Necromunda Junktion - tech analysis and discussion thread

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

Post Reply
User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Necromunda Junktion - tech analysis and discussion thread

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-10-14 04:53am

This is perhaps one of the several necromunda novels thus far that I have greatly enjoyed. Not only for the interesting tidbits I uncovered in it, but also because its a rather enjoyable tale. It was written by Matthew Farrer, who wrote the Shira Calpurnia novels. The main character is quite likeable in his own way, there is enough humor to amuse yet not enough to quite take away from the atmosphere, and the ending had a few revelations that, while fairly predictable, were also amusing. It's also more of a look into the "town life" aspects of the Underhive in Necromunda - the gangers and their wars are merely elements in the story, which is also refreshing.
I'd recommend the novel to anyone. Moving on...

I'll start short with this, cuz I'm tired.

Page 9
They wore scrolled and polished carapace armour and full helmets that covered their heads and shoulders. Beautiful bronze-coloured armour, the colour of aged sipping-liquor. Their faces bulged with darkvisors and machine-sights. There were grenades and limpet-meltas pouched at their hips and fat-barrelled fast-fire hellguns slung at their backs.

One of them was coming down the line nearest us now, ner enough for me to see the Hive City Militia emblems etched into his armour and hear the soft buzz of the climb-harness that was lowering him. Buying kit like that woudl send an Underhiver broke for a year. The visor was turned toward me, ,watching me without expression.
an Underhive town is attacked by Hive Primus City militia (which probably means the PDF for the rich folks.) Their gear and training seem to indicate they are of storm-trooper grade (making them significantly better than most PDFs and even most Guard forces.) Given the insane manufacturing capability of Necromunda, this is hardly surprising.

Page 31
Then they had gone to work on the big shutter-doors and that was when things got really scary, Thamm told me later, because the stuff they had to do that was good[. Not the gas-drills and sputtering red-glowing melta grenades you get with gangs who go in for hardware damage, but stuff most Underhivers won't see but once or twice in a lifetime. Long-necked cutting torches the same gleaming bronze as their carapace armour and white-hot meltas that brought the gates down in the time that their gang-made cousins would have taken to warm up. Even now the doors still hung in creepy derelict lean.
"melta grenades" (a low-tech devicee). Meltaguns are considered high-end devices by underhive standards.

Page 46
Every Underhiver should know about looking after cysts and rashes and sores, there are enough damn things that'll give them to you. Was it petty to let a kid get to me like that who didn't even know to clean out a sore?
Given the fact that the Underhive is a haven for all sorts of infectiosu agents, its probably not surprising they place a premium on medical stuff.

Page 47

- the weapons shop/armourer guy that Kass (the hero of the story) gives his laspistol powerpack to (to charge it up) says "an artisan's lucky charm" as he clicks it in for recharging." About as close to the AdMech "Machine Spirit" attitude most would get down here, I suppose.


Page 48

- House Delaque-style autoguns (long arms) have compact, smooth-handling guns, made to be "quick and easy to sto and keep out of the way when you have to move fast and quiet, or to get up a girder or down a chute" - that would seem to suggest a carbine.

Unfortunately the "house/gang" rivalries and divisions tend to create problems for projectile-firing weapons in that the ammo of a certain gang/house will onyl work with their firearms (Delaque autoguns with delaque ammo, for example). Though creative armourers/smiths can "cut down" or "adapt" weapons to change the ammo/caliber. (Kass' autogun is a Delaque frame, but a smith fitted a barrel and action from an Escher long-rifle, after having cut down the barrel and modifying the action so it woudl fit in the smaller frame, that is.)

Page 49

- Escher guns are "quick and clean", with "recoil but none of the jagged muzzle climb that you can always pcik the Goliath or CAwdor guns by.". It also apparently has a smoother feed ("eating up Escher ammo smooth as you please") than those guns.

Page 49
People who say you're either a las or slug shooter, that you can get the hang of one or the other, are squeaking with it. Ignore them. I remembered the kick as stronger, so overcompensation sent the first burst way off, but the right reflexes bobbed up after that and the two-tone burrned off quick, tight bursts that walked up the strips of plas-sheet as the weapon rode my shoulder.
Differences between a slughtrower and a las weapon, c hiefly being controllability and recoil.

Page 50

- smell of "cordite", giving the indication of the propellant. Kass doesn't think he could use one of hte great "hand cannons" that the Goliath use (probably because the Golaiths are obscenely strong, and thus they can wield heavier and more recoil-intense weapons without problem.)

Page 50

- twenty minutes for the las pistol power cell to be fully recharged.

