What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2105
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Q99 »

Inspired by the Xeelee Nightfighter thread, but hopefully more productive, what do you consider the higher tier SF universes?


Minor restriction- let's largely talk about what a fiction can do in a particular universe. Whether or not a fiction is multiversal, focus on what they can do within their one home universe (I.e. Dr. Who can blow up other universes left and right... but in the main one the Time Lords don't have complete control and can be opposed by in-that-one-universes forces, so judge by their in-the-main-universe stuff more)
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Thanas »

The Rhodan-verse certainly qualifies, as does the culture. Of those two, the Rhodanverse certainly has the more powerful entities.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2105
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Q99 »

Thanas wrote:The Rhodan-verse certainly qualifies, as does the culture. Of those two, the Rhodanverse certainly has the more powerful entities.
The Rhodan-verse is one I have curiosity about, but the whole 'German' thing makes it hard to get too much on in an accessible fashion.

The Culture's interesting in that any given civ is fairly single-galactic, and part of a single galaxy at that, but the ultimae-tier civilizations in the setting are also one that exist in quantity (7 to 12 in the galaxy depending on how you count them, iirc), and thus likely can be found everywhere. Plus, local capabilities are through the roof! Range, tactical speed, and perception all largely stand on their own.

A recent addition in my book is the Grand Central Arena series, who's Arena is a mind-boggling huge construct that, among other things, selectively decide when some physics like the FTL drives can and can't work- it's impossible to FTL from the space between star systems, only within a certain distance from a system's star, and from there only to a specific location in the Arena's spherepool (which can be used to go to another sphere and then FTL back from there, so you can travel the universe with it, but *only* as the Arena allows). It can also shut off nuclear reactions in Arenaspace, and prevent AIs from functioning while organic brains and non-AI computing both work fine. The species that have found it have speculation on how it works, and the material it's made of seems to be assembled via quark manipulation so... scary impressive.
User avatar
Captain Seafort
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1750
Joined: 2008-10-10 11:52am
Location: Blighty

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Captain Seafort »

Q99 wrote:The Culture's interesting in that any given civ is fairly single-galactic, and part of a single galaxy at that, but the ultimae-tier civilizations in the setting are also one that exist in quantity (7 to 12 in the galaxy depending on how you count them, iirc), and thus likely can be found everywhere. Plus, local capabilities are through the roof! Range, tactical speed, and perception all largely stand on their own.
There is, however, the implication of intergalactic warfare at some time in the past, given the existence of a (currently u/s) galactic deflector shield.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Thanas »

Galaxies? How cute. - The Kosmokrats from the Rhodanverse.

Serious, those guys have ships that are just absurd, a single warship of one of the higher powers requires the resources of several galaxies to be built.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2105
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Q99 »

And of course, there's the Xeelee, who are the unquestioned top of all matter in the universe. They're in every galaxy, their ships existing in tremendous number, are made in flaws in spacetime, and have guns that make stars go nova... and can time travel.
Thanas wrote:Galaxies? How cute. - The Kosmokrats from the Rhodanverse.

Serious, those guys have ships that are just absurd, a single warship of one of the higher powers requires the resources of several galaxies to be built.
Can those of us less familiar have some elaborations? :)

Or, is there a good source for an overview of the setting and what it's like?
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Thanas »

It is a weekly sci-fi novella series that has gone on for over 50 years and has over 4000 published titles, no way in hell am I going to be able to summarise it. Suffice to say that even the "normal" powers of the milky way do stuff that makes SW looks like child play, like teleporting a whole planet, putting an entire solar system outside the realm of time, warfare usually involves the full-scale destruction of worlds and systems, transforming a whole earth-sized planet into one giant factory to make warships etc. The weapons are off-the-charts, as in that a single bomb can destroy a world. To give you an inclination of the capabilities: A single wrecked exploration ship of an alien race was able to render the entire nuclear arsenal of earth impotent. This was a ship that was heavily damaged after crash-landding on the moon. Those are the star empires. Most of the novels center on those, as terrans etc. are usually on that level (terran civilisation rises and falls multiple times over the course of the series so capabilities vary).

Then you get sort of the middle powers who can launch suns at each other, regularly mess with time, can teleport mass over galaxies of distances etc and don't think twice about draining suns to power them (star empires do that too but on a much smaller scale, like they don't just use up the suns in one go).

And then you get the higher powers who do stuff like create whole universes, consume the resources of multiple galaxies to create one of their ships and have no problem of thinking in thousands of years etc. For good reasons those guys are not often the focus of the novels as quite frankly it becomes too boring and wanky.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2105
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Q99 »

Thanas wrote:It is a weekly sci-fi novella series that has gone on for over 50 years and has over 4000 published titles, no way in hell am I going to be able to summarise it.
Oh, I'm not looking for a *plot* summary or anything of course. A brief descriptor of what it's about and stuff.

Just something like, "Culture's the story of a high-end post scarcity society, one of many competing in their galaxy but among the strongest of them, with the books largely about their interaction with lesser civs. There's some bigger stuff too, the Transcends who leave the normal universe for higher or lower ones, but it mainly focuses on Culture."

Or, "Xeelee is the story of a vast species fighting over the form of the universe, while a really advanced (but hopelessly outmatched) humanity fights unaware over the larger conflict."

