Singular Intellect wrote:
RedImperator wrote:
Yeah, because untreated addicts and the side-effects of untreated addiction present no cost to the taxpayer.
Where did I say anything about not treating people for drug addiction who want it? There's nothing wrong with the public floating the bill until said individuals pay it back.
Are you a moron, or a liar, or both, or what? These are your exact words:
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I would seriously advocate a system where any usage of drugs in this context means the user automatically waives any health care coverage that doesn't come out of their own pocket.
Since when the fuck does "out of their own pocket" mean "Oh, the public will float the bill, until they pay it back". If that's what you actually
meant, then you seriously need to work on your communication skills.
And of course, your idea is still stupid. It's a disincentive to seek treatment for addiction or addiction-related illnesses. It's just as stupid as any other disincentive to seek medical treatment, with the added bonus that, unlike when future heart attack candidates skip their regular checkups, addicts are out committing petty theft and missing work to support a habit.
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So they made a bad decision, and thus must pay the price for it. Boo hoo, cry me a fucking river. Explain why someone who choses to use drugs and then ends up in a bad way because of it suddenly means they don't have to take responsibility for it? I have to pay for it.
Fixed that for you. Let's stop pretending this is about anything except your precious
tax dollars, shall we?
Fine, let's talk money. According to
this study (warning: PDF), in 2002 the indirect costs of substance abuse in Canada were $24.3 billion (Canadian). That's basically lost productivity. The direct health care costs were $8.8 billion. Already we can see that while you're harmuphing about your taxes, the public health care costs are only a little more than a third the indirect costs to the economy. Your idea, then, is to save $8.8 billion by reducing the effectivenes of treatment programs designed to save the Canadian economy $24.3 billion.
But of course, that 8.8 billion isn't all addiction treatment. Half of that money, 4.4 billion of it, goes to hospitalization alone. Another $2.34 billion goes to prescription drugs--not to treat addiction, but treat addiction related illnesses; everything from stomach pumps to immunosuppressant medication for transplant patients. Inpatient and outpatient drug treatment combined cost the Canadian taxpayer $1.21 billion dollars--approximately 5% of the indirect costs. Your idea, again, is to pinch these pennies, reduce the number of people going to rehab (and remember, many addicts need multiple trips to rehab to get their lives back in order; even if they're willing to go the first time, how many are going to return if they're still paying off the first attempt?), and, I guess, eat the indirect costs. Incidentally, if treatment costs 5% of the indirect costs, guess how many addicts it has to help to pay for itself? 5%.
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And it's totally ethical to let sick people suffer because you have a "serious problem" with bad decisions they may have made decades before (not to mention, it's completely fair to punish some people for bad decisions--drug addicts--but not others, like the obese, or extreme sports enthusiasits, or an electrician who carelessly left a circuit breaker open to do a "quick" job).
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By all means, quote me where I stated other people making other bad decisions should not be held accountable for them?
How about you quote the part where you
did, numbnuts, since you only talked about drugs and I can't read minds?
Of course, part of why I assumed you didn't want to "hold other people accountable" because it would be irredeemably stupid to do so. I should have known better than to give you any credit. So you have now taken the position that anyone in Canada who smokes, drinks, overeats, rides a skateboard, doesn't wear his seatbelt, or ignores workplace safety regulations is
de facto uninsured. Presumably the latter three will only be charged if they suffer an accident, so they'll merely be impoverished for life (but hey, you don't want them to suffer, so I guess bankruptcy or having your wages garnished for the rest of you life isn't suffering...somehow). The former, however, now have a disincentive to get regular checkups, stress tests, go on the patch, get sober, take their insulin. Instead, they'll wait until they have a heart attack, develop emphyzema, enter acute liver failure, or go into a diabetic coma, at which point the taxpayers are on the hook for a whopping medical bill which realistically will never be paid back (just like what happens in America). Great way to save your tax dollars, smart guy.
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While you're at it, feel free to point out where I insisted we should be letting people suffer?
That would be the part where you said the public health system shouldn't pay for the treatment, brainiac. Then you backpedaled to "oh, they can go
on credit", but that's not any better because there's still a massive disincentive to recieve treatment
and, for those that do need major medical care, trades suffering without treatment for suffering without money. Nice ethics you have there.
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Are you trying to build a strawman army over there?
Are you trying to be a penny-pinching fuckoff idiot douchebag? Because you're doing a great job of that.
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Let me guess, you must think I object to being legally binded to paying vehicle insurance because I chose to operate a potentially lethal and dangerous motor vehicle, right?

Well, congratulations. You've descended from ordinary stupidity into total incoherency. What the fuck are you even talking about?