memory is at around 30% below the median, with random memory loss whenever I try to form long-term memories. This gets extremely pronounced when people approach me in a frustrated manner and signal that I've fucked up, because stress magnifies such problems.
• ADHD is not stupid, is in many cases its polar opposite. Therefore, tackling it as some do by rewording the problem or speaking... even... slower, will only introduce more difficult-to-parse variables into an already bubbling pressure-cooker.
• Clarity. Being specific and to the point is key. ADHD people are often hard put to impose structure on themselves, but it's gratifying when others deliver what they want free of verbal obfuscation, because unpacking that information and reading it at the same time may be hard to do.
• By the same token, asking an ADHD person to prioritize under pressure without a clear priority may lead to congestion: since there's no clear order of precedence, the ADHD person can't properly order the tasks, so none of the tasks get done.

ADHD is a grab-bag description. It's often part-and-parcel of the psychological issues that a person with ADHD may have accrued from a lifetime of (mostly negative) reactions from other people. That means you can't always determine beforehand how to best work with an ADHD person. Asking, as someone suggested earlier in the thread, is a very good place to start. Also, trust the person in question to be useful. In certain respects, ADHD works like resistance training for the mind, and much like a blind person can be expected to have more acute hearing, the ADHD person may have honed certain mental faculties beyond what one might expect.

And... Broomstick, is this woman hyper as well as having a short attention span? ADD and ADHD are not the same thing; without the hyperactivity there is no H.

The current terminology is ADHD for both. ADD is formally known as ADHD-I (predominantly inattentive), which is what I have.

Hm.

I'm getting a different party line from a different organization; I won't dispute the point.

On the other hand, Broomstick would at least probably want to think about the difference; "inattentive and hyperactive" is not the same as "merely inattentive."



Eleas, what do you think of my suggestions? Ignorant? Viable? Prudent?

I don't want to exaggerate my own confidence on the matter, so I'd appreciate your opinion for a number of reasons.

The Grim Squeaker wrote:I've found that it really helps me to write down stuff. (I don't regard my memory as reliable not so much out of wanting to remember, but due to the increased reliability when you write shit down - making sure you have everything written there).

I do the same thing, and my memory for some things still frustrates my staff. Thankfully they're all considerate and understanding, and I like to think that the goodwill goes both ways and helps everyone.

Simon_Jester wrote:When I look at what she actually wrote, I see "I realize this is not her fault - she does have a problem that isn't under her control and her coping mechanisms/medication aren't going to work all of the time. I'm just trying to find a way to keep it from driving me around the bend."

This is not the sign of someone who is trying to get the ADD sufferer fired. Nor is this the sign of someone who dreams of beating the ADD out of the ADD sufferer. This is someone who is saying "I am annoyed by Betty, but my annoyance is MY problem, not Betty's problem. How do I cope?"

Read her post again. She said she wanted to physically assault her because she can't handle the annoyance. That's beyond "I'm annoyed." That's a comment by someone who is completely ignorant on how debilitative this disorder can be. Of course her intention is likely not to get her coworker fired, but if she remains ignorant, the wrong words could do just that if she talks to her boss about it. The fact of the matter is that her post was nothing but a rant and gives off the air that she doesn't want to learn and help her coworker, but instead alleviate her own personal suffering.

Simon_Jester wrote:Eleas, what do you think of my suggestions? Ignorant? Viable? Prudent?

I don't want to exaggerate my own confidence on the matter, so I'd appreciate your opinion for a number of reasons.

