40K speeds ('Minor' spoilers, Flight of the Eisenstien)

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40K speeds ('Minor' spoilers, Flight of the Eisenstien)

Post by NecronLord » 2007-02-27 03:05am

Reading Flight of the Eisenstien (Very good, by the way) it has a few scenes involving Rogal Dorn's fortress monastery.
Finally the predator ships of the war-fleet parted to allow their the largest of their number to face the Eisenstien. If the frigate was a fox to the wolves of the battleships, then it became no more than an insect before a colossus. There were moons that massed less than the giant. It was the clenched hand of a god carved from dark asteroid stone, a nickel-iron behemoth pocked with craters and spiked with broad towers that jutted from its surface.
At a great distance the vessel would have resembled the head of a mace, filigreed with gold and black iron. At close range, a city’s worth of spires and gantries reached out, many of them glowing with the light of thousands of windows, others concealing nests of weapons capable of killing a continent.
Dorn hauls ass back to Earth.
Several light minutes inside the orbit of Eri, the Phalanx exploded from a warp gate with violent concussion, sending sheets of exotic lightning radiating out and away into the void. Delicate sensory devices dotting the surface of the tenth planet registered the new arrival and immediately communicated reports to relay stations on Pluto and Uranus, where in turn they would be sent onward by astropath to Terra and her dominions. The return of the Imperial Fists to humanity’s cradle was long overdue. By rights there should have been celebrations and great ceremony on many of the outer colonies of the solar system to mark it. Instead, the Phalanx came in with speed and ruthless purpouse, not in a stately cruise around the solar system’s outlying worlds.

The mammoth craft did not fly the pennants and banners associated with the triumphant arrival of a heroic vessel. Instead, the colour on her masts and the laser lamps about the Phanalx’s circumfrence were lit for urgency. Patrol ships made way, no captain daring to challenge the Master of the Imperial Fists for his haste. Drives flaring like captured stars, the fortress-vessel passed in through the ragged edge of the Oort Cloud at three-quarters the speed of light, down into the place of the ecliptic, crossing the orbit of Neptune in a flicker of dazzling radiation.

Obviously, given the positioning of Eris, this isn’t the Oort cloud. Presumably the writer means the Kuiper Belt.

Anyway; Let’s assume that the Phalanx started out at .75 C when it reverted, and decelerated hard all the way to Terra.

Eris’ Aphelion: 97.56 AU
Eris’ Perihelion: 37.77 AU

As there’s no way to tell which side of the sun the Earth was on at the time, we’ll use those figures. Now, I won’t present working unless someone really wants it, as my math sucks, and it’s easier to use calculators anyway. But, 300 Gs acceleration brings one up to just under .75C over a distance of 97.5 AU – this can be regarded as a lower limit (800 Gs does about the same of the perihelion distance) for the acceleration of a large, and going by the statistics usually published for large things like that, very slow, spacecraft.
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Post by Dartzap » 2007-02-27 11:47am

*waves fist at NL* BASTARD! It's not meant to be out until the 5th!:P

So, is it actually any good? The authors previous works have been...unreadable.
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Post by white_rabbit » 2007-02-27 12:19pm

Dartzap wrote:*waves fist at NL* BASTARD! It's not meant to be out until the 5th!:P

So, is it actually any good? The authors previous works have been...unreadable.
If you are waving your fist at him, you'd probably be pissed to hear that I got it almost a fortnight ago :lol:


Flight of the Eisenstein IMO is better than Galaxy in Flames, and has probably done the best out of any of the previous novels at incorporating the older mythology while creating a "new" story.

I'd hate to think what the worst parts of Barbarus are like, given Mortarians penchant for using samples of its less toxic regions as anti-personnel grenades.

Great book all in all.
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Post by Xon » 2007-02-27 12:32pm

This will make a nice counter point to those wierd people who think IOM ships pull +10 kilogees
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Post by Teleros » 2007-02-27 02:02pm

On the other hand, we are talking about a mobile battle station rather than a proper ship ;) . Just something to consider...

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Post by NecronLord » 2007-02-27 02:50pm

Xon wrote:This will make a nice counter point to those wierd people who think IOM ships pull +10 kilogees
Not really. A Fortress Monastery like Phalanx is pretty much immobile by tactical standards.
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Post by 18-Till-I-Die » 2007-02-27 02:54pm

if i understand the quote, this thing is very big. Bigger than a small moon, maybe larger by some measure than the deminutive moons of Mars. This alone means that it most certainly masses more than any IoM battleship.

The fact that it can accelerate at such speeds, to my mind, indicates some very, very powerful engines that would allow a smaller vessel (such as a battleship) to move far faster.

