Tyranids vs Exterminatius

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Ender
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Tyranids vs Exterminatius

Post by Ender » 2007-08-11 01:25am

Codex:Tyranids, page 26-27 wrote: ON THE PHENOMENON OF IMMUNITY TO CERTAIN METHODS OF EXTERMINATUS
Reports have reached the Strategic Collective of a number of instances in which Tyranid bio-forms have, against all previous precedent, survived the Exterminatus of a world targeted by them. Such a claim, taken in isolation, would be rejected as preposterous by cynical Adepts, yet the evidence is plain, and in one case comes directly from Inquisitor Kryptman (see sub file TY/z23/K8836554). There are two reported methods by which Tyranid creatures have survived the destruction of a world. The first, which has been confirmed at Tethris and Caelus Delta and is suspected at Lamarno, is achieved by way of smaller bio-forms, such as Rippers, burrowing deep beneath a world's crust, there to enter a state of hibernation until such time as the presence of life upon the surface is detected. At Tethris, it was the actions of an Adeptus Mechanicus Explorator team that stirred the surviving creatures to action, triggering them to emerge from the desiccated ground and attack. It is not known how the survival of just one component in the hive fleet coud lead to the rise of a force sufficient to retake the world in question but, given past precedent, the Collective are not prepared to reject the notion that such a thing is possible.

The second observed manner in which Tyranid organisms have survived Exterminatius was reported to the Collective following a Deathwatch missionto the world of Ariadine V. Following Exterminatius by way of Damnatus-pattern, mass-yield cyclonic saturation, the surface of the world was reduced to drifting ash, the atmosphere entirely seared away. Yet, the pict-logs of the mission show what was first believed to be a natural rock feature rising out of the swirling dust storms. Closer inspection revealed the truth - the structure was in fact a member of the Carnifax genus, which had survived the cataclysmic effects of the cyclonic torpedo, and entered a state of dormancy within which it could mend the grievous wounds done to it. The moment the creature detected their presence and began to stir, the Killteam called down a melta torpedo strike from teir cruiser in orbit. Though the beast was destroyed, Ariadne V is declared Perditia, for, if one such bio-form can survive, ten how many more may go undetected?

These instances make it clear to the Collective that no consideration should be given to the re-colonization of any world touched by the hive fleets for, even should the ultimate sanction of Exterminatius be enacted, there is sufficient cause to doubt its total effectiveness. All such worlds are to be declared Perditia, on pain of death, to any other then those authorised by this Collective to set foot upon them.
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Invictus ChiKen
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Post by Invictus ChiKen » 2007-08-11 06:13am

Geez as if those bugs weren't wanked enougth!

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Post by Cykeisme » 2007-08-11 06:31am

Does the term "biotech wank" apply to the Tyranids?
Or does the general feel of 40k (a mixture of science- and mystical fiction) allow it?

I'm kinda on the fence, what do you guys think?
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Post by Brother-Captain Gaius » 2007-08-11 06:56am

Cykeisme wrote:Does the term "biotech wank" apply to the Tyranids?
Or does the general feel of 40k (a mixture of science- and mystical fiction) allow it?

I'm kinda on the fence, what do you guys think?
I would argue for the latter. "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war," after all. Anything that increases the violence, inhospitality, and death toll in general is just more 40k.

Bear in mind we're talking about a universe with elves in space, where people are possessed by daemons, and trust in divine (or unholy) power for protection and guidance.

Also note that it does not describe in any detail how or why the Tyranids are able to do what they do. If it truly was wank, there would likely be some Star Trek-esque description of every specific detail of their capabilities, which just isn't very 40k.
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Post by Bob the Gunslinger » 2007-08-11 07:05am

I gather that most of the Tyrannids' abilities come from their hive mind directly manipulating the warp. IE, they're like a giant, psyker-possessed superorganism.

In a universe where Orks can believe that the red ones go faster and thus make it so, the Tyrannids are far more forgivable than some non-warpy biowank. (Not that 40k is free from stupid, ...er stupider, biowank. Megarachnids, anyone?)


Besides, Tyrannid ships are always portrayed as weaker and inferior to IoM ships, and have to rely on their mind-boggling numbers to overwhelm mankind. Not exactly wankery, not when their fleets contain literally the stripped down usable mass of entire galaxies.
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Post by white_rabbit » 2007-08-11 08:52am

All methods of Exterminatus are not made equal.

While I'd certainly not put it past the Nids to survive the "mere" surface scouring Virus bombs and some versions of Cyclonics produce, the other versions which rip huge chunks off the planet, cause extensive and sustained volcanic activity etc are probably sufficient.

But then of course, theres not going to be much colonisation happening any time soon, unless theres some act of plot need to do so.
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Post by Enigma » 2007-08-11 09:39am

Can the Imperium liquify a planet's crust?
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Post by Feil » 2007-08-11 10:37am

Yes. They just usually don't, because worlds amenable to terraforming are comparatively rare, and those the locations of which are known and the warp routes to which are well charted even more so. And other methods are cheaper.

