Dmitri Donskoi, just your average armored frigate.

[Frank Hipper]

I've loved this ship ever since I laid eyes on a photo of it.

Visual aids

Post-1895 general arrangement drawings

First, some nuts and bolts:

Designed as a long range cruiser of midling fighting potential, she was laid down as a sister ship to Vladimir Monomakh at the New Admiralty yard in St. Peterburg in May of 1881.
Funding cuts meant a halt in construction, during which she was re-designed with two shielded 8 inch guns mounted on the upper deck in sponsons, opposed to to Monomak's four 8 inch in main deck sponsons.
These were also 30 caliber pieces, as opposed to Monomakh's 22 caliber guns; harder hitting and longer ranged.
Her main deck was further altered by incorporating fourteen 6 inch 28 caliber guns.
Light armament comprised six 37mm, and she carried five 15 inch above water torpedo tubes.

Belt armor was basically adequate for a ship of this type and vintage; 4.5-6 inches, closed by 3-4 inch bulkheads.
At 2-3 inches, her deck was in keeping with design practices of the time. She also carried 3-4 inch battery armor.
It was in her internal subdivision where her design exhibited protection scheme weakness.

Overall length was 296 feet, full load displacement was 6200 tons.

With a 900 ton coal capacity, she had a radius of 7000 nautical miles at 10 knots. Top speed was a somewhat leisurely 16+ knots. (some sources say 16.5 kts, others say 16.2)

She was completed in August, 1884; a little over a year after Vladimir Monomakh.

For the first 9 years of her life, Dmitri Donskoi carried a three-masted ship rig; sail power being assumed to be an asset for ship that was intended to operate so far from home and/or reliable refueling stations.

From 1893-95, she recieved a major refit, and was re-armed to carry six 6 inch 45 caliber French Canet guns, and ten Canet 4.7 inch 45s.
Light armament comprised six 47mm and twenty two 37mm.

She also had her sailing rig reduced during this refit, and she recieved three heavy fighting tops.

She was refitted again in 1903, recieving a pilothouse that surrounded (replaced?) her amidships conning tower, and at least one source claims she was again re-armed, with ten 3 inch guns replacing the 4.7s, and further recieving replacement 6 inch pieces.



To Tsushima:
Under Capt. Ivan Lebedev, Dmitri Donskoi sailed with the rest of the Russian Baltic fleet's Second Pacific Squadron in October of 1904.
While the protracted preparations for the fleet's departure were being conducted, Capt. Lebedev took up the life of a party animal, returning to his ship from his nightly hellraising on a scheduled despatch boat (the steamer Dachnik, aka "The Drunken Boat") that didn't leave St. Petersburg for Kronshtadt until 3:00am...

On May 27th, 1905, she and near-sister Monomakh were assigned as escorts to the transport group, and aside from picking up 270 survivors from the battleship Osliabia and destroyer Buini, Donskoi took little part in the day's action.

During the night she became seperated from Vladimir Monomakh (that ship being torpedoed during the Japanese torpedo boat attacks), and the morning of the 28th found her running for Vladivostock...

At 6:00pm of that day, she was sighted south of Matsushima island by Admiral Uriu onboard the cruiser Naniwa; a ship of Donskoi's vintage and speed, but better armed with eight 6 inch guns.
Naniwa was accompanied by her sister ship, Takachiho and several destroyers.
Due to the distance, bearing, and near-equal speeds of these ships, engagement seemed unlikely.

On sighting Donskoi, Uriu signaled the situation to Admiral Togo, who detached the armored cruiser Asama to assist.
Uriu also transmitted to Donskoi repeated appeals to surrender, in vain.

Approximately half an hour after sighting, Uriu noticed Donskoi veer from her previous course to almost due north allowing him to close the distance rapidly; the Russian having sighted the modern protected cruisers Otowa and Niitaka closing on her from out of the west.

Shortly after 7:pm, and at a range of 8000 yards, Otowa opened fire, with Niitaka joining in soon thereafter.
By 7:40, Naniwa and Takachiho had engaged, and Donskoi was recieving heavy fire on either beam, from superior opponents.

By 8:00pm, Otowa and Niitaka had closed the range to 4000 yards, and Naniwa and Takachiho had closed to 3000.
Fires kept breaking out, and the number of survivors rescued the day before crowded her decks, swelling the casualty list; one of those casualties being party going Captain Lebedev.