User avatar
andrewgpaul
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2270
Joined: 2002-12-30 08:04pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post by andrewgpaul » 2007-10-14 05:23am

I wonder if the "Hive Primus City militia" are the same thing as the Enforcers. If so, they're modelled after the Arbites, and use the same sort of kit (although not quite the same quality).
"So you want to live on a planet?"
"No. I think I'd find it a bit small and wierd."
"Aren't they dangerous? Don't they get hit by stuff?"

User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-10-14 05:26am

No they aren't. Other books deal with the enforceers, which are basically more a kind of arbites (whether they are allied with or a replacement for, I havne't decided yet.)

The enforcers use different weapons as well (shotguns, shotcannon, and bolt pistols, among others) but not knonw to carry hellguns, meltaguns, or even plasma wepaons.

User avatar
white_rabbit
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2039
Joined: 2002-09-30 09:04pm

Post by white_rabbit » 2007-10-14 09:31am

Connor MacLeod wrote:No they aren't. Other books deal with the enforceers, which are basically more a kind of arbites (whether they are allied with or a replacement for, I havne't decided yet.)

The enforcers use different weapons as well (shotguns, shotcannon, and bolt pistols, among others) but not knonw to carry hellguns, meltaguns, or even plasma wepaons.
Enforcers are to the Arbites and the PDF is to the Imperial Guard, or for a modern world reference, the arbites are the FBI to the Enforcers state police ?

The Arbites usually maintain at least single fortress on the capital city of a planet, depending of course on its importance, and its often the most heavily fortified and obvious symbol of Imperial power. They are more concerned with " big " crimes, rebellion, incipient chaos worship or xenos infiltration, contravention of Imperial Edict, not local law.

For example, Marshall Byzantine, who you may recall from other GW stuff has been shown to lead an Arbites response to a 'Stealer uprising, and he led Arbites forces to interdict Ad-mech explorators illegally investigating a Dark Age complex sealed off by the previously mentioned Imperial Edict.

On Necromunda the enforcers, in Hive Primus at least, are directly controlled by Lord Helmawr, (when the guy is sane enough to use them).

Basically a bunch of policemen with an appropriate amount of weaponry for 40k. I can't open the link on this computer for some reason, but as I recall the Necromunda enforcers are also "heavily" based on the arbites model, and equipped appropriately, probably due to the massive wealth of Necromunda, and out of universe, because they wanted to put the Arbiters into the game, without having to have players create the high level threats and situations that the Adeptus Arbites have to deal with.

Arbites = galaxy wide organisation, designed to enforce the legal frame work of the rather complicated semi-feudal political entity that is the Imperium, serves as a direct, constant reminder of Imperial power and law to Planetary governors outside the Imperial military chain of command. Has its own fleets, psyker organisation etc, hell they even have nuclear weapons sometimes.

Enforcers = often arbites in everything but name, but on a smaller scale, direct control of the local Imperial Commander/Planetary Governor, look on actual Arbiters with "awe".

Everything else is basically the local cops with 40k stuff.
Image

User avatar
andrewgpaul
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2270
Joined: 2002-12-30 08:04pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post by andrewgpaul » 2007-10-14 09:55am

The Specialist Games article I linked to implies the Enforcers are unique to Necromunda - at least in the form they're depicted in. Other planets doubtlessly have their own police forces, but I don't think it's possible to extrapolate anything from the Enforcers.

It appears the Enforcers are planet-wide; the Enforcers in Hive Primus are recruited from other hives, and vice-versa. Their kit is deliberately designed to imitate the Arbites.

As to whether their allied to the Arbites, that would all depend on whether Lord Helmawyr tried to rebel.
"So you want to live on a planet?"
"No. I think I'd find it a bit small and wierd."
"Aren't they dangerous? Don't they get hit by stuff?"

User avatar
white_rabbit
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2039
Joined: 2002-09-30 09:04pm

Post by white_rabbit » 2007-10-14 11:53am

andrewgpaul wrote:The Specialist Games article I linked to implies the Enforcers are unique to Necromunda - at least in the form they're depicted in. Other planets doubtlessly have their own police forces, but I don't think it's possible to extrapolate anything from the Enforcers.

It appears the Enforcers are planet-wide; the Enforcers in Hive Primus are recruited from other hives, and vice-versa. Their kit is deliberately designed to imitate the Arbites.

As to whether their allied to the Arbites, that would all depend on whether Lord Helmawyr tried to rebel.
They aren't unique actually, Lord of the Night has "enforcers" as well, carapace armoured, shotgun toting "local" arbites with military grade equipment, Dark apostle similarly, but they don't have the power of the Adeptus Arbites, or their remit, when one actually turns up, he effectively takes command of the local coppers.