Not bad at all. #1 and #2 are especially useful and you pretty much can't go wrong with them. #3 is a qualified "maybe" but can backfire badly, because you may risk breaking a focus once the ADHD person has actually attained flow, meaning a lot of energy just got expended for nothing (and concentration is actually a finite reserve, as has been recently demonstrated by Science!). #4 is good as well, with the caveat that it can be tricky for non-ADHD people to spot a noisy environment. A room with a lot of sharp echoes or moving sound sources can be far more detrimental than (say) a continuous murmur of wind might ever be. For myself, I like to minimize the humming of fans, sharp reflections, and in particular conversations outside the room; I furthermore like to be able to visually track people as they speak without having to twist my body while I work, because otherwise there's some mental work having to keep track of the person by sound. For the more extreme ADHD cases, some measures actually include walking around with a recording device and playing it back, because that way you perceive all those noises that the non-ADHD brain automatically filter out. This lets you pick out noisy pipes, humming electrical systems and so on from the ambient soundscape (but to be realistic, if that level of handicap is a truly significant factor, the ADHD person will not encountered as "co-worker" so much as "patient").

#5 is tricky. I'd argue that it's true, but it's not just a matter of biting back frustration, but of being constructive and calm. ADHD people are often greatly empathetic; it comes with an inability to filter out impressions without consciously expending energy, so it's not trivial to just shut it out when other people give off vibes signifying total meltdown. Indeed, when one's body language signals one thing and the verbal signals don't match, things tend to become pretty rough.

#6: logbooks are good so long as it doesn't clash with her own sense of organization. Really though, she should be keeping records of her own and of her own volition. That habit is a beast to learn, but with tons of work it can be done (if paired with proper treatment) and it pays huge dividends in the end.

JLTucker wrote:

Simon_Jester wrote:When I look at what she actually wrote, I see "I realize this is not her fault - she does have a problem that isn't under her control and her coping mechanisms/medication aren't going to work all of the time. I'm just trying to find a way to keep it from driving me around the bend."

This is not the sign of someone who is trying to get the ADD sufferer fired. Nor is this the sign of someone who dreams of beating the ADD out of the ADD sufferer. This is someone who is saying "I am annoyed by Betty, but my annoyance is MY problem, not Betty's problem. How do I cope?"

Read her post again. She said she wanted to physically assault her because she can't handle the annoyance. That's beyond "I'm annoyed." That's a comment by someone who is completely ignorant on how debilitative this disorder can be. Of course her intention is likely not to get her coworker fired, but if she remains ignorant, the wrong words could do just that if she talks to her boss about it. The fact of the matter is that her post was nothing but a rant and gives off the air that she doesn't want to learn and help her coworker, but instead alleviate her own personal suffering.

Not sure I would read too much into it. People say they want to kill someone from time to time because that person does something annoying or is useless, etc. It doesn't mean they don't understand or will actually kill. It's just born out of frustration.

I'm going to second what Simon and Eleas have said. I'm also going to support the idea that there is no one solution, and would suggest asking your coworker about how both of you can work to get along better - doing so is offering a helping hand and while it might get slapped away (and there is that chance - don't take it personally) it could also help you both get to a solution. A person with ADHD is often well aware of their shortcomings, and can try very hard to work past/around them, but it isn't easy for them, and even little things to help out can make both a world of difference in the work environment and to them.

JLTucker wrote:Read her post again. She said she wanted to physically assault her because she can't handle the annoyance. That's beyond "I'm annoyed." That's a comment by someone who is completely ignorant on how debilitative this disorder can be.

It could not, say, be rhetorical? She could not be talking about the sort of random impulse that normal human beings suppress almost immediately?

Have you really never wanted to do something like that in response to someone for doing something you found obnoxious? Not even for a fraction of a second, flashing through the head in such a way that you know perfectly well you'd never do it?

Wow. That kind of sweet temperament is a rare pearl, if you ask me.

The fact of the matter is that her post was nothing but a rant and gives off the air that she doesn't want to learn and help her coworker, but instead alleviate her own personal suffering.

That is not a fact; that is what we call an opinion. You are interpreting her post in a certain way, because you consider the introduction more important than the conclusion. I believe the reverse, and interpret it differently. Since she's only posted once in the thread... yeah, I don't think that's a great sample size for "she's a vicious asshole who just wants to rant about this poor woman."

