Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

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How would you rate this episode

5. Better than Tom Baker's Who
0
No votes
4. Buying the bluray
6
75%
3. comme ci comme ça
0
No votes
2. What was that?
1
13%
1. Abort the show
1
13%
0. Going to make an hour long youtube video whining about Doctor Who
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 8

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mr friendly guy
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Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by mr friendly guy » 2020-01-06 08:45am

Ok, I must admit, I am surprised by Chibnall's effort this season so far. Its actually fun, although there are some usual plot problems, like the Master needing to explain his plan to gloat just like in the classic series.

So random plot points which I enjoy

1. Companions not useless.

2. Time travel to cheat - ie the Doctor leaves clues to resolve the cliffhangar from episode one

3. Celebration of computing - the Doctor meets Babbage.

4. Celebration of interesting women through out history - cue the anti SJWs whining. I mean how many historical men does Doctor Who show? Off the top of my head, Shakespere, HG Wells, Alan Turing (in EU media), Marco Polo, King John (ok that was a robot in disguise), Van Gogh etc. There were a few women such as Queen Victoria, Madame Pompadore etc. Nothing wrong with that.

5. The Master trying his luck with some alien invasion - harkens back to classical Who eg Terror of the Autons, Timeflight (where the aliens were actually energy beings like the aliens from this episode), Claws of Axos etc.

6. The Master is back to form, as a goddamn sociopath. How he casually uses the tissue compressor eliminator to shrink and kill people. Remember when he murdered Tegan's (companion from the Tom Baker / Peter Davison's era) auntie and an Australian policeman in Logopolis. Remember how John Simm's version was a total dick. That's the return to form. If you needed a female Time Lord villainess who reforms, just go with the Rani. :D

Plot points which could blow up in our face

1. The Master destroys Gallifrey. Man, back to RTD's reign. Sigh. The Time Lords in my opinion would be best used if we actually had a time war and a way to show how epic things are if the TL need to be involve.
Now onto why he did it. Time Lords lied about their history. Ok, so this better be good revelation or else it would be a big let down.

Some interesting things
1. The Doctor states its low even for the Master to work with the Nazis. Come on, he works with the fucking Daleks (Frontier in Space is the obvious story line that springs to mind), and he murdered like half the universe (Logopolis). He had the Toclafane kill like all of Japan because he was a dick. Commanding a few German troops doesn't compare.

2. Useful commentary on technology and privacy. Contrast to what certain ahem anti SJW commentators think about politics in shows, they really who have no freaking idea about the show's history. Politics has entered DW numerous times. Just watch the classical episode the Sunmakers and then look up which British politician the Ursurian alien's appearance was supposed to be based on.

------------------------
I am again giving this 4/5.
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Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by Bedlam » 2020-01-06 01:44pm

I overall enjoyed it although maybe it was a little to fast paced particularly in the last 15 minutes or so where they races to set up the overarching plot for the series.

I agree I did like the Master being actually scary in this episode, he came across as a barely maniac who could lash out at any moment i.e. randomly murdering a few Victorians just because he could.

The appearance of Ada Gordon / Lovelace, Noor Khan and Charles Babbage felt a little perfunctory they could probably have had a whole story about them each as it was they didn't really do much (interestingly Babbage didn't seem to get a mind wipe probably because he didn't time travel).

Gallifrey being destroyed did seem a bit of a reset given it didn't do anything since it was brought back but I hope it will be interesting to see where they do with the 'dark secret behind it all' if it disgusts the Master. Still nothing to clearly say if this version is pre or post Missy, I can live with that traditionally they didn't often explain how he survived his previous story when he was brought back in the original show.

Overall it looks like a good start to the season and hopefully it can keep up the momentum for the rest of it.

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Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by SpottedKitty » 2020-01-06 04:42pm

Better than the first part, I thought. I had a good laugh at the signs in the plane — anyone else remember a very similar gag being used in Harry Harrison's Technicolor® Time Machine?

Another Ominous Name from Gallifrey's Past in the "Timeless Child"; this sounds familiar, was it one of the Weapons Too Dreadful To Use mentioned way back in "The End Of Time"?
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Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by Tribble » 2020-01-06 06:08pm

SpottedKitty wrote:
2020-01-06 04:42pm
Better than the first part, I thought. I had a good laugh at the signs in the plane — anyone else remember a very similar gag being used in Harry Harrison's Technicolor® Time Machine?

Another Ominous Name from Gallifrey's Past in the "Timeless Child"; this sounds familiar, was it one of the Weapons Too Dreadful To Use mentioned way back in "The End Of Time"?
IIRC the “Nightmare Child” was mentioned a couple of times including in the End of Time; apparently it was some kind of Eldritch Abomination during the Time War that the Doctor was not too fond of. IIRC it originally killed Davros before Dalek Caan managed to break the time lock and rescue him.
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Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by mr friendly guy » 2020-01-06 10:41pm

Tribble wrote:
2020-01-06 06:08pm
SpottedKitty wrote:
2020-01-06 04:42pm
Better than the first part, I thought. I had a good laugh at the signs in the plane — anyone else remember a very similar gag being used in Harry Harrison's Technicolor® Time Machine?

Another Ominous Name from Gallifrey's Past in the "Timeless Child"; this sounds familiar, was it one of the Weapons Too Dreadful To Use mentioned way back in "The End Of Time"?
IIRC the “Nightmare Child” was mentioned a couple of times including in the End of Time; apparently it was some kind of Eldritch Abomination during the Time War that the Doctor was not too fond of. IIRC it originally killed Davros before Dalek Caan managed to break the time lock and rescue him.
https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Nightmare_Child

Spin off media added more info. Apparently its a super Dalek which got out of control. Presumably it hurt the Daleks more than the Time Lords, hence why Davros tried to destroy it and failed.
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Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by B5B7 » 2020-01-07 09:39am

SpottedKitty wrote:
2020-01-06 04:42pm
Better than the first part, I thought. I had a good laugh at the signs in the plane — anyone else remember a very similar gag being used in Harry Harrison's Technicolor® Time Machine?

Another Ominous Name from Gallifrey's Past in the "Timeless Child"; this sounds familiar, was it one of the Weapons Too Dreadful To Use mentioned way back in "The End Of Time"?
The Timeless Child was mentioned in the first season of the current Doctor in the episode Ghost Monument.

A curiosity about this episode is that it mentions that the spy aliens have been on Earth for hundreds of years, which means that they were present in many of the previous events from Doctor Who such as the Toclafane invasion that the Master also initiated.
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Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by bilateralrope » 2020-01-07 10:52am

B5B7 wrote:
2020-01-07 09:39am
A curiosity about this episode is that it mentions that the spy aliens have been on Earth for hundreds of years, which means that they were present in many of the previous events from Doctor Who such as the Toclafane invasion that the Master also initiated.
They would still need to connect this regeneration of the Master with the previous ones.

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Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by Broomstick » 2020-01-07 11:52am

The four-beat signal was a definite call-back to prior seasons/regenerations
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Re: Doctor Who s12e02 spyfall part 2 [SPOILERS]

Post by Adam Reynolds » 2020-01-12 01:47pm

One thing that was really sad to learn is that Noor Khan was captured not long after The Doctor left her. She ultimately died in a concentration camp in 1944. I really liked that her final question wasn't about what happens to her, it was about whether or not fascism ultimately fails.

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