StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Well given the recent controversy at the other board has shown how moderators can utterly fail their users, I would like to thank the mods on this forum for making sure this place does not allow far-right views like sexism, homophobia, racism and other forms of discrimination to be tolerated here. Yes SDN might be a small board compared to the other board in terms of activity, but if such policies at SDN ensure horrible views are not accepted at all, I will rather stay here.

What are you talking about?

Ralin wrote: ↑2019-07-19 09:09am What are you talking about?

Someone just leaked a secret chat at SB.com involving 100s of users and Moderators participating in a discussion that tolerates far-right views. And some of the mods are revealed to have a double standard in regards to moderating discussion, giving a free pass to far-right users.

Pretty sure the mods here aren't policing our secret chats. I would find it disturbing if they tried.

Ralin wrote: ↑2019-07-19 11:22am Pretty sure the mods here aren't policing our secret chats. I would find it disturbing if they tried.

It's not that they are policing secret chats. It's that the mods over there used the secret chat to create a secret sub-forum that openly espouse far-right views and protect far-right posters from being banned by "coaching" them to skirt around the rules.

This is what went on apparently.

https://edsnowdon.wordpress.com/

ray245 wrote: ↑2019-07-19 08:28am Well given the recent controversy at the other board has shown how moderators can utterly fail their users, I would like to thank the mods on this forum for making sure this place does not allow far-right views like sexism, homophobia, racism and other forms of discrimination to be tolerated here. Yes SDN might be a small board compared to the other board in terms of activity, but if such policies at SDN ensure horrible views are not accepted at all, I will rather stay here.

Agreed. That article was pretty surprising and pretty sad to see.

In addition to good Mod work, I'd like to think that part of it is board culture as well. What drew me to this board in the first place (apart from learning why a Stardestroyer could kick the E-D's ass) is that we generally require there be some level of proof / evidence in our threads and debates. It's pretty difficult to be an extremist on this board given most people here are more than willing to fact check, which more than one person has found out the hard way. When people know / can easily learn you're full of BS, it doesn't take long on this board before you qualify for "mockery of stupid ideas".

While I have no sympathy for those who espouse things like sexism, homophobia, racism etc sometimes I do feel we're a bit too hard on the non-extremist trolls; their bizarreness can provide quite a bit of entertainment. It's probably going to be awhile before we run into another Archinist

It really doesn't help that the staff decision right now is to bury all discussion of it, infract/ban anyone that brings it up, and demand no one ever be allowed to mention that their shenanigans happened at all. After making an open declaration that they found no evidence of wrongdoing on their part whatsoever.

Wait, what open declaration of no evidence? The last I checked they were still looking into it because they had months of messages to search through.

Well, I don't think I'll be visiting SB any more (I wasn't a member*, but would often browse the site).

They've chosen their side.



*Specifically, I was briefly on there about ten years ago under a different name, before being banned for no apparent reason. I figured it was probably a mistake. Now, I'm less sure.

Edit: Having read the article in full... Jesus fucking Christ. Advocating murder of board members, and doxing? With the collusion of moderators? SB shouldn't just be shunned and boycotted, it should be subject to an FBI investigation for domestic terrorism.

Steve wrote: ↑2019-07-20 04:44pm Wait, what open declaration of no evidence? The last I checked they were still looking into it because they had months of messages to search through.

He might be referring to staff saying there is no conspiracy.

Djinn wrote: ↑2019-07-20 02:04pm It really doesn't help that the staff decision right now is to bury all discussion of it, infract/ban anyone that brings it up, and demand no one ever be allowed to mention that their shenanigans happened at all. After making an open declaration that they found no evidence of wrongdoing on their part whatsoever.

Just to clarify you're referring to SB.com right?

ray245 wrote: ↑2019-07-21 04:37am

Steve wrote: ↑2019-07-20 04:44pm Wait, what open declaration of no evidence? The last I checked they were still looking into it because they had months of messages to search through.

He might be referring to staff saying there is no conspiracy.

There's a difference between "some mods, acting on their own initiative, coached alt-righters on how to avoid getting infracted" and "there is a vast conspiracy in the SB admin staff to crush dissenting opinions and shift the site to the alt-right". Saying the latter didn't happen isn't the same as saying "nothing wrong here, move along", which seems to be what Djinn is claiming. We're still waiting to see what the investigation turns up, which involves a bunch of people who have normal jobs having to go over thousands of messages dating almost two years in total. That's why they've outright said they're giving it three months.

I'll also note that every mod considered active in that group has been suspended even if there's no displayed evidence they personally engaged in objectionable behavior.

As for ending discussion on the matter, that's because it was devolving into flame wars between people not convinced by the mass PM link and those who are fully convinced by it.

Lord Revan wrote: ↑2019-07-21 05:50am

Djinn wrote: ↑2019-07-20 02:04pm It really doesn't help that the staff decision right now is to bury all discussion of it, infract/ban anyone that brings it up, and demand no one ever be allowed to mention that their shenanigans happened at all. After making an open declaration that they found no evidence of wrongdoing on their part whatsoever.

Just to clarify you're referring to SB.com right?

He is.

Steve wrote: ↑2019-07-21 08:04am

Lord Revan wrote: ↑2019-07-21 05:50am

Djinn wrote: ↑2019-07-20 02:04pm It really doesn't help that the staff decision right now is to bury all discussion of it, infract/ban anyone that brings it up, and demand no one ever be allowed to mention that their shenanigans happened at all. After making an open declaration that they found no evidence of wrongdoing on their part whatsoever.