Yeah sorry Simon but nobody said "vicious asshole" but you. Don't put words in anyone's mouth. Tucker's not the only one that got that impression, that she only wants to "alleviate her own personal suffering."

That's not vicious assholery, that's just selfishness. You ever wonder how people form these sorts of judgments about other people, when they only post once in a topic? Patterns of behaviour.

JLTucker wrote:You realize it's not her fault but you're here talking shit about her and saying you want to physically assault her. This is a post by someone who does not want to understand what it's like to have the disorder and would rather rant.

You're right, I don't know what it's like to have the disorder. That's one reason I find it so frustrating: I don't understand it on a gut level although intellectually I'm aware that it exists.

And really, it should have been obvious I have NO real desire to "physically assault" my coworker. It was a means of expressing just how frustrating I find working with her at times. I am quite aware that actually grabbing her and yelling FOCUS! is probably the worst possible approach. If she was capable of focusing on command she wouldn't have the problem!

I've had it since grade school. I do what you described, but mine is not as severe. I no longer take medication for it (I hate amphetamines) because as I have aged, I've learned to deal with it and change my lifestyle to reflect the problems.

She's 50 years old and needs medication to function even as well as she does, which is just being able to hold down a minimum wage job. Yes, I'd say she's got a bad case of it, probably worse than the average adult with ADHD.

My advice would be to calmly work with her, try to engage her conversations while you work.

That would be great IF we actually were occupying the shop on the same days but we aren't. Most of our communication is via notes (complicated by the fact she handles language about as well as I handle math and her spelling is creative to say the least) and phone conversations in noisy environments. Neither of which is helpful to the problems. It is easier to engage her face-to-face when I can utilize body language to help gain and focus her attention but alas, it seldom happens that way.

I also want to emphasize that I am NOT her supervisor. I have a bit more seniority but that's it. I can't assign tasks or order her to do anything. I can remind her that the boss wants this or that done by a deadline, but that's about it. I have no authority to tell her how to do her job. I can offer suggestions, that's it.

JLTucker wrote:I mean, what the hell. Broomstick, why would you "straighten her out" when you don't even know how to deal with the issue, the motive for this thread? This is probably the most offensive post I've ever read by you. The problem is that you don't appear to care about her predicament. You just want your frustrations to be placated. "Straighten her out" implies that you didn't show tact when dealing with her lack of commitment to a job.

If she doesn't improve in the near future she is going to be unemployed. That's not MY call, that's what the bosses say. I also have to work with her, and her problems are directly impacting my ability to get my job done. Her problems are leading to angry customers who then come to me, as they perceive me to be the competent one. I am spending half my work time correcting her mistakes and fixing her messes. Yes, I am getting frustrated.

Fact is, the better we can work together the better off we will both be.

I care about her as a person, I like her as a person, but working with her is not easy. Her problems are becoming my problems not because I want them to be, but because the turmoil and chaos that follows in her wake winds up in my lap. In order for me to keep MY job I have to find a way to make this somehow work out until either she gets her shit together or is put on the street.

Or are you laboring under the illusion this is a HAPPY person we're talking about? She's chronically frustrated because she's dysfunctional and knows it, and doesn't really have a way of making herself normal. If she gets fired then I'm looking at six, ten hour days a week until we find a replacement. Even if I was as selfish as you seem to think I am, it is in my selfish self-interest to make this work somehow. Get her fired? Hell no! I want to sprinkle her with pixie dust and make her into a fully functional, normal human being but I'm fresh out of pixie dust and we both know that's a fantasy.

I can't fix her. All I can do is find the optimum way for me to react/behave so as to not make the problem(s) worse, and if possible, help her where I can. I don't have a choice about sharing the shop space and schedule with her. Well, I suppose I could quit, or find another job, but seeing as it took me four years to get THIS one that's not an attractive option.

