Federation Torpedo's can bypass Imperial shields

[Omega-13]

Thought i'd throw up a topic like that to attract some attention, now this is just an idea, i'm not a rabbid trekkie, or anything, but

What if federation photon torpedo's were programmed to fire without their shields up, they fly towards the Imperial ship, as they pass the ray shields, (untouched) they instantly raise the shields on the photon torpedo, once they get to the shield that stops physical objects, they would bypass that aswell, because its energy surrounding the photon torpedo,
i dunno, silly idea

[NecronLord]

Particle sheils stop energy as well, Its a fallacy the only reason the death star vend did not use normal sheilds was because it was an exaust port, and particles had to escape, normally they use both sheilds in one system

[Omega-13]

Particle sheils stop energy as well, Its a fallacy the only reason the death star vend did not use normal sheilds was because it was an exaust port, and particles had to escape, normally they use both sheilds in one system

makes sense, but do you have proof

[Omega-13]

Actually, i'll add something, if that is the case with the DS's exhaust port, being a special type of particle shield, that allowed physical matter through, cause it was an exhaust port, why can't this tactic be used on the rear shields of an ISD near the engines?

[Master of Ossus]

Particle shields stop objects which are surrounded by energy. Capital ships must lower the shields around their hangars to allow for them to launch shielded or unshielded fighters. BTW, particle and ray shields probably are equidistant from the ship they protect, most of the time.

[Omega-13]

Particle shields stop objects which are surrounded by energy. Capital ships must lower the shields around their hangars to allow for them to launch shielded or unshielded fighters. BTW, particle and ray shields probably are equidistant from the ship they protect, most of the time.

what about what i said about the shields on the engines?

[Master of Ossus]

1. When have ISD's ever allowed laser fire past their aft shields in sufficient quantities to damage the ship with their shields up?

2. Perhaps there is so much energy created by the engines that it more energy needs to escape from the shields than is present in most weapons fire.

[SirNitram]

Particle shields stop objects which are surrounded by energy. Capital ships must lower the shields around their hangars to allow for them to launch shielded or unshielded fighters. BTW, particle and ray shields probably are equidistant from the ship they protect, most of the time.

what about what i said about the shields on the engines?

I'd say a Trek ship wouldnt' be able to get a lock, ions tend to screw with their stuff. And an ISD needs to output a lot of ions to move.

[Omega-13]

Particle shields stop objects which are surrounded by energy. Capital ships must lower the shields around their hangars to allow for them to launch shielded or unshielded fighters. BTW, particle and ray shields probably are equidistant from the ship they protect, most of the time.

what about what i said about the shields on the engines?

I'd say a Trek ship wouldnt' be able to get a lock, ions tend to screw with their stuff. And an ISD needs to output a lot of ions to move.

we've seen them fire manually

[SirNitram]

Have we? I don't recall it. Can you name an instance?

[Master of Ossus]

So.... When have ISD's allowed weapons fire to pass through their shields and strike their engines?

And even if this has happened in the past, it is probably because there is more energy escaping the ISD's drives than there is in laser fire. Since there are enough ions and radiation and other kinds of energy to prevent TIE fighters from moving in an ISD's exhaust and even damage starfighters (ref. Dark Force Rising, X-Wing Alliance, X-Wing vs. TIE fighter), there is probably too much to differentiate small weapons fire from normal exhaust.

[Darth Yoshi]

So.... When have ISD's allowed weapons fire to pass through their shields and strike their engines?

And even if this has happened in the past, it is probably because there is more energy escaping the ISD's drives than there is in laser fire. Since there are enough ions and radiation and other kinds of energy to prevent TIE fighters from moving in an ISD's exhaust and even damage starfighters (ref. Dark Force Rising, X-Wing Alliance, X-Wing vs. TIE fighter), there is probably too much to differentiate small weapons fire from normal exhaust.

Right. Which means, of course, photorps will probably get vaporized by the engine exhaust.