Despite recieving hits that disabled her steering gear, and damage to her steam pipes that slowed her dramatically, Donskoi maintained her course for Matsushima with the apparent intent to beach herself.

Seeing his quarry in it's death throes, Admiral Uriu decided to cut Donskoi's path of escape off by crossing her "T"; as Naniwa was beginning her turn, a 6 inch shell from Donskoi struck her aft, causing considerable damage and imparting a 7 degree list; Naniwa's participation in the battle was over.

By 8:30pm, with Donskoi in the shadow of Matsushima and the sun setting, the Japanese decided on a torpedo attack by the accompanying destroyer groups, it being too dark for the newly arrived Asama to be of any use.

Donskoi had by that time managed to close the rocks of Matsushima so closely that the torpedo attacks had to be conducted from seaward, without effect.
One destroyer, the Fubuki, managed to close the Russian nearly inshore, but recieved heavy enough defensive fire to withdraw without achieving anything.

At 6:00am on the morning of May 29th, 1905, having landed her surviving crew, and the survivors from Osliabia and Buini, a skeleton crew took the 21 year old armored frigate Dmitri Donskoi out to deep water, and scuttled her with her battle flags flying.

Excluding the desroyers, this ship in her last action was outnumbered 4 to 1, and those four were all superior to her.
Yet she drove off four superior ships intent on destroying her, landed her crew and other ships' survivors she rescued on the 27th, and managed to scuttle herself, denying the Japanese yet another prize.

All nuanced things considered, that's one hell of an accomplishment.

[MKSheppard]

And nobody's replied?

*executes Half of SDN in reprisal*

[Vympel]

Definitely not your average armored frigate- it's a Pr.941U SSBN.

[Sea Skimmer]

Goes to show how tough a warship is, the ship was just new enough to have compound armor, which could give at least some protection against cruiser caliber shellfire in 1905.

Its too bad the Russians didn’t even try to properly employ the few cruisers they had, no attempt at all was made to drive off multiple Japanese cruisers which observed the approach of the fleet to Tsushima. Brining along the 7 knot hospital ship wasn’t too bright either.

[The Dark]

And nobody's replied?

*executes Half of SDN in reprisal*

I had nothing to say without trotting out the USS Olympia, which was Admiral Dewey's flagship at Manila during the Spanish-American War, and is preserved at Philadelphia. The limeys considered her overgunned and overengined, with 4 8" cannon in turrets and 10 5" guns, with a top speed just under 22 knots. No armor belt, but 4 3/4" of armor over the machinery and vitals, plus coal bunkers around the armor to absorb fire. To provide a link to the Russian side, Olympia is from the same generation as Aurora, although about 5 years older. The American ship was slightly smaller, but faster, and carried fewer but bigger guns (4x8" and 10x5" versus 8x6" and 24x3"). The only older museum ships than Olympia that I know of are Huascar, Warrior, Constitution, Victory, and Vasa.

[Stuart]

The only older museum ships than Olympia that I know of are Huascar, Warrior, Constitution, Victory, and Vasa.

There's Mary Rose in the U.K. as well. The last I saw of her, she's in a special treatement facility where her timbers are being impregnated with something or other to prevent them rotiing on contact with air. About 2/3 of her hull is in there.

[Dartzap]

The only older museum ships than Olympia that I know of are Huascar, Warrior, Constitution, Victory, and Vasa.

There's Mary Rose in the U.K. as well. The last I saw of her, she's in a special treatement facility where her timbers are being impregnated with something or other to prevent them rotiing on contact with air. About 2/3 of her hull is in there.

Quite true, she's down in Portsmouth in a shed.

[Mange]

Very interesting... However, it seems as if there's something wrong with the second link (Post-1895 general arrangement drawings), I ended up at a Russian search engine.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Goes to show how tough a warship is, the ship was just new enough to have compound armor, which could give at least some protection against cruiser caliber shellfire in 1905.

Its too bad the Russians didn’t even try to properly employ the few cruisers they had, no attempt at all was made to drive off multiple Japanese cruisers which observed the approach of the fleet to Tsushima. Brining along the 7 knot hospital ship wasn’t too bright either.