I may have not been clear in what I was saying, but I'm not saying "Enforcers" are a definate Imperium wide feature, but that there are almost always similar organisations fufilling the role of "civilian" state police controlled by the local planetary authority, with the PDF being the military assets controlled by the LPA.

Except of course where there is a significant Arbites presence, in which case they may control local policing right down the ladder.
Image

User avatar
andrewgpaul
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2270
Joined: 2002-12-30 08:04pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post by andrewgpaul » 2007-10-15 12:44pm

Ah, yes, we're talking about the same thing, from different angles :)

Out-of-universe, presumably the Enforcers in Lord Of The Night are inspired by the Necromunda enforcers. I wonder if the same could be true in-universe?
"So you want to live on a planet?"
"No. I think I'd find it a bit small and wierd."
"Aren't they dangerous? Don't they get hit by stuff?"

User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-10-18 02:09am

Next update.. more calcy than the last one.

Page 69

- Underhive rat is as "long" as Kass' forerarm and "thicker than his thigh".

Page 70

- here Kass notes tha tmost of the rats were "as big as a human baby", with tails longer than his arm.

Page 71

- A number of las shots (at least four, possibly a half a dozen) can noticably raise the temperature in an enclosed location (as can body heat) and cause Kass to sweat. This is indicative perhaps of the "energy loss" of a las-weapon (unless it hits a wall or something and releases heated matter into the air)

The space isn' especially wide (wide enough at least to extend an arm, but not much more - say 2-3 meters), but it is fairly tall and long.. at least 4-6 meters tall (there are at least two ducts, at least one KAss stands on, and he considers standing on the other) given Kass's probable height. Length isn't specified but it must be pretty long as he and a large number of rats can climb in and fill it.

Assuming (conservatively) a 2 meter by 4 meter by 4 meter area with air and a 12 K change in temp from room temperature (~300 K - 315 K or so corresponds to a Fahrenheit temp of around 102 degrees) will result in an energy input of 78 and 120 kilojoules depending on the specific properties of air you use - in my case I simply varied the specific heat.

Since this represents the energy lost to the surrounding air by the passage of the beam, this is bound to be a dramatic lower limit - it can easily be a small fraction (10%, 1%, or something in between) of the total output, given the beam virtually retains cohesion with the passage. Also it probably underestimates the length of the area... it probably would require more energy to heat up a lager area for any noticable period of time.

Page 71
I gritted my teeth, reached over and shot the head off a two-foot-long rat that had reared up on top of my pack with one of the strapps snagged in its forelegs. It had a tongue longer than my finger...
Kass' weapon blows the head off of the aforementioned giant rats. Nto sure if it was an autogun or itf it was a laspistol. In terms of calc or firepower it shoudln't matter much.

Page 75

- Kass's autogun has "light" recoil (whcih means the Escher recoil is "light"), but a las-weapon is even lighter, which makes it ideal for fighting on the duct or in confined spaces where balance is an issue.

Page 75
The next rat landed, scrabbled, snarled, and lost its face to a las-round. So did the next..
"losing its facece" seems to suggest putting a fairly large hole in the head. I could probably calc it, but it would require more work than I wish to do, probably be less reliable than other calcs I've done, and frankly, I don't think I really need to do it at this point. Odds are it'll just fit in with "what we already know". It's enough knowing it's creating a big hole in organic matter.

Page 76
The rat on my cuff yowled and scratcehd until I got enough wits back to jam the pistol against the side of its jaw and blow its head off.
Again, laspistol blowing the head off of of a rat. Not gonna calc it, but its worrth knowing.


Page 76

- at this point Kass has fired at least seventeen-eighteen las blasts, and possibly more (there's a point where he's basically "spray and pray" to hold the rats back, so we don't know how many shots he's fired them.) He's not out of ammo yet with the laspistol, but he did note he was "low on ammo" and that an amber light was winking on the back of the pistol. So we can probably say that a laspistol has at least 20-25 shots, depending on setting.


Page 112
They carried axes and cleavers slung at their backs and their big hands gripped thick-barrelled stubbers, the kind the House Goliath factories churned out and anyone else practically needed a tripod to use.
Indication of both the types of heavy armament the Goliaths can wield as personal weapons as well as just how frigging strong they are.

Page 140
I remembered Safine and her gangwomen. Respirator masks, belts of reloads, pistols, knives, pouches of grenades, climbing spikes, ,clip harnesses, darkvisors...

