Prison Rape

[Darth Wong]

Many people (myself included) have either jokes about prison rape or viewed it as a component of retributive justice in the past. But does it really make sense for the authorities to have a "look the other way" policy on prison rape?

Think about it: who do you think generally gets raped in prison? The worst criminals, or the weakest ones? The most violent, dangerous criminals are not the rape victims in prison; they are the rapists. And as much as we may enjoy the idea of a weasely little scum like Jeffrey Dahmer getting raped in prison, what about the fact that most of the victims of prison rape tend to be weak young men in there on minor property crimes?

And what about these rapists? If someone continually commits rape in the prison environment, do we really want to ever let this person back out into society?

[Admiral Valdemar]

I'd say the obvious answer is no, it shouldn't be tolerated and no, we shouldn't let anyone with such tendencies out in public. The whole idea of prison, flawed as the system be, is rehabilitation. One cannot rehabilitate a guy getting penetrated daily much to the detriment of his mental health (and sphincter).

Likewise, someone who enjoys such power plays is not the kind of person you invite to a tea party and ask to look after your kids.

Now I'm sure the US' amazing prison rehab story is remarkable in its success (so much so, the UK has taken the same model), but really, do we want to carry on with the current trend of letting thems nasty criminals tread over each other because they were bad in society?

I think not.

[Broomstick]

Many people (myself included) have either jokes about prison rape or viewed it as a component of retributive justice in the past. But does it really make sense for the authorities to have a "look the other way" policy on prison rape?

Of course we shouldn't tolerate rape in prison. Here are some reasons

1) Rape is a crime. It doesn't matter where or when or how it occurs, it's a crime. Being in prison is not a license to continue to commit criminal acts, and indeed, a prisoner can be tried and convicted for breaking the law while behind bars.

2) If we're ever going to let a person out - and even death or life sentences have been known to be commuted - it does no good to have someone warped and traumatized needlessly.

3) It just makes the prison environment more dangerous to both inmates and jailers to permit breaking of rules and laws.

4) It costs money - STD's ranging from benign to lethal can and are spread by prison sex of all sorts, including rape. Permitting rape means more people needing treatment for gonerrhea, syphillis, HIV, and so on.

So, lets see - we have reasons falling under law-and-order, humanitarianism, safety, medical, and fiscal categories.

No, rape in prison should not be tolerated.

[salm]

If you are of the stone cold faction and think that we should make the bad guys time in prison as miserable as possible you remember that some other bad guy will derive pleasure from the rape.

[Solauren]

No, it should not be tolerated.

That's why I'm in favor of locking away some offenders in solitary, permanently.

[drachefly]

Or, you know, having good enough surveillance that these things can't be gotten away-with. If they did it, they're not in solitary; but they can be put there.

[Mr. T]

It definitely shouldn't be tolerated. I'd be interested to know the frequency with which these things occur if theres every been any sort of study on it. I really can't imagine how permanent mental scarring for the victims will turn them in to better people when they get out of prison.

The only prisoners that might possibly be bad enough to deserve that kind of disgusting treatment are probably in solitary confinement for there crime and never experience it anyway.

As for why there's been no huge public outcry, I don't think its necessarily because people think they deserve it. It might have to do more with the fact that aside from tons of pop culture jokes about prison rape, I know that I very rarely if ever hear in the news about rapes that occur in prison and so it's easy to chalk up these rapes to urban legends, or at least "out of sight, out of mind".

[Uraniun235]

Prison rape is no more acceptable than torture as a punishment. Even if the victim was convicted of heinous crimes, there is still the unacceptable risk that the victim was in fact falsely convicted.

[Diomedes]

It's long seemed ironic the way that the torture debate is taken seriously regarding "terrorists" and the like when torture is already so widespread in prisons.

Rape as a disciplinary tactic

For kicking a female guard:

Dillard was transferred to the cell of Wayne Robertson, better known as the "Booty Bandit." For a time, his vocation was beating, torturing and sodomizing fellow inmates while prison guards looked the other way. This psychopathic serial rapist was the guards' resident enforcer, one whose specialty was reining in abrasive young toughs.

A young political activist's punishment:

"I was put in a gorilla cage. That's a cell organized by guards for a 'turning out party,'" says Cahill. "They told everyone I was a child molester." Six of Cahill's 30 cellmates beat, tortured and raped him for two days. And like thousands of other survivors, his life was never the same.