In any case, given what we know about 'nids, anything they can survive, properly-equipped humans could as well. We can burrow deep into Earth's crust (in minutes, in 40k, with the right machine [ref. Eisenhorn]), and the armor we can create is a match for the not-really-chitin of the Tyranids. Batten down the hatches, dig deep, anchor to the bedrock, pile up sandbags, have repair crews standing by, and hope nobody is waiting with a melta bomb when the dust settles.

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Post by white_rabbit » 2007-08-11 10:57am

Feil wrote:Yes. They just usually don't, because worlds amenable to terraforming are comparatively rare, and those the locations of which are known and the warp routes to which are well charted even more so. And other methods are cheaper.

In any case, given what we know about 'nids, anything they can survive, properly-equipped humans could as well. We can burrow deep into Earth's crust (in minutes, in 40k, with the right machine [ref. Eisenhorn]), and the armor we can create is a match for the not-really-chitin of the Tyranids. Batten down the hatches, dig deep, anchor to the bedrock, pile up sandbags, have repair crews standing by, and hope nobody is waiting with a melta bomb when the dust settles.
The Adeptus mechanicus can build "bunkers" which survive even the Tyranids "tyranoforming" and consumption. Sub-crustal facilities/hideyholes etc.
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Post by NecronLord » 2007-08-11 10:58am

It's hardly that wanked out. All it means is that buried things can survive comparatively well. This is hardly that surprising, in the HH books, a considerable number of marines survive an exterminatus attack by being in bunkers. Not all exterminatuses are equal - the most extreme examples, as in Last Stand of the Firebrands actually mass-scatter the affected planets. Some, on the other hand 'merely' kill off life.
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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-08-11 03:44pm

I would like to point out that while not all Exterminatus'es necceesarily involve weapons fire penetrating/striking the crust, extinction or (Sterilization - both events IIRC involved reducing organic matter on the surface to ash, that implies temperatures of 1000+ degrees at least, and the latter incident with the Carnifex involves the atmosphere being blown off, which involves at least e11 megatons of energy injected into a planet. Hell in some novels like Nightbringer cycloncis will vaporize oceans...) and that at least some of that energy will end up heating the crust even assuming a purely "airburst" attack.

In the case of the "burrowing" Tyranids as well as the Carnifex we know cyclonics were involved (an earlier edition of the Codexes indicated that Tethris IIRC was bombarded by cylconics deployed via Cobra destroyers.) so surface/crust penetration was probably unneccessary. Burrowing underground would be some protection, but it also depends on just how deeply underground they buried themselves and how violent the bombardment was. On the other hand, given the purported durability of Tyranid carapace ("anti-armour firepower" has been bandied about in some of the codexes regarding penetrating said carapace.) its not terribly unreasonable to expect the Tyranids to survive proximity to volcano-like conditiions (crustal melting.)

The Carnifex bit is probably also quite impressive, but we don't know for sure how big it is (some Carnifexes are just big bipeds, but some IIRC are as big as Russes or Baneblades, IIRC.) It also depends heavily on its profile - it will only be exposed to a portion of the energy in the atmosphere at any given time, and again, noting the extreme durability of the Tyranid carapace, its not an unreasonable expectation for them to survive "airbursting" type Exterminatus.

It *is* worth noting, however, that early sources did indicate that removing Genestealers from a planet DID require sterilizing it - Tyranids of course are more durable than Genestealers.

As a consequences this does tend to limit the effectiveness of nukes against Tyranids and why "carpet nuking" (a tactic some people have argued would allow modern forces to defeat Tyranids easily) may not work.

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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-08-11 03:48pm

Feil wrote:Yes. They just usually don't, because worlds amenable to terraforming are comparatively rare, and those the locations of which are known and the warp routes to which are well charted even more so. And other methods are cheaper.

In any case, given what we know about 'nids, anything they can survive, properly-equipped humans could as well. We can burrow deep into Earth's crust (in minutes, in 40k, with the right machine [ref. Eisenhorn]), and the armor we can create is a match for the not-really-chitin of the Tyranids. Batten down the hatches, dig deep, anchor to the bedrock, pile up sandbags, have repair crews standing by, and hope nobody is waiting with a melta bomb when the dust settles.
First, I've said it before and I'll say it again: "Fire Warrior's" cutscene at the end is not the best benchmark to go by for brute force firepower. Its not exactly easily or consistently quantified, ,adn there certainly IS no crust melting going on.


Second, your average hive and planetary defenses will extend hundreds if not thousands of meters belowground. In Necropolis one Hive had a minig operation extending a mile under the planet. Caves of Ice IIRC had refinerry operations extending kilometers below the planet (admittedly through ice, but still..)

Two good examples of the ability of 40K planets to "survive" extinction events are Tallarn (which was virus bombed, and they they were still able to inhabit the planet albeit in a limited fashion.) and VAlhalla (a more exteme example - a giant asteroid/comet hit the planet and effectively/literally sterilized nearly 99% of life on the planet, but parts of the human population survived.)

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