Have you thought about asking her directly what does and doesn't work for her?

Yes, I have asked her. Apparently she hasn't figured that out. That has a lot to do with why she is 50 years old and has never held more than a minimum wage job in her life. She is dysfunctional. I have asked her. Other than “take my meds” and “try to pay attention” she doesn't have an answer. SHE doesn't know how to handle her problem. She's completely deluded that she is doing much, much better than she actually is at almost every task other than cleaning the shop.

Oh – and she arrives 40 minutes early and stays about a half an hour late nearly every single day because she needs to show up early to get organized and stay late to clean everything up. This is not, however, pleasing to the bosses as the company can't really afford the overtime so they've cut her official hours so she can do this without going into overtime yet still be paid for all time in the shop. Her response was to work off the books and not record the extra time. This REALLY pissed off the bosses – she doesn't seem to understand the legal issues involved. They actually are willing to move around the schedule so can arrive early if that's what she needs to do but she has to accurately record that time. Which is really all between the bosses and my co-worker, I very much DO NOT get involved in this, I just see it going on.

I suspect, given her age, she was not helped in school and was probably seen as a lazy and troubled student because that's how things were done in those days. She's been formally diagnosed and medicated, but she has minimal medical insurance and no surplus funds so treatment is pretty much JUST medication. It's obviously not adequate but I'm not her doctor/therapist/whatever.

As Grim Squeaker said, writing things down can help, depending on the person. Ask your co-worker if she does that at home and if it works.

She's barely literate. She attempts to simply keep everything in her head. Her memory is actually excellent, better than average, but while she does remember everything that's going on with stuff while she's in the shop (if you get her attention without distractions she can go on in remarkable detail about everything she's done over the course of a work week) that doesn't help those who follow in her wake after she's gone. I can't call her on her days off when I'm in the shop to ask her what ticket #5614 is all about when all that's written on it is “Bob” in the name slot and there is NOTHING anywhere else – no description of the footwear that's supposed to be attached to it, what needs to be done, whether or not it's prepaid, no date... and multiply that by 20 or 40 items. It's been three months and she still can't reliably fill out a job ticket or her record of hours. Yes, she's a bit on the messed up side. She actually has some talent at math, when she can focus enough to keep at the task.

She also sometimes stops by on her days off and goes through every single thing that came in while she was there and while she recites the pertinent information I can write it down but I don't think I need to explain why this is very much not an ideal situation. It does allow things to run smoothly, but the boss noticed that 95% of the tickets were in my handwriting, including those for days I'm not at work. Have I mentioned the bosses are pretty observant? They want HER to record the information correctly. On occasion the boss has reassigned me to another shop and run my usual shop for a day on her own, it's one of her ways of checking on how things are going. Then the boss gets the upset/unhappy customers, notes the lack of record-keeping, and so forth. I don't have to tell the boss any of “Betty's” problems, the boss already figured it out on her own. The boss HAS asked me to deal with the customers and clean up some of the other problems, which I've done, but it's getting old.

Aaron MkII wrote:Keep your mouth shut about it to your boss, have a polite talk with her about it, you'll find her plenty knowledgeable about how to help deal with her.

The boss knows. The boss also has no idea how to deal with this. She has said as much. I am trying to figure out how I can deal with this without running to the boss which, by the way, I have NOT done.

Phantasee wrote:That's not vicious assholery, that's just selfishness. You ever wonder how people form these sorts of judgments about other people, when they only post once in a topic? Patterns of behaviour.

Yeah, I only posted once because I was at work today – hard to get a second post in when you're gone for 12 hours.

Selfish to want to end my own suffering? Well, I can't fix her, and I know that my knowledge is so limited in this area that if I made the attempt anyway I'd like just fuck it up. Which is why, yes, I ranted HERE instead of yelling at my poor coworker who is laboring under a disability that I don't understand and haven't a clue how to deal with. Since I can't solve her problems the only thing I can do is find a way to cope. Selfish? More like, I know my own limitations her. I'm the only one I can change here.