A well known example of the horror that a victim's warped mind can unleash upon society once released:

Victims of prison rape often turn their anger against innocents when they are set free. John William King -- the young white supremacist who dragged African-American James Byrd to death in Jasper, Texas, in 1998 -- is one such case. King was an ex-con; he'd served 21 months for burglary in the Beto Unit, the toughest joint in Texas. Shortly after arriving in prison, King -- then 5-foot-7 and 140 pounds -- was attacked by black prisoners and raped, according to his attorneys. He emerged from the dungeon transformed.

In prison, many are forced to choose between being a "punk", and either being repeatedly gang-raped or choosing one strong prisoner to service in exchange for protection, or they themselves must kill their attackers, establish "manhood" through murder or rape for their own survival.

[Companion Cube]

I'd never given any real thought to the matter, which is bizarre considering how much of a staple of internet humour it is. That article Diomedes posted was definately an eye-opener:

The transformation from convict to "punk" usually begins in one of two ways. A younger inmate might be taken under the wing of an older inmate; once debt and dependence are established the older inmate will rape and "turn out" the young prisoner.

Alternatively, a gang of inmates may attack a weaker prisoner with overwhelming numbers and "punk" their prey. Once the victim has been "turned out," the aggressors announce their control to the general population, which in turn cements the deal through its tacit or active approval of the victim's new status. The freshly minted punk will find himself vulnerable to assault from all sides, as the prison grapevine informs everyone of his subordinate status. In the interests of survival, the targeted prisoner will usually choose one inmate as his "daddy" or "husband." In exchange for control of the punk, the "man" offers protection against other aggressors.

Although the "daddies" have sex with other men, they are, in the hyper-macho cosmology of prison, not homosexual -- because they are not sexually penetrated themselves. The cult of manhood -- and the struggle to defend, defile and define it -- is the axis around which the prison sex system turns.

The prison world's other subordinate "gender" is the "queens" -- transsexuals and cross-dressers who may embrace homosexual sex and a sexually submissive position in the prison hierarchy. Queens suffer sexual assault, but often they use their sexual powers and feminine charms to play stronger inmates off one another or to find a husband of their own liking.

[Dominus Atheos]

Victims of prison rape often turn their anger against innocents when they are set free. John William King -- the young white supremacist who dragged African-American James Byrd to death in Jasper, Texas, in 1998 -- is one such case. King was an ex-con; he'd served 21 months for burglary in the Beto Unit, the toughest joint in Texas. Shortly after arriving in prison, King -- then 5-foot-7 and 140 pounds -- was attacked by black prisoners and raped, according to his attorneys. He emerged from the dungeon transformed.

What about child molesters? Everyone always says that child molesters can't be rehabilitated (BTW, does anyone have any statistics on that?), but I wonder if that's because of what happens to them in prison.

[Admiral Valdemar]

What about child molesters? Everyone always says that child molesters can't be rehabilitated (BTW, does anyone have any statistics on that?), but I wonder if that's because of what happens to them in prison.

Without any real study it's hard to say. I don't expect this treatment would help anyone, least of all paedophiles. Prison is meant to restrict your freedom, but also rehabilitate you so you can become productive again (else we may as well just execute everyone and be done with it). Whether those who mess with children are beyond all hope or not is debatable, though I expect that can be applied to any offender such as serial rapists or burglars.

Human psychology is just too complex to gauge it with any real precision right now.

[Frank Hipper]

I've known a former prison guard, and two ex-cons.

The prison guard laughingly admitted to turning the other way while an 18 y.o. was raped in his presence, and mocked him for the way he screamed.
This piece of shit was a shop supervisor where I worked many years ago, and when he said "This isn't the way we did things in prison" once too many times, everyone in the shop locked their toolboxes and walked out on his shitty, worthless ass.

One of the ex-cons said that he never witnessed actual rape, but did witness consensual sex.

The other con, who was 18 when convicted, said that prison ruined him, but that he never witnessed any rapes.

I have some pretty serious doubts as to how common prison rape is compared to public perceptions; but no matter if it happens in one prison, once a year, or is an everyday occurance in every prison, it should not be tolerated, joked about, or dismissed.
Public attitudes about the nature of prison, the level of abuse in prisons and why it "doesn't matter" make me want to fucking puke sometimes.

[Fleet Admiral JD]

Byron Hadley had an interesting take on this. If you're interested, that entire site makes for great reading.

[Oddysseus]

Glad to see this converation.

I have to say that I have been long wondering why rape in prison was somehow a punchline in TV and casual talk.

Do you think that the public, in general, just accepts rape happens in prisons think about it beyond that? "What can you do?"

Or, do many people think it is "what's deserved"?