Just to clarify you're referring to SB.com right?

He is.

While it's understanble that mods might want silence any discussion how they might be part of terrorist organization, it does create (or highlight) a problem and is in no way acceptble.

Lord Revan wrote: ↑2019-07-21 08:55am While it's understanble that mods might want silence any discussion how they might be part of terrorist organization, it does create (or highlight) a problem and is in no way acceptble.

Or, alternatively, the mods are trying to keep an unproductive flame war from breaking out while they investigate.

Steve wrote: ↑2019-07-21 09:17am

Lord Revan wrote: ↑2019-07-21 08:55am While it's understanble that mods might want silence any discussion how they might be part of terrorist organization, it does create (or highlight) a problem and is in no way acceptble.

Or, alternatively, the mods are trying to keep an unproductive flame war from breaking out while they investigate.

Sounds like a winning plan.

The mods just banned someone for calling someone a racist.

ray245 wrote: ↑2019-07-22 04:11pm The mods just banned someone for calling someone a racist.

Yeah, that's a steaming pile of shit. Rules that allow racist speech while prohibiting calling someone a racist weight the scales in a debate, essentially giving racists a free pass and gagging their opposition.

The same shit happened to me on the SFDebris forum a while back. Posters posting obviously racist shit, I called them out on it, I was disciplined for breaking board rules by calling someone racist (because apparently that's more offensive than being racist). I basically told the mod in question (via PM) that they were full of shit, and got banned.

First time I ever got banned from a forum for something I actually did, and I can't say I feel a great deal of regret about it.

As an update, the leaked racist messages have turned out to be from two people,one banned a while ago and the other banned over what's been revealed. The leak cropped the posts in questions to keep the name hidden to imply more than one person was using the remarks in question.

And you were banned from SFD because you tended to throw out the charge "racism" against anyone who disagreed with you, TRR, to the extent that people got tired of it.

Steve wrote: ↑2019-07-23 01:29pm As an update, the leaked racist messages have turned out to be from two people,one banned a while ago and the other banned over what's been revealed. The leak cropped the posts in questions to keep the name hidden to imply more than one person was using the remarks in question.

And you were banned from SFD because you tended to throw out the charge "racism" against anyone who disagreed with you, TRR, to the extent that people got tired of it.

I don't call people who disagree with me racists. I call racists racist (and one of the redeeming features on this board is that one is allowed to do so here, unlike on SFD). But in many quarters, that is unacceptable. Because, you know, we've got to be civil to the white supremacists.

One thing I will never do is stop calling a spade a spade when it comes to racism. Nor will I choose to remain in any community that prohibits me from doing so.

I'd also like a citation on the claim that the SB remarks were only two people. Especially since the original article shows hateful comments from more than two individuals, even taking into account that the names are cropped from some of them. And that's not counting the numerous other users who were liking their comments.

The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2019-07-23 06:25pm I'd also like a citation on the claim that the SB remarks were only two people. Especially since the original article shows hateful comments from more than two individuals, even taking into account that the names are cropped from some of them. And that's not counting the numerous other users who were liking their comments.

The admins analyzed the posts from the leak, almost all were from previously-banned accounts for said behavior, save for a couple by Rakdos, who has been banned as well.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/posts/59550275/

Essentially, the leaker cropped the posts to make it look like multiple people were using slurs or to eliminate context (a comment about Nazism not being bad, for instance, was done as a critique of moral relativistic "there is no good or evil" arguing).

The admins are also still investigating the entire mass PM, given the size it's going to take a lot of time to do so. My primary concern is people withholding judgement until such a time as said investigation finishes instead of rushing to declare things and demand punishments that may not be warranted. But I admit to a bias: I favor sober judgement carefully arrived at to internet mob mentality justice.

As for your ousting from SFD, your reply of "I call racists racist" clarifies how you think, but it doesn't mean every time you used the term it was actually justified. But at this point we're making this discussion about yet another web forum.

Steve wrote: ↑2019-07-23 08:36pmAs for your ousting from SFD, your reply of "I call racists racist" clarifies how you think, but it doesn't mean every time you used the term it was actually justified. But at this point we're making this discussion about yet another web forum.

We could just as easily be talking about this forum. Just replace racist with nazi, fascist, trumpist, or libel.

I could cite numerous examples of me disagreeing sharply with other posters without calling them any of those things, because in those cases I did not feel it applied. It is possible for me to reach conclusions in error, as it is possible for anyone to do so, but the notion that I routinely label others as bigots or liars, or that I potentially do so maliciously as a debating tactic, is one that I find extremely offensive. By and large, I say what I think, and I mean what I say, and on the whole I've gotten far more grief for doing so than benefit.

But this thread isn't about me, so I'll leave it there.

Honestly many of the people in those posts have said downright disgusting things in the context of Israel Palestine so I wouldn't be shocked if they really DID say all those disgusting things. Honestly I think they did.

Lt Ryguy banned me from politics when I directly stated that those posters thought palestinians were subhuman animals (which they do) and that anyone who thought it was as simple as "it's all the palestinian's fault" thinks that palestinians are inherently violent orcs who can't compromise (which they are).

So I'm NOT shocked by this. The posters implicated in that thread are all bigoted fuckers who deserve a permaban.