[Omega-13]

So.... When have ISD's allowed weapons fire to pass through their shields and strike their engines?

this has not been attempted to my knowledge

And even if this has happened in the past, it is probably because there is more energy escaping the ISD's drives than there is in laser fire. Since there are enough ions and radiation and other kinds of energy to prevent TIE fighters from moving in an ISD's exhaust and even damage starfighters (ref. Dark Force Rising, X-Wing Alliance, X-Wing vs. TIE fighter), there is probably too much to differentiate small weapons fire from normal exhaust.

tie fighters aren't shielded, and can't go through the same punishment as photon torpedo's, i'd like to see a tie fighter move throgh an atmosphere at thousands of miles an hour and still stay in 1 piece

[Omega-13]

So.... When have ISD's allowed weapons fire to pass through their shields and strike their engines?

And even if this has happened in the past, it is probably because there is more energy escaping the ISD's drives than there is in laser fire. Since there are enough ions and radiation and other kinds of energy to prevent TIE fighters from moving in an ISD's exhaust and even damage starfighters (ref. Dark Force Rising, X-Wing Alliance, X-Wing vs. TIE fighter), there is probably too much to differentiate small weapons fire from normal exhaust.

Right. Which means, of course, photorps will probably get vaporized by the engine exhaust.

speculation, do you have proof or any evidence at all that they would besides an opinion

[SirNitram]

So.... When have ISD's allowed weapons fire to pass through their shields and strike their engines?

this has not been attempted to my knowledge

And even if this has happened in the past, it is probably because there is more energy escaping the ISD's drives than there is in laser fire. Since there are enough ions and radiation and other kinds of energy to prevent TIE fighters from moving in an ISD's exhaust and even damage starfighters (ref. Dark Force Rising, X-Wing Alliance, X-Wing vs. TIE fighter), there is probably too much to differentiate small weapons fire from normal exhaust.

tie fighters aren't shielded, and can't go through the same punishment as photon torpedo's, i'd like to see a tie fighter move throgh an atmosphere at thousands of miles an hour and still stay in 1 piece

What, you mean acheive speeds sufficient to go orbital in seconds(Which they can do) from the surface? They do it all the time.

[Master of Ossus]

1. If you have never seen weapons fire go through the shields behind the engines of an ISD, then why did you ask why the engines were not shielded similarly to the DS's exhaust vent?

2. I showed examples of shielded fighters that have been damaged or destroyed by "engine wash" in SW. You ignored that, instead focusing on the TIE fighter example. TIE fighters CAN go through the atmosphere at well over a thousand kilometers per hour in level flight (ref. Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels, maximum atmospheric speed is always level). It is unclear how much punishment their spaceframes can take (how much faster than that they could go). In spite of their aerodynamics, their superior materials allow them to travel that quickly, even through the atmosphere.

[Omega-13]

So.... When have ISD's allowed weapons fire to pass through their shields and strike their engines?

this has not been attempted to my knowledge

And even if this has happened in the past, it is probably because there is more energy escaping the ISD's drives than there is in laser fire. Since there are enough ions and radiation and other kinds of energy to prevent TIE fighters from moving in an ISD's exhaust and even damage starfighters (ref. Dark Force Rising, X-Wing Alliance, X-Wing vs. TIE fighter), there is probably too much to differentiate small weapons fire from normal exhaust.

tie fighters aren't shielded, and can't go through the same punishment as photon torpedo's, i'd like to see a tie fighter move throgh an atmosphere at thousands of miles an hour and still stay in 1 piece

What, you mean acheive speeds sufficient to go orbital in seconds(Which they can do) from the surface? They do it all the time.

i'm sorry i should have been more specific, what I meant to say was, have we ever seen a tie fighter re-enter an atmosphere as fast as a photon torpedo?

[Darth Yoshi]

You're right, it is speculation on my part. But it's based on the fact that TIEs can survive atmospheric reentry without shields, and in Solo Command, TIE interceptors were implied to do so at full combat speed. Considering how structurally flimsy ST ships are, I doubt that they can survive atmospheric reentry without shields. There is no reason for torps to be any stronger physically, since they are made of the same material. Ergo, photorps can't survive conditions that threaten the more physically sound TIEs.