I think most of the methods for "how to function with ADHD or help someone else do so" either require supervision, or require that the person with the disability spend a lot of time learning coping strategies. If she's working alone in the shop, and hasn't learned any coping strategies of her own... I don't know.

At that point most of what I can think of is sort of obvious- try to get to her on a day when she's on her meds, talk to her about procedure, especially the tickets... eh. You've probably already tried it.

Phantasee wrote:That's not vicious assholery, that's just selfishness. You ever wonder how people form these sorts of judgments about other people, when they only post once in a topic? Patterns of behaviour.

What pattern?

Simon_Jester wrote:I assume here that Broomstick is a sort of de facto senior position here; she's telling Coworker what to do more often than the reverse, because she's got more job experience. I could be wrong about this.

Nope, not senior. Well, a little more experienced and skilled, but in no way in authority over her. As I said, I can offer suggestions and remind her about deadlines but that's about it. Certainly when she asks for help I offer whatever I can.

And... Broomstick, is this woman hyper as well as having a short attention span? ADD and ADHD are not the same thing; without the hyperactivity there is no H.

I am strictly going off what she told me. I'm in no way qualified to diagnose. From my viewpoint she is the most distractable person I have ever dealt with. She also seems a bundle of nerves/energy. Talking with her, even being in the same room with her, can be exhausting. I'm not sure I can explain why that is.

1) If she is getting distracted, and you need to tell her to do something, be clear and concise. Do not give elliptical hints, because she may miss them in the distraction of whatever shiny thing she's thinking about next. And then you will get annoyed because she's "not listening."

Well, for better or worse I'm not a subtle or hinting person. I do have tact and diplomacy, but it's been my habit to be direct pretty much always. I'll keep that in mind.

2) Precede any important statement with an alerting message like "Hey, Coworker?" That way, you can recall her back from whatever she's thinking about, to the world of shop problems, to deliver the clear, concise message in (1). Otherwise, you may be half way into your sentence before she figures out you're talking... in which case she won't get it, and you'll end up mad at her probably.

We're in the shop on different days, splitting the week between us. Typically we have about a 3-4 hour overlap on one day of the week, but not always even that.

3) You might try giving her tasks that change frequently

As noted, I can't/don't assign her tasks. That's the boss' job.

[4) If there are any especially quiet, uncluttered parts of the shop where she might work, having her in those might be a good thing. Fewer sensory distractions typically mean less problem with ADD.

Unfortunately, not possible. As noted, she HAS reorganized the shop and it's much improved. I was totally happy with going along with whatever organizational system worked for her as I'm pretty adaptable in that area.

5) "If you can't say anything nice..." Seriously, if she's doing good work, try to give her some recognition for it, even if it's a small portion of a larger job. I would favor doing this instead of only talking to her when you're annoyed by her not finishing her stuff.

Fortunately, since we're usually NOT in the shop at the same time, it's virtually impossible for me to go off half-cocked. I have plenty of time to consider how to approach her. She is touchy and insecure – not that I blame her. It's obvious why/how she got to be that way.

6) Do you workers at the store keep logbooks of everything you do during the day?

That's sort of what the job tickets are for. No, no logbook.

In her case, that might be especially helpful. This will help her keep track of whether she remembered to finish her repairs, and whether she's producing as much as she should be. It might be a bad idea for other reasons, though. Take this with a grain of salt.

That would be a great idea... except for her literacy problems. She does have issues with written language skills as well. She compensates with a fantastic memory, but until someone figures out how to download directly from the brain to paper this is probably not the best approach.

OK, there. SOME of those ideas might be worth something.

I'm taking notes and thinking about them.