Sometimes we settlement types forgot what sort of walking armouries the successful gangers turned into.
Typical gear/equipment of a "succeessful" ganger( or gangers). One would imagine a "Decent" Guard Regiment could be equipped as well (at the very least, Necromundan regiments ought to be.)

Page 145
It was nothing like the flamers I'd seen used around Junktion before. Not a drizzly stream of burning liquid, but a blinding gas-jet playing across the corridor, scorching flesh into ash. The shotgunner managed one brief scream that was drowned out by the rapid bangs of his shells cooking off. The man I'd cut writhed for a few seconds and then was just smoke and bones, and the men at the doorway, Auvis and his companion, got about five steps before steps and screams stopped.
Different kind of flamer used, seems to be run off a gas rather than a 'liquid". Probably more like a cutting torch/plasma torch than a flamethrower, but oh well. It still burns enemies to ash though, so its just as destructive.

Page 154

- Junktion watchmen make use of "heatseer lenses" in watching for potential attack. (Infrared viewers.)

Page 157

- the watchmen guarding the water cisterns are "well kitted" - with photovisors over their eyes and respirators over their mouths (to protect against fumes from choke grrenades and flash from flashbang/flash grenades.)

Again, one would expect proper troops to be as well equipped (if not better) than gang members (even if those gang members are also prospective troops or as good as.)

Page 163

- one of the goliath guns has a "dot sight" (a laser sight, that can be occasionalyl visible in the dust) for aiding targeting. A "red dot sight" apparently.

Page 171

- the aforementioned "cremating" flamer gas-gun has a backpack, like all the others.

User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-10-22 02:39am

Last addition to Junktion. Got alot of the neat stuff too,including more insane Goliath stuff. Enjoy...


Page 179
House Delaque, of course, narrow shouldered and bald-headed, in a straight black thermal coat-cloak that could fox heat-scopes if youo knew the trick of it.
Again Delaque gear includes cloaks or clothing that can hinder/deflect infrared scopes, though there's apparently a "trick" to it doing so.

Page 183

- "heatseer monocle" being used by a ratskin. They're not just goggles or binoculars anymore. I'm constantly amazed how bloody prevalent night vision gear and sighting equipment like this is.

Page 190
Oordell had his thermal cloak spread over him, but if someone looked over the edge of Mirror-Bitten with a heatseer I'd shine like a torch.
Again, the cloak blocks IR detection. One wonders if Cameloline would have similar effects, given that camo netting appears to.

Page 198
Then the side of his skull exploded as his head wrenched sideways and by the time the boom of the shots died away Runs-Touching-Shadows was already flat against the side of the duct, slumped down from a crouch to a sprawl with the grin still on his dead face..
Ratskin gets half his head blown away, presumably by stubber or autoweapon.

Page 202

- the Goliath gang leader in Junktion wields a meltagun like it was a sidearm (he can wave it over his head). Once again we see that weapons that everyone else would treat like a heavy armament are at best rifles or pistols to the Goliaths.

Page 219
Hetseers and Darkvisors would be impounded if seen.
The new owners of Junktion intend to control the light, and thus ban Night vision devices. They ar evidently common enough (or potentially accessible enough even to the Underhive populace) that thread of impoundment of such devices if found is warranted.

Page 220
There were alreaddy four Steelheads guarding the compound, three more were in Spyglass tower and two at the base of the trail. Neither side would back down and nobody could say who drew first. One badly gut-shot steelhead managed to drag himself almost to Wilferra's gates before he died and the other, bleeding, staggered up the trail as his gangmates ran down to meet him. They fired thunderous heavybore autogun bursts after the Firebrand who'd survived the initial exchange but by then he was a disappearing shadow. The other Cawdor was sprawled on the ground with half his head gone and his chest and belly las-burned almost to ash.
Part of his head and the majority of his torso cremated by las-fire. We don't know what kind of las weapon, save that its probably not a lascannon . Then again they're Goliaths, so it may be. (Lascannon are generally single shot anyhow unelss they have a backpack power source)

Cremating most of a human's upper body (roughly 30-45 kg for a rather burly human male.) Creamting a human can require around 2.5-3.2 MJ per kg (depending on exact temp) and assuming 100% efficiency. This means around ~75 to 150 MJ, minimum (probably at least several times higher on inefficiencies alone.)

This then raises the question of what kind of las weapon used (and how many shots.) This could be a single-shot lascannon, or a lasgun or laspistol (meaning then that it fired off no more than a clip's worth of ammo, however one wishes to define ammo capacity. I generally go with the "40-60" shot standby.) Works out (roughly) to megajoule range weaponry no matter how you argue it, really.

