Death Star

ArcturusMengsk · Post by **ArcturusMengsk** » 2007-10-19 09:30pm

Noble Ire wrote:I should also note that the book states that the station's minimal operational crew was nearly one million.

The novel affirms the EGTVV minimum crew compliment on page 52:

The Death Star was, after all, as big as a Class IV moon, with a minimum of over a million beings making up the crew. Nothing this size had ever been built before... at least as far as Teela was aware.

Post by **Vympel** » 2007-10-19 10:48pm

New canonical size for the Death Star.

That's not a new canonical size, it's what it's always been, and what it's been said to be since the 1997 OT:ICS by Dr D W Reynolds.

ArcturusMengsk · Post by **ArcturusMengsk** » 2007-10-19 11:04pm

Vympel wrote:
New canonical size for the Death Star.
That's not a new canonical size, it's what it's always been, and what it's been said to be since the 1997 OT:ICS by Dr D W Reynolds.

I see. I've been out of the loop for a very long time; my last purchase previously was the old Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels at a sixth-grade book fair. I apologize for the mistake.

Post by **Vympel** » 2007-10-20 01:20am

I'm nitpicking, not lambasting you

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2007-10-20 03:25am

Vympel wrote:
New canonical size for the Death Star.
That's not a new canonical size, it's what it's always been, and what it's been said to be since the 1997 OT:ICS by Dr D W Reynolds.

To be fair, the behind the scenes info suggests a size of 216 kilometer in diameter. The ANH DS model was 120 centimeters in diameter and the scale was 1:180,000 (Curtis was mistaken when he guesstimated that the model was three feet in diameter in the Bantha Tracks section). The OP in this thread calculated a size of 220 km in diameter based on the trench runs.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2007-10-20 05:08am

Mange wrote:To be fair, the behind the scenes info suggests a size of 216 kilometer in diameter. The ANH DS model was 120 centimeters in diameter and the scale was 1:180,000 (Curtis was mistaken when he guesstimated that the model was three feet in diameter in the Bantha Tracks section). The OP in this thread calculated a size of 220 km in diameter based on the trench runs.

However, the earliest sketch of the proposed Death Star by Ralph McQuarrie gave it a size of 92 miles in diameter; at least 150 km in diameter.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2007-10-20 05:38am

Lord Poe wrote:
Mange wrote:To be fair, the behind the scenes info suggests a size of 216 kilometer in diameter. The ANH DS model was 120 centimeters in diameter and the scale was 1:180,000 (Curtis was mistaken when he guesstimated that the model was three feet in diameter in the Bantha Tracks section). The OP in this thread calculated a size of 220 km in diameter based on the trench runs.
However, the earliest sketch of the proposed Death Star by Ralph McQuarrie gave it a size of 92 miles in diameter; at least 150 km in diameter.

Nice! I've heard that McQuarrie calculated the size at which the DS would have to be in order to appear round in some shots but flat in others, but I hadn't seen that pic before.

Kane Starkiller · Post by **Kane Starkiller** » 2007-10-20 06:16am

The crew complement at least doesn't seem correct as it basically contradicts the novel itself: the habitable crust is said to be 2km thick for a volume of 160,000 cubic kilometers. What is it for if it's going to have a crew of less than a million?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2007-10-20 06:32am

The excess space is for additional troops and vehicles and ships, I would reckon.

Vehrec · Post by **Vehrec** » 2007-10-20 08:59am

I would imagine that one could in theory use a DS as a mobile base. Complete with staff officers, their families, teachers for children, greengrocers, blue-milkmen, and all the other services needed to keep a moon sized military complex running. After all, if the Death Star was intended to establish rule by Fear of Force, rather than by force itself, it wouldn't need to be sent into dangerous areas very often. It's like 99.9% indestructible after all. The temptation to use it's outer hull as a city my be difficult to resist in the long term. Although I must express doubts that the DS was anywhere near fully crewed/embarked at the time of Episode 4. Much of it was no doubt near abandoned.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2007-10-20 10:05am

Noble Ire wrote:I find it especially odd that the stated number of TIE fighters in that quote, 100, is some seventy times smaller than the figure given in the original Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessel, despite the fact that it is the same source that gives the Death Star's diameter as being a mere 120km. I should also note that the book states that the station's minimal operational crew was nearly one million, 265,000 soldiers included. The OT:ICS also notes that the Death Star had a crew of "millions".

You might be able to justify it by saying that the Death Star had 100 ln, with similar numbers for bombers, interceptors, recon fighters, etc. It is strange, though.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-10-20 10:15am

TIE/IN? Isn't that the interceptor? The one that most things say only came out around Endor? Perhaps the writers are trying to avoid pissing off the minimalist camp at Lucas, while not stating anything too rediculous about its numbers of actual TIE fighters of the period?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2007-10-20 10:20am

NecronLord wrote:TIE/IN? Isn't that the interceptor? The one that most things say only came out around Endor? Perhaps the writers are trying to avoid pissing off the minimalist camp at Lucas, while not stating anything too rediculous about its numbers of actual TIE fighters of the period?

