And what color is the sky in your world Dick?

[Azazal]

Cheney has lost it, again

Vice President Dick Cheney on Wednesday dismissed as "hogwash" the suggestion that blunders may have hurt the administration's credibility on Iraq and led members of Congress on both sides of the aisle to question President Bush's plan to send more troops to Baghdad.

In an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, conducted a day after Bush delivered his State of the Union address, Cheney was asked to respond to some Republicans in Congress who "are now seriously questioning your credibility, because of the blunders and the failures."

To that, Cheney answered, "Wolf, Wolf, I simply don't accept the premise of your question. I just think it's hogwash."

Cheney said the administration is committed to moving ahead with its plan to send more troops to Baghdad, even if Congress passes a resolution in opposition. (Read a transcript of the interview PDF)

"It won't stop us," he said. "And it would be, I think, detrimental from the standpoint of the troops."

If U.S. forces were to pull out of Iraq, "we would simply validate the terrorists' strategy that says the Americans will not stay to complete the task ... that we don't have the stomach for the fight. That's the biggest threat."

He added, "The notion that somehow the effort hasn't been worth it, or that we shouldn't go ahead and complete the task, is just dead wrong."

Cheney said the U.S.-led ouster of Saddam Hussein was the right move. (Watch Cheney tell why the war is a success Video)

"The world is much safer today because of it," Cheney said.

"There have been three national elections in Iraq. There's a democracy established there, a constitution, a new democratically elected government.

"Saddam has been brought to justice and executed, his sons are dead, his government is gone. And the world is better off for it," he said.

I'm guessing that between the heart meds, the rose color glasses and god knows what else, old Dick C is out of touch with reality and just confirmed it once more.

Public opinion, who needs that? Iraq is stable, really, why before the US was there, there were dozens of car bombing a day... oh wait. And I wonder how he would take it some how he, Wunder-Chimp and crew were brought to trial ala Saddam and his cronies.

[wautd]

Wow...

[Darth Wong]

Dick Cheney is simply rattling off checkmarks on the Bush Administration's "to do" list in Iraq, without accounting for the unexpected side-effects of that checklist. It reminds me of the old joke line about the incompetent doctor: "The surgery was a complete success, but the patient died."

[K. A. Pital]

We Russkies have the same joke, albeit IMHO in a more brutal and funny manner.

"During the autopsy we found out that the patient died from autopsy".

Looks like Iraq might just be the joke come true for Lil' Dick.

[Praxis]

Why is it that it is automatically assumed everyone will be better off with a democracy under any conditions, no matter how many deaths it will take to implement it?

That is, why is "they had elections!!!1" a means of validating the whole thing?

[The Spartan]

Why is it that it is automatically assumed everyone will be better off with a democracy under any conditions, no matter how many deaths it will take to implement it?

That is, why is "they had elections!!!1" a means of validating the whole thing?

I suspect it's evolved out of America's past, the whole "Give me liberty or give me death" creed. What many, I would say most, Americans forget is that you need physical security before you can start worrying about freedom. If all you're concerned about is living to see tomorrow, being able to vote for who's not going to protect you is sort of low on the totem pole of Shit-I'm-Going-To-Worry-About.

[Covenant]

Why is it that it is automatically assumed everyone will be better off with a democracy under any conditions, no matter how many deaths it will take to implement it?

That is, why is "they had elections!!!1" a means of validating the whole thing?

I suspect it's evolved out of America's past, the whole "Give me liberty or give me death" creed. What many, I would say most, Americans forget is that you need physical security before you can start worrying about freedom. If all you're concerned about is living to see tomorrow, being able to vote for who's not going to protect you is sort of low on the totem pole of Shit-I'm-Going-To-Worry-About.

I think it actually was more likely a 1950's response to Communism, where America, Democracy and God got wrapped up in the Flag as the last good thing on Earth and were used to fight those bad Russians and them bad Chinese to stop the dominos from falling.

We did the most ridiculous, most absurd things during that era. If you look back at all the nonsense that happened during that era, you can basically trace all the big problems America has to all the idiocy it inflicted on the rest of the globe during the Red Scare years. We fucked over South America and started arming people in the Middle East we didn't really trust, and things went downhill from there. From Osama to Hussein, these are all people we've had past dealings with as a nation. Things like the Berlin Airlift and other pre-moron years seemed to all work out well. I can't really recall many huge issues before then, save for the Phillipines. Shadows of the Imperialism stage, I suppose.