[Master of Ossus]

You came here with a tactic (firing proton torpedoes through the engine wash behind an ISD) and you want us to prove that it COULD NOT work? You have to prove that it could.

In TIE Fighter, X-Wing, X-Wing Alliance, and X-Wing vs. TIE fighter firing at the engine section of an ISD does not do any more damage to the ship than just firing at it normally. Such weapons fire, even with proton torpedoes, is even absorbed by the ship's shields (if they're up at the time). To my knowledge, there have never been canon or official incidents of ships firing at an ISD's engines, except in the Katana Battle (DFR), when such weapons fire did not appear to do significantly more damage than it would have if it had been fired against the hull. The ships in DFR were just staying behind the ISD to remain out of its firing arcs, and not so that they could do additional damage.

[Omega-13]

1. If you have never seen weapons fire go through the shields behind the engines of an ISD, then why did you ask why the engines were not shielded similarly to the DS's exhaust vent?

we are on different pages here, I said that nothing like this has been attempted to my knowledge, about raising a shield on a photon torpedo (proton torpedo for sw) just after it goes through the ray shield, and just before it hits the particle shield, I don't think we are debating the same points

2. I showed examples of shielded fighters that have been damaged or destroyed by "engine wash" in SW. You ignored that, instead focusing on the TIE fighter example. TIE fighters CAN go through the atmosphere at well over a thousand kilometers per hour in level flight (ref. Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels, maximum atmospheric speed is always level). It is unclear how much punishment their spaceframes can take (how much faster than that they could go). In spite of their aerodynamics, their superior materials allow them to travel that quickly, even through the atmosphere.

i didn't ignore anything, I'm responding as fast as I can to many points, patience

So at this point, it seems we have to establish what can take more punishment, a photon torpedo or a tie fighter

[Master of Ossus]

You're right, it is speculation on my part. But it's based on the fact that TIEs can survive atmospheric reentry without shields, and in Solo Command, TIE interceptors were implied to do so at full combat speed. Considering how structurally flimsy ST ships are, I doubt that they can survive atmospheric reentry without shields. There is no reason for torps to be any stronger physically, since they are made of the same material. Ergo, photorps can't survive conditions that threaten the more physically sound TIEs.

The limiting factor here appears to be the acceleration compensator and the pilot. The TIE spaceframe appears to be able to withstand an immense amount of punishment, but the inertial compensator can only compensate for so much, and the body of a human is weak....

[Omega-13]

You came here with a tactic (firing proton torpedoes through the engine wash behind an ISD) and you want us to prove that it COULD NOT work? You have to prove that it could.

try and be a bit more specific, my point had more to it than that, perhaps you should re-read it

In TIE Fighter, X-Wing, X-Wing Alliance, and X-Wing vs. TIE fighter firing at the engine section of an ISD does not do any more damage to the ship than just firing at it normally.

using tl's it doesn't surprise me

Such weapons fire, even with proton torpedoes, is even absorbed by the ship's shields (if they're up at the time).

which shields

[Master of Ossus]

Omega 13: Ray shields and particle shields are usually in the same place around a ship. It would be impossible to go through one without going through the other one. Even if they WERE differently spaced, a particle shield still stops a physical object that is surrounded in energy. It makes no difference. They stop shielded fighters, and they would stop a proton torpedo that has been shielded. Your theory is flawed.

[Omega-13]

There is no reason for torps to be any stronger physically, since they are made of the same material.

are u certain

[Omega-13]

Omega 13: Ray shields and particle shields are usually in the same place around a ship. It would be impossible to go through one without going through the other one. Even if they WERE differently spaced, a particle shield still stops a physical object that is surrounded in energy. It makes no difference. They stop shielded fighters, and they would stop a proton torpedo that has been shielded. Your theory is flawed.

they are in the same place, but at different levels, the particle shield is hull hugging, the ray shield seems to be suspended above the ship,

when a fighter hits an isd, and gets destroyed, like we saw at Endor, do we know which shield it was hitting?