Or, something else?

[Darth Wong]

I think the widespread acceptance of prison rape is due to the black and white view of the world that people tend to jump to if they don't sit down and really contemplate things. It's very facile thinking, hence it takes a certain amount of effort to overcome it, and let's face it: the average person will not put in such effort.

This has always been the problem with any kind of "complicated" social argument. Politically, it tends to lose to something you can summarize in a 5 second soundbite. So a careful explanation of why prison rape is unacceptable will never resonate as strongly with the public as "They're criminals. They deserve it." Or better yet, "They did the crime, they can do the time". That one rhymes, which means it is twice as logical in their eyes.

[Rye]

I just know that if I ended up in prison, I'd probably get raped. I don't want that. I have a plan that if I ever REALLY fuck up and end up going to prison, I'm going to grow a huge fuckoff beard and dreadlock my hair. I've known a few people that have just got out of prison, I wouldn't wish rape on any of them. They're still people, and it's not right just because they've been shut away for a few years to get raped. I mean, think about it, if people get HIV from getting raped, you're giving them a life sentence. I mean, what if a guy is in there for torching his own house in an insurance scam? Sure, he's not the best person in the world, but rape? AIDS? No fucking way is that right.

[Darth Wong]

Perhaps more to the point, if rape is an acceptable punishment for criminals, then we should be honest with ourselves and allow that to be a formal sentence in a court of law. "Mr. Smith, for the crime of drug possession, I sentence you to a severe violent beating and gang rape, in addition to 5 years imprisonment".

[Johonebesus]

For those that say prison is about rehabilitation, well, not in the U.S. For most folks prison is exclusively about punishment. Many politicians openly laugh at the idea of rehabilitating criminals, even as a secondary purpose. Liberalism has been so demonized that it is almost political suicide to offer any suggestion that can in any way be conceived as soft on crime. Politicians usually suffer badly when they voice any concerns over prison conditions at all. I'd like to hear someone frame it this way: "if a nineteen year old kid gets sent to prison for a couple of years for petty theft, then moves into your neighborhood, would you rather he be more or less psychologically stable after his prison experience?"

[General Brock]

There are organizations like Stop Prison Rape and ongoing efforts to make prison rape illegal.

Human rights watch put out a report on male rape in U.S. prisons. A lot of victims are not the worst offenders, but in for minor offenses. In other cases, the guards are part of the problem.

Its pretty obvious something is wrong when criminal enterprises can be run from behind bars; the individual inmate need for 'protection' probably aids and abets this more so than any desire for things like illicit drugs.

The problem is warehousing criminals in conditions just a step above a dog kennel. Heck, in Humane Society kennels there is no 'general population'; each dog has a separate cage to avoid bullying and fights. Some of the newer privately run prisons in the U.S. have done away with the 'general population' idea entirely, which makes sense. If you want to rehabilitiate and resocialize criminals, they should not be kept in a dysfunctional social environment. It would also severely curtail hardcore criminals from making touble; if potential victims can stay away from them, they can't start anything.

A high-risk offender like Paul Bernardo can get the best treatment; it is so obvious he would die in gen pop that it would be murder to keep him there. He is kept in an isolated cell by himself; any psychological counseling he receives will not be undermined by cell mates. The only problem is, that is all wasted on a psychopath like him. The people who do need that kind of coddling will never receive it.

Prison guards aren't necessarily to blame either; individuals walk into a bad job, and they are left with the mess; they can either quit the corrupt environment, or go along with it, but being the whistleblower isn't healthy.

When they are released, many are either too broken to do society much good as a 'rehabilitated' person, or more nihilistic and dangerous than ever before, resolved that civility is a lie and determined to not get caught again.

It seems to be a deliberate negligence on the part of those in the know; most ordinary people think criminals are being reformed, when just the opposite happens; they are made sicker than before.

[Death from the Sea]

technically being raped in prison is illegal. The penal code does not specify that if the victim is an inmate at a department of corrections that the crime is negated. But it is just not enforced, which is the problem.

[Zed Snardbody]

Victims of prison rape often turn their anger against innocents when they are set free. John William King -- the young white supremacist who dragged African-American James Byrd to death in Jasper, Texas, in 1998 -- is one such case. King was an ex-con; he'd served 21 months for burglary in the Beto Unit, the toughest joint in Texas. Shortly after arriving in prison, King -- then 5-foot-7 and 140 pounds -- was attacked by black prisoners and raped, according to his attorneys. He emerged from the dungeon transformed.