Eleas wrote:

Broomstick wrote:The crazy thing is that she IS capable of organization - she's cleaned reorganized the entire shop and for the most part it's an improvement (once I straightened her out that just because she won't get on the ladder doesn't mean the rest of us won't, and we need access to it. In other words, no, it's not being stored behind a machine that takes two people to move, that's too out of the way).

Of course she is. Hyperfocus is a not-too-uncommon trait among ADHD people. I used to have it quite often when I was a kid. It's never voluntary.

I did not know that.

I know you said it wasn't voluntary, but is there any way to harness some of that?

Broomstick wrote:I realize this is not her fault - she does have a problem that isn't under her control and her coping mechanisms/medication aren't going to work all of the time. I'm just trying to find a way to keep it from driving me around the bend.

Okay, to be blunt here: don't you think that maybe, at some point in her life, your coworker has faced this reaction before? Complaints that she just won't pay attention, maybe that she's lazy or doesn't apply herself to the stuff at hand because she's immature or stupid or weird? Engaged with people who with anger and frustration in their voice demand that she do something that she couldn't possibly accomplish, i.e. "pay attention"? Assume she has. And be clear that this is the most counterproductive response possible to the situation. Note that I'm not saying you do respond to her this way, but you do appear to at least consider it.

I don't have to assume – I've seen it in the reaction of the staff of the big box store we're located in (she used to work for them before we hired her). Not the lazy comment – she just never sits still long enough for that to apply – but immature, stupid, weird, obnoxious, loud, hyper, and worse. There are some people who really do not like her (and some who do – she is, on a social level, quite adept in many ways).

• If you give her a task, give it to her fully-formed. Don't add or change or mix things up when she's in the middle of it.

I will definitely keep that in mind. Or breaking down a complex task into subroutines. Clear goal and concise directions, right?

If the information she's given is incomplete, ask her, very specifically, if she can recall this customer and what that customer wanted to convey. Remember also that ADHD often correlates with poor short-term memory.

Not questioning your expertise here, but her memory is actually above average, likely because she uses it as her main compensation for poor written language skills (verbal language is also excellent).

ADHD is not stupid, is in many cases its polar opposite.

Nope, smart lady in many ways. I talk to her like she's intelligent because she is. Writing is a bit of an issue, because her written skills are nowhere near her verbal ones. Of course, this was not immediately apparent but now that I know I can work around it. I take written notes for ME so when I see/speak with her I can update her verbally in a concise and clear manner.

Now if she could just leave a voice mail without rambling into a dozen unrelated subjects... >sigh<

Clarity. Being specific and to the point is key.

I'll keep that in mind.

By the same token, asking an ADHD person to prioritize under pressure without a clear priority may lead to congestion: since there's no clear order of precedence, the ADHD person can't properly order the tasks, so none of the tasks get done.

OK, that does explain a few messes that have greeted me when I show up to work in the morning...

Unfortunately, there is a retail aspect to this job – meaning the general public. We all know what sort of nasty beasts the general public can be. I will try to be tolerant of her leaving that sort of mess.

Also, trust the person in question to be useful. In certain respects, ADHD works like resistance training for the mind, and much like a blind person can be expected to have more acute hearing, the ADHD person may have honed certain mental faculties beyond what one might expect.

Aside from the extraordinary memory, she also has some well developed fact-to-face social skills. She can be quite personable and persuasive in conversation. Which is likely a factor in why she often is the best merchandise seller in any given week, she's got rad salesmanship skills. She is also ridiculously eager to be useful. That can work against her, when she takes on tasks she is not qualified or able to do in an attempt to be helpful.

The boss has asked me for feedback on what she does well, and is trying to keep her focused on tasks she actually does well. What she does well she does very very well. One of the problems is that what she doesn't do well she's horrid at but doesn't know that she's bad at it. She has this massive blind spot in that regard. The boss is giving her at least a half day of training a week (or trying to – it doesn't always work out) but has told me (whether she should or not) that really 3-4 hours of “Betty” is all she can take.