TIE/ln, is the designation for the Standard TIE Fighter. It's actually a lower case 'LN' standing for 'Line Fighter', I believe.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-10-20 10:32am

Mengsk's quote is

four capital ships, a hundred TIE/In starfighters, plus assault shuttles, blastboats, drop ships, support craft, and land vehicles

In both instances. That looks a lot like a capital I and not very much like a lover case l to me. Of course, he may have got it wrong. But other sources have suggested that there was limited deployment of In starfighters in the same time period...

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2007-10-20 03:07pm

They probably meant to say hundred "wings" of TIE/In, since that is the fighter-contingent mentioned in the DSTC.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2007-10-20 03:10pm

I'm interested in knowing why there were Executor class Star Dreadnaughts mentioned in the book when canonically, the first Executors arrived after Yavin IV.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2007-10-20 03:13pm

We know that earlier prototypes existed, and that there had been larger craft in service for sometime. Could be a high level rumor, or some like the press fluff and propoganda that the USAF pumps about to pimp the latest high-cost weapon system, like the ATF on the History Channel or whatnot. We know that HIMS Executor did not begin construction until after Yavin, and took a month or two to complete.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2007-10-20 03:17pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:We know that earlier prototypes existed, and that there had been larger craft in service for sometime. Could be a high level rumor, or some like the press fluff and propoganda that the USAF pumps about to pimp the latest high-cost weapon system, like the ATF on the History Channel or whatnot. We know that HIMS Executor did not begin construction until after Yavin, and took a month or two to complete.

Well, it was explicitly mentioned to be Super class. Also, there was a SSD XXXX ship in the book as well.

Could well be one of the older classes.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2007-10-20 03:37pm

NecronLord wrote:TIE/IN? Isn't that the interceptor? The one that most things say only came out around Endor? Perhaps the writers are trying to avoid pissing off the minimalist camp at Lucas, while not stating anything too rediculous about its numbers of actual TIE fighters of the period?

Nope, the TIE/IN is a slightly improved model of the standard TIE. The Interceptor's a different beast entirely.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-10-20 03:54pm

Mmm. I've seen TIE/ln (presumably TIE/line or some such) used to reffer to 'TIE fighter [Grey]' on SWTC, but I have also seen TIE/In (Interceptor) used elsewhere. I expect Mengsk copied TIE/ln down wrong, mind, but still...

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2007-10-20 04:03pm

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:We know that earlier prototypes existed, and that there had been larger craft in service for sometime. Could be a high level rumor, or some like the press fluff and propoganda that the USAF pumps about to pimp the latest high-cost weapon system, like the ATF on the History Channel or whatnot. We know that HIMS Executor did not begin construction until after Yavin, and took a month or two to complete.
Well, it was explicitly mentioned to be Super class. Also, there was a SSD XXXX ship in the book as well.

Could well be one of the older classes.

And the "Super-class" is a Imperial disinformation piece to cover for new Star Dreadnought development (including the Executor-class battlecruiser) according to canon, remember? It makes perfect sense that the "Super-class" would be available knowledge while the Executor-class would not be. The chapter preface SSD was HIMS Devestator, a known Imperator/Imperial-class Star Destroyer; it must be a typo.

Fingolfin_Noldor · Post by **Fingolfin_Noldor** » 2007-10-20 04:17pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:And the "Super-class" is a Imperial disinformation piece to cover for new Star Dreadnought development (including the Executor-class battlecruiser) according to canon, remember? It makes perfect sense that the "Super-class" would be available knowledge while the Executor-class would not be. The chapter preface SSD was HIMS Devestator, a known Imperator/Imperial-class Star Destroyer; it must be a typo.

Jeez.. having to follow up all this damn retcons is bloody irritating.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2007-10-20 04:41pm

Typos? Try the four or so Vengeances floating around at the same time:

The Executor-class ship, Jerec's custom made SSD, at least two Imperial-class vessels etc.

This is nothing compared to that. :P

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2007-10-20 05:30pm

I doubt that Inquisitor Jerec's Vengeance was a unique vessel.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2007-10-20 05:45pm

Two things quick, since I don't have alot of time.

The "one hundred TIEs" thing early in the book is almost certainly a typo, given that later in the book they mention 120 TIEs and (later) over a thousand TIEs being deployed in defense of the station.

As for the SSDs, I have the quote somewhere, but its possibly implied to be something other than Executors... they seemed to suggest they were defintely "current production" models or some s uch.

Oh well, I might get around to posting quotes later.