America always does poorly when it imposes it's worldview on others. The nations that are suited for Democracy adopt it on their own. It seems like anytime you force people to vote, it ends up pretty poorly, and I think people need to lose whatever brainbug they've got that tells them Democracy works for every country and makes every country better. It's preferable to individual liberties, but I think peace and prosperity should be the priorities. Bombing a country to rubble to give them purple fingers is an odd kind of liberation.

[K. A. Pital]

Iraq isn't even a proper democracy. "The People", with a capital P, pompous and all that, have no power, Al-Maliki is a powerless sock puppet who's running between eager-to-kill islamic clerics. Many in Iraq are totally sure that democracy means not "rule of the people" but "chaos and murder" thanks to the US.

[K. A. Pital]

My judgement: democracy is only then a democracy when it's functioning, and in the interests of the people, a nation as a whole, which is empowered and able to legislate, and also competent.

If it's not functioning, or _not_ functioning in the interests of it's own people, then frankly it's no better, and perhaps even worse, than a secure dictatorship.

[Darth Servo]

Cheney has lost it, again

I've said it before, I'll say it again. You can't lose something you never had in the first place.

Vice President Dick Cheney on Wednesday dismissed as "hogwash" the suggestion that blunders may have hurt the administration's credibility on Iraq and led members of Congress on both sides of the aisle to question President Bush's plan to send more troops to Baghdad.

In an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, conducted a day after Bush delivered his State of the Union address, Cheney was asked to respond to some Republicans in Congress who "are now seriously questioning your credibility, because of the blunders and the failures."

To that, Cheney answered, "Wolf, Wolf, I simply don't accept the premise of your question. I just think it's hogwash."

Typical how these assholes think their personal opinion determines what constitutes valid criticism and what doesn't

Cheney said the administration is committed to moving ahead with its plan to send more troops to Baghdad, even if Congress passes a resolution in opposition. (Read a transcript of the interview PDF)

"It won't stop us," he said. "And it would be, I think, detrimental from the standpoint of the troops."

Whats detrimental is sending more of them into the meat grinder.

If U.S. forces were to pull out of Iraq, "we would simply validate the terrorists' strategy that says the Americans will not stay to complete the task ... that we don't have the stomach for the fight. That's the biggest threat."

I'm always amazed how Cheney and his mindless followers think they can read the minds of the terrorists. Almost as if they think like the Terrorists do.

He added, "The notion that somehow the effort hasn't been worth it, or that we shouldn't go ahead and complete the task, is just dead wrong."

Because you say so?

Cheney said the U.S.-led ouster of Saddam Hussein was the right move. (Watch Cheney tell why the war is a success Video)

Again, the "why" is "because we say so".

"The world is much safer today because of it," Cheney said.

"There have been three national elections in Iraq. There's a democracy established there, a constitution, a new democratically elected government.

"Saddam has been brought to justice and executed, his sons are dead, his government is gone. And the world is better off for it," he said.

Oh yeah, plunging a nation with a rather high population percentage being violent fundies into complete anarchy is such an improvement.

[Patrick Degan]

It seems more and more that this White House is beginning to resemble Hitler in his last pitiful days in the Bunker. They just announce expectations and bold moves in the same manner as Ol' Bubblehead did in ordering to battle armoured divisions which existed only in his mind. Someone once said that the first time history repeats itself is as tragedy and the second time as farce. The Bush White House is somehow managing the feat of repeating history as both tragedy and farce simultaneously.

[Surlethe]

Iraq isn't even a proper democracy. "The People", with a capital P, pompous and all that, have no power, Al-Maliki is a powerless sock puppet who's running between eager-to-kill islamic clerics. Many in Iraq are totally sure that democracy means not "rule of the people" but "chaos and murder" thanks to the US.

I suspect that, if given a choice, the Iraqi People would choose an Islamic theocracy, much like the Palestinians chose Hamas in their elections. What Bush is really gunning for is a mini-US smack-dab in center of the Middle East with loads of oil and Arabs. That is not going to happen in your lifetime or mine.