Page 222-223
[
There was only one Firebrand walking the wall above us, a scrawny kid I didn't recognise carrying an autogun. An elaborate sighting monocle was built into one eyehole of his full-face black mask.
"sighting monocle"- presumably this is either an infrasight or mono-sight as described in the core rules.

Page 224

- amusingly the Militia raid from the beginning of the novel was ordered by a Guilder deemed "not a very powerful man in the scheme of things, but powerful enough" who had been annoyed by the fact some lights had been flickering. They'd traced the problem to a tapped power line the Guilders use (and that had been linked to Junktion). The Guilder ordered it taken care of and his adjutant ordered the raid from one of his captains (who pawned it off on a subordinate.) It wasn't even deemed important enough to report in detail (a minor issue.)

This also tends to confirm the idea that the "Hive militia" were not likely to be "special" or "elite" troops - they were dispatched on a relatively minor, insignificant mission (so much so that it was pawned off on lesser subordinates.)

Page 236
The Cawdor sentry on the wall was a different one to when I'd come through with Drengoff, but he was armed just as well and if he'd wanted to hit us he would have.

....

It wasn't Hive City but Undehive made [his gun], a heavy single-shot stubber that loaded with a bolt and lever, the kind that holesteaders called a rifle.
"single shot stubbeR" which basically is a bolt action rifle. "stubber" seems to be the catchall term for any semiautomatic slugthrower, while autoweapons are, naturally, automatic versions (SMGs and auto rifles.)

Page 237
"Give me your piece, else run and get up here! They skulk at the end of my scope range and won't come close, but with another piece up here they won't dare rush me, I said give it to me!"
The targets the Cawdor is firing on also fire back with las weapons. Kass leaves his friend (armed iwth a lasgun) behind to help. This implies lasguns have a range at least comparable to the scope range of a bolt-action rifle. Depending on the type of bolt action rifle, this can mean at least 600-800 metres, or may go up to 1-2 kilometers.

Page 239

- the attackers outside (other gangers) the wall had "Heat goggles" and "darkvisors" for night/darkness fighting.

Page 244
With a simple waggling motion he could fill the whole tunnel with cauterising white flame.
Flamers, predictably, can "cauterize" - one presumes thsi is the effect if they don't incinerate, ro that this represents a "lower" setting (to conserve fuel.) Cauterizing large sections of a huhman body can still be energy-intensive, however.

User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-10-22 02:41am

I have to say my favorite bits of this were finding the "lasweapon cremation" bit and seeing the insane sort of armament the Goliaths wield (glorified ma Deuces as rifles, and meltaguns as "sidearms".

The ending is also oine of the funniest I've seen this side of a Cain novel. I enjoyed this book. I actually can't wait to start reading the Shira Calpurnia stuff as a result of this. I'd suggest Farrer to anyone who is looking for a good (non military) read it would seem.

User avatar
Ford Prefect
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 8254
Joined: 2005-05-16 04:08am
Location: The real number domain

Post by Ford Prefect » 2007-10-22 02:56am

Connor MacLeod wrote:"heatseer monocle" being used by a ratskin. They're not just goggles or binoculars anymore. I'm constantly amazed how bloody prevalent night vision gear and sighting equipment like this is.
Compared to a motion-predictor, that sort of stuff is pretty tame, really.
What is Project Zohar?

Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.

User avatar
Connor MacLeod
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 14065
Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
Contact:

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-10-22 03:00am

Auspex or surveyors would be more along the lines of a motion predictor. These are more along the lines of specialized targeting sights and/or just night vision gear for seeing in the dark. Both of which can have their own value (although the scope the Cawdor was wearing also probably could serve as NVG as well as a sigthing instrument.)

User avatar
Ford Prefect
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 8254
Joined: 2005-05-16 04:08am
Location: The real number domain

Post by Ford Prefect » 2007-10-22 03:06am

Connor MacLeod wrote:Auspex or surveyors would be more along the lines of a motion predictor. These are more along the lines of specialized targeting sights and/or just night vision gear for seeing in the dark. Both of which can have their own value (although the scope the Cawdor was wearing also probably could serve as NVG as well as a sigthing instrument.)
No, there really is a sight for mounting on a gun which predicts the motion of a target. It's in the inquisitor book, and (like all gunsights) can be used in bionic eye replacements (and presumably goggles). There are motion detecting auspex units, but it's not quite the same.
What is Project Zohar?

Here's to a certain mostly harmless nutcase.

Post Reply