The entire battle was a blunder from the start.. what with extraordinary long sea voyage.

They did however learn enough lessons later to give the Turks some trouble I think.

[Frank Hipper]

Goes to show how tough a warship is, the ship was just new enough to have compound armor, which could give at least some protection against cruiser caliber shellfire in 1905.

Its too bad the Russians didn’t even try to properly employ the few cruisers they had, no attempt at all was made to drive off multiple Japanese cruisers which observed the approach of the fleet to Tsushima. Brining along the 7 knot hospital ship wasn’t too bright either.

It's interesting to me that Izumrud was the only ship to escape entrapment the next day; in 1905 it was one of, if not the best of it's type in the world...I wouldn't have expected Izumrud or Jhemtchug to achieve too awful much against those old armored cruisers of the 5th Division in the initial Japanese approach, but Nebogotov's division certainly could have, in conjunction with a cruiser thrust.

[The Dark]

The only older museum ships than Olympia that I know of are Huascar, Warrior, Constitution, Victory, and Vasa.

There's Mary Rose in the U.K. as well. The last I saw of her, she's in a special treatement facility where her timbers are being impregnated with something or other to prevent them rotiing on contact with air. About 2/3 of her hull is in there.

Ah, true. I hadn't counted ships currently undergoing conservation, which would add Mary Rose and Monitor, and possibly a few others I'm not totally familiar with.

[Frank Hipper]

How about Khufu's ship?

Complete, and just about as old as it gets for ships.

There's also the Oseberg and Gokstad viking ships, not to mention the entire collection of the Viking Ship Museum at Roskilde in Denmark.

(EDIT) Don't forget the Bremen cog of 1380 in Bremerhaven, too.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Austro-Hungarian Danube river monitor Leitha, Frigate USS Constellation, Turret Ram HNLMS Buffel, Netherlands; Schorpioen, sister ship to Buffel, HNLMS Bonaire, steam frigate of the Netherlands, 1850-vintage Prussian submarine Brandtaucher (it was used in action, even if it didn't actually attack anyone), if you can count Mary Rose and Vasa you can damn well count the USS Cairo, Danish screw-frigate Jylland, frigate HMS Trincomalee, and the Swedish coastal monitor Sölve.

In addition to those already listed, of course.


EDIT: These are only Museum War Ships older than Olympia.

[Sea Skimmer]

EDIT: These are only Museum War Ships older than Olympia.

You forgot the very well preserved Huáscar, down in Chile.

The entire battle was a blunder from the start.. what with extraordinary long sea voyage. They did however learn enough lessons later to give the Turks some trouble I think.

Yup, the Russians should have never split their main fleet to start with. By 1906 or so they would have been able to field 15-16 modern battleships in a single force plus close to a dozen armored cruisers, far too much for Japan to overwhelm.

The Russian Black Sea Fleet was always more competent then the Baltic Fleet. Some of this was because the Baltic Fleet had sent away its best men and officers with the first pacific squadron; some of it was because with its base right at the Russian capital, it was a prime place for inept political officers to be assigned. The more remote Black Sea Fleet was able to maintain higher standards.

It's interesting to me that Izumrud was the only ship to escape entrapment the next day; in 1905 it was one of, if not the best of it's type in the world...I wouldn't have expected Izumrud or Jhemtchug to achieve too awful much against those old armored cruisers of the 5th Division in the initial Japanese approach, but Nebogotov's division certainly could have, in conjunction with a cruiser thrust.

On paper those two Russian ships would have had a significant speed advantage over all but two or three Japanese cruisers, which are still slower but not enough to matter. I suspect this, plus the cruisers small size helped them escape. No doubt they could not make full speed owing to growths on the hull, but I doubt the Japanese ships could make full speed either, given their constant hard war use.

Firepower wise they don’t stand up to much of anything with 6 x 120mm, even the weakest Japanese protected cruisers are far substantially more heavily armed. That’s the price of speed in a pre turbine warship.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Huascar had already been mentioned in one of the earlier posts I was amending, I believe.

[Frank Hipper]

Not that it *substantially* changes things, but the Izumrud class carried eight 4.7 inch during their entire careers.

The design was altered during construction to place the amidships 47mm mounts on the after bridge wings, with 4.7 inch guns in their former position.