Mind you this is just a layman's take on it, i'm not particularly sure on any of it.
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Post by white_rabbit » 2007-02-27 03:04pm

Speaking of Moons, while Luna hasn't got the giant supergun everyone rants about, it does have a Ring-station, and is apparently hollowed out as a shipyard.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar » 2007-02-27 04:15pm

white_rabbit wrote:Speaking of Moons, while Luna hasn't got the giant supergun everyone rants about, it does have a Ring-station, and is apparently hollowed out as a shipyard.
Like in the SST movie? Would make a good defence system and dockyard anyway.

Accelerating a moon sized object at 800 gees, aside from being phenomenal, is also a good indicator of just how good something smaller may be with a fraction of that thrust.

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Post by Teleros » 2007-02-27 04:23pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Accelerating a moon sized object at 800 gees, aside from being phenomenal, is also a good indicator of just how good something smaller may be with a fraction of that thrust.
Not to mention with materials better able to handle the stresses involved than a converted nickel-iron asteroid.

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Post by white_rabbit » 2007-02-27 05:10pm


Like in the SST movie? Would make a good defence system and dockyard anyway.

Yep, its basically a smaller version of the naval Station around Hydraphur.
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Post by 18-Till-I-Die » 2007-02-27 05:10pm

Teleros wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Accelerating a moon sized object at 800 gees, aside from being phenomenal, is also a good indicator of just how good something smaller may be with a fraction of that thrust.
Not to mention with materials better able to handle the stresses involved than a converted nickel-iron asteroid.
Yeah thats what i was saying. While THIS thing, which is huge even by the gigantism-obsessed Imperium's standards, may be slow as shit something far smaller and with a similar drive system would i imagine be significantly faster.
It seemed to me, anyway, that if they can move something that is at the very least as big as a Martian moon (the description implies far larger) at such accelerations than something smaller (virtually every ship in 40k save for a Craftworld basically) could do better, having less mass and requiring less energy to generate the thrust.
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Post by Falkenhayn » 2007-02-27 10:38pm

Any mention of armor plating for Terra, Luna, or any of the other bodies in our solar system that exist in "modern" 40k?

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Post by The Grim Squeaker » 2007-02-28 01:29am

white_rabbit wrote:Speaking of Moons, while Luna hasn't got the giant supergun everyone rants about, it does have a Ring-station, and is apparently hollowed out as a shipyard.
Which is such an excellent example for how it might be after 10,000 years of fortifications and the IoM putting a massive proportional amount of resources into arming and armoring Sol :P .

Also I'll second the question:
Falkenhayn wrote:Any mention of armor plating for Terra, Luna, or any of the other bodies in our solar system that exist in "modern" 40k?
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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-02-28 01:45am

NecronLord wrote:
Xon wrote:This will make a nice counter point to those wierd people who think IOM ships pull +10 kilogees
Not really. A Fortress Monastery like Phalanx is pretty much immobile by tactical standards.
There are faster speeds (one of the bits in Eisenhorn when I was skimming suggests that a rogue Trader vessel IIRC covered the distance between a habitable planet and the warp jump-point at the edge of a system in a couple of hours.)

However, it is worth noting that there ARE lesser calcs (alot of them tend to be from earlier sources, but not all.) but that its not neccesarily contradictory. As you note, bigger vessels ar eof course slower, but 40K ships tend to vary dramatically in designs, modification, current condition/wear and tear, and sometimes even technology. So you probably can HAVE very fast ships (like Sabbat Martyr's frigates) but also have very slow ships (ships from Draco, or Eye of Terror.) Its not as if "very powerful" and "less powerful" technologies haven't been combined by the Imperium into a single package before..

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Post by FireNexus » 2007-03-03 01:59pm

I might be reading this wrong, but don't those calculations indicate only that it would require at least 300 Gs of thrust to accelerate to .75c? People are taking this to mean that that's all they can do. Or am I misinterpreting? Because I take this to mean they popped out of the warp gate at three quarters light speed, rather than sped up to it. Plus the verse indicates they were still accelerating rather than braking, so their acceleration/deceleration capability should be proportionately higher.
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Post by NecronLord » 2007-03-03 05:54pm

FireNexus wrote:I might be reading this wrong, but don't those calculations indicate only that it would require at least 300 Gs of thrust to accelerate to .75c?
To decellerate from .75c over the maximum distance to Eris, yes. That's by no means a maximum.
People are taking this to mean that that's all they can do. Or am I misinterpreting? Because I take this to mean they popped out of the warp gate at three quarters light speed, rather than sped up to it. Plus the verse indicates they were still accelerating rather than braking, so their acceleration/deceleration capability should be proportionately higher.
Correct.

If Eris was at Aphelion, and the midpoint speed was .75C, the accelleration would need to be around 640 gravities. If it was at perihelion, it would be around 1,700 gravities.
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