[Surlethe]

Someone once said that the first time history repeats itself is as tragedy and the second time as farce. The Bush White House is somehow managing the feat of repeating history as both tragedy and farce simultaneously.

On national and international scales with thousands, if not millions, of lives and livelihoods at stake, tragedy and farce begin to resemble each other quite closely.

[Darth Wong]

There's nothing new about that contradiction. This is the same administration which says on one hand that its mission is to "spread democracy" while simultaneously saying that it is not concerned with popular opinion at home or abroad.

[Surlethe]

There's nothing new about that contradiction. This is the same administration which says on one hand that its mission is to "spread democracy" while simultaneously saying that it is not concerned with popular opinion at home or abroad.

Speaking of hypocrisy, the administration, and Iraq, I never cease to wonder at how Bush can say that the United States' mission is an Iraq with religious liberty, and then turn right around and pronounce that America is a Christian nation. It makes sense once you realize that "religious liberty" really means "freedom for Christians to practice their religion", but the apparent doublethink is simply astounding.

[kheegster]

I think that the saddest thing about the state of the union is the fact that the only reason that Bush is really in trouble is because he fucked up in Iraq. If the war is going well, you'd hardly hear a pip about all the stuff about launching an illegal war, suspending habeas corpus, torture and all that stuff.

You guys are pretty fortunate that your fascists are pretty incompetent ones.

[Shroom Man 777]

I only hope that, like Rasputin, Cheney ends up having his severed penis of considerable size displayed in a bottle in someone's collection

[Patrick Degan]

I think that the saddest thing about the state of the union is the fact that the only reason that Bush is really in trouble is because he fucked up in Iraq. If the war is going well, you'd hardly hear a pip about all the stuff about launching an illegal war, suspending habeas corpus, torture and all that stuff.

You guys are pretty fortunate that your fascists are pretty incompetent ones.

Because they're all greedy as fuck and have zero patience. Like little kids at the toy store, they want it all NOW. Makes it easy for them to trip themselves up.

[Uraniun235]

Iraq isn't even a proper democracy. "The People", with a capital P, pompous and all that, have no power, Al-Maliki is a powerless sock puppet who's running between eager-to-kill islamic clerics. Many in Iraq are totally sure that democracy means not "rule of the people" but "chaos and murder" thanks to the US.

I suspect that, if given a choice, the Iraqi People would choose an Islamic theocracy, much like the Palestinians chose Hamas in their elections. What Bush is really gunning for is a mini-US smack-dab in center of the Middle East with loads of oil and Arabs. That is not going to happen in your lifetime or mine.

I'm not quite so sure that the whole of the Iraqi people would be gung-ho about Islamic theocracy for the sake of theocracy. I'm inclined to suspect that a lot of Iraqis would support one now because they would probably see it as a far more safe and secure place to live than the "democracy" which has been foisted on them by the Americans.

I would caution you against making generalizations about the "Iraqi People" as a whole as regional and tribal loyalties are still very important in what was and still is an artificially created nation. The most drastic example of this is of course the Kurds, who are easily the most 'misfit' of all the Iraqi peoples. Even the Kurds fell prey to what were essentially tribal divisions back when they were fighting a hell of a lot harder for autonomy than they are now; at the point when one might expect them to unify against an external threat, they still found time to fight with each other.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I think that the saddest thing about the state of the union is the fact that the only reason that Bush is really in trouble is because he fucked up in Iraq. If the war is going well, you'd hardly hear a pip about all the stuff about launching an illegal war, suspending habeas corpus, torture and all that stuff.

You guys are pretty fortunate that your fascists are pretty incompetent ones.

Because they're all greedy as fuck and have zero patience. Like little kids at the toy store, they want it all NOW. Makes it easy for them to trip themselves up.

yeah but it's our lives that they are breaking not just toys.

I have never known a president more capable of pissing me off on a consistant basis. Hell I now give them both the finger every time I see their souless faces on the TV....

[Pelranius]

I'm reminded of Baghdad Bob again.

Only there Dick Cheney denying reality is more frightening than Baghdad Bob, simply because Dicky is one life away from control of half the world's nukes.

[wilfulton]

How does it go?

The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't change their views to fit the facts, they change the facts to fit their views. This can be troubling if you're one of the facts that needs changing.

IIRC, that was Dr Who working on some computer in the episode where we meet Leela...