What about child molesters? Everyone always says that child molesters can't be rehabilitated (BTW, does anyone have any statistics on that?), but I wonder if that's because of what happens to them in prison.

This is a bit out of date, 1994, but its what I could find right off.

# An estimated 24% of those serving time for rape and 19% of those serving time for sexual assault had been on probation or parole at the time of the offense for which they were in State prison in 1991.
# Of the 9,691 male sex offenders released from prisons in 15 States in 1994, 5.3% were rearrested for a new sex crime within 3 years of release.
# Of released sex offenders who allegedly committed another sex crime, 40% perpetrated the new offense within a year or less from their prison discharge.

Approximately 4,300 child molesters were released from prisons in 15 States in 1994. An estimated 3.3% of these 4,300 were rearrested for another sex crime against a child within 3 years of release from prison.

* About 4 in 10 inmates serving time in jail for intimate violence had a criminal justice status -- on probation or parole or under a restraining order -- at the time of the violent attack on an intimate.
* About 1 in 4 convicted violent offenders confined in local jails had committed their crime against an intimate; about 7% of State prisoners serving time for violence had an intimate victim.
* About half of all offenders convicted of intimate violence and confined in a local jail or a State prison had been drinking at the time of the offense. Jail inmates who had been drinking prior to the intimate violence consumed an average amount of ethanol equivalent to 10 beers.
* About 8 in 10 inmates serving time in State prison for intimate violence had injured or killed their victim.

The preceding was pulled from the Bureau of Justice Statistics, from the US Department of Justice

[Zed Snardbody]

Myth:
"Most sex offenders reoffend."

Fact:
Reconviction data suggest that this is not the case. Further, reoffense rates vary among different types of sex offenders and are related to specific characteristics of the offender and the offense.

Persons who commit sex offenses are not a homogeneous group, but instead fall into several different categories. As a result, research has identified significant differences in reoffense patterns from one category to another. Looking at reconviction rates alone, one large-scale analysis (Hanson and Bussiere, 1998) reported the following differences:

# child molesters had a 13% reconviction rate for sexual offenses and a 37% reconviction rate for new, non-sex offenses over a five year period; and
# rapists had a 19% reconviction rate for sexual offenses and a 46% reconviction rate for new, non-sexual offenses over a five year period.

Another study found reconviction rates for child molesters to be 20% and for rapists to be approximately 23% (Quinsey, Rice, and Harris, 1995).

Individual characteristics of the crimes further distinguish recidivism rates. For instance, victim gender and relation to the offender have been found to impact recidivism rates. In a 1995 study, researchers found that offenders who had extrafamilial female victims had a recidivism rate of 18% and those who had extrafamilial male victims recidivated at a rate of 35%. This same study found a recidivism rate for incest offenders to be approximately 9% (Quinsey, Rice, and Harris, 1995).

It is noteworthy that recidivism rates for sex offenders are lower than for the general criminal population. For example, one study of 108,580 non-sex criminals released from prisons in 11 states in 1983 found that nearly 63% were rearrested for a non-sexual felony or serious misdemeanor within three years of their release from incarceration; 47% were reconvicted; and 41% were ultimately returned to prison or jail (Bureau of Justice Statistics).

It is important to note that not all sex crimes are solved or result in arrest and only a fraction of sex offenses are reported to police. The reliance on measures of recidivism as reflected through official criminal justice system data (i.e., rearrest or reconviction rates) obviously omits offenses that are not cleared through an arrest (and thereby cannot be attributed to any individual offender) or those that are never reported to the police. For a variety of reasons, many victims of sexual assault are reluctant to invoke the criminal justice process and do not report their victimization to the police. For these reasons, relying on rearrest and reconviction data underestimates actual reoffense numbers.

Link

[Durandal]

Prisons are a very complicated environment. For many of them, they're not even prisons for gang bangers. They're just another turf, and they can still get what they want. In a prison that's ruled by gangs, corrections officers look the other way out of fear of retaliation from the bangers already locked up. It's a situation that could only be resolved by basically denying all inmates any contact with the outside world.

[Coyote]

There are a lot of prison guards in my Reserve unit; there are two medium-security facilities near Boise, one private, one state. I've also known a few people who were inmates at various times.

They all said the same thing-- concensual sex was rampant, but actual rape, as in beat 'em to the floor and violently fuck them, was almost unheard of. When it did happen, it was to people who were serious hard-core rats, snitches, and similar types, as well as child molesters.

However, how much of that "concensual sex" was coerced or done for "benefits" (protection) was probably not quantifiable just from passive observation.