Does it even have a central conflict/main power, or do the stories range all over the place in the setting?
Suffice to say that even the "normal" powers of the milky way do stuff that makes SW looks like child play, like teleporting a whole planet, putting an entire solar system outside the realm of time, warfare usually involves the full-scale destruction of worlds and systems, transforming a whole earth-sized planet into one giant factory to make warships etc. The weapons are off-the-charts, as in that a single bomb can destroy a world. To give you an inclination of the capabilities: A single wrecked exploration ship of an alien race was able to render the entire nuclear arsenal of earth impotent. This was a ship that was heavily damaged after crash-landding on the moon. Those are the star empires. Most of the novels center on those, as terrans etc. are usually on that level (terran civilisation rises and falls multiple times over the course of the series so capabilities vary).
Neat.
Then you get sort of the middle powers who can launch suns at each other, regularly mess with time, can teleport mass over galaxies of distances etc and don't think twice about draining suns to power them (star empires do that too but on a much smaller scale, like they don't just use up the suns in one go).

And then you get the higher powers who do stuff like create whole universes, consume the resources of multiple galaxies to create one of their ships and have no problem of thinking in thousands of years etc. For good reasons those guys are not often the focus of the novels as quite frankly it becomes too boring and wanky.

Ok, very helpful, thank you! :)
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Thanas »

Q99 wrote:
Thanas wrote:It is a weekly sci-fi novella series that has gone on for over 50 years and has over 4000 published titles, no way in hell am I going to be able to summarise it.
Oh, I'm not looking for a *plot* summary or anything of course. A brief descriptor of what it's about and stuff.

Just something like, "Culture's the story of a high-end post scarcity society, one of many competing in their galaxy but among the strongest of them, with the books largely about their interaction with lesser civs. There's some bigger stuff too, the Transcends who leave the normal universe for higher or lower ones, but it mainly focuses on Culture."

Or, "Xeelee is the story of a vast species fighting over the form of the universe, while a really advanced (but hopelessly outmatched) humanity fights unaware over the larger conflict."

Does it even have a central conflict/main power, or do the stories range all over the place in the setting?
It is all over the place. It started with humanity discovering the crashed alien ship on the moon and then the setting took off. It mainly is the story of one of those moon astronauts becoming technically immortal and then using the power of the alien ship to build the so-called terran empire. The story then went on to have muliple universes and eventually introduced progressively more powerful empires and entitites, culminating in the above-mentioned higher beings.

The two main characters are two immortals, one the astronaut the series is named after (Perry Rhodan) and the second Atlan, a near-human alien that was stranded on earth and then spent over 15k of years molding humanity in stories ranging from the stone-age to the discovery of the alien ship on the moon, with him and one of the middle powers I mentioned above essentially gradually uplifting humanity to modern technology, culminating in the discovery of the alien ship on the moon using more advanced spaceships than the space shuttle in the 1960s.

You can read some of the ebooks in english, but the problem is that they start right in the middle of the stories. link here. So no origin story and you are kinda thrown in the middle of the story.

Also take note that the quality of each novella changes from "fucking amazing" to "WTF IS THIS WANKY SHIT?" depending on who writes them.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by The Romulan Republic »

We've gone this long and no one's mentioned Doctor Who?

Star Trek's an odd case- its mid-to low end for most of the things we see, but has some very, very high-end outliers, like the Q.

Edit: And yes, I see that the OP mentions Who, but its not quite clear to me weather they're giving it as an example of high-end or not.

I'd certainly say it qualifies, due to the presence of multiple major factions that can semi-casually rewrite reality.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2105
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Q99 »

Thanas wrote: It is all over the place. It started with humanity discovering the crashed alien ship on the moon and then the setting took off. It mainly is the story of one of those moon astronauts becoming technically immortal and then using the power of the alien ship to build the so-called terran empire. The story then went on to have muliple universes and eventually introduced progressively more powerful empires and entitites, culminating in the above-mentioned higher beings.

The two main characters are two immortals, one the astronaut the series is named after (Perry Rhodan) and the second Atlan, a near-human alien that was stranded on earth and then spent over 15k of years molding humanity in stories ranging from the stone-age to the discovery of the alien ship on the moon, with him and one of the middle powers I mentioned above essentially gradually uplifting humanity to modern technology, culminating in the discovery of the alien ship on the moon using more advanced spaceships than the space shuttle in the 1960s.

You can read some of the ebooks in english, but the problem is that they start right in the middle of the stories. link here. So no origin story and you are kinda thrown in the middle of the story.

Also take note that the quality of each novella changes from "fucking amazing" to "WTF IS THIS WANKY SHIT?" depending on who writes them.

Very helpful, thank you! :)
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Simon_Jester »

One of the earlier "high end" examples was Dr. Edward Elmer Smith's Skylark setting, which represents one of the evolutionary "missing links" between the old Edisonades and traditional 20th century space opera.

The last book of the series (written a few decades after the others) has starships a thousand miles across and capable of casual, rapid intergalactic travel. Weapon ranges are intergalactic and include (obviously) FTL beam weapons as well as offensive teleportation ("just beam a bomb aboard them" is a very practical option, and can be done at extreme ranges).

The culminating act of large-scale 'kaboom' involves an attack on an entire galaxy dominated by a species of hostile chlorine-breathers, extensively colonized by fortified planets who have their own intergalactic-range weaponry. The mode of attack involves teleporting planets around.

Smith's Lensman setting is somewhere between "mid" and "high" end by the end of the series too; their nastiest superweapons can induce supernovas, and they can move planets around with both conventional FTL drives and through hyperspace portals. However, they don't have the whole "casually intergalactic" aspect that some settings do; intergalactic travel is time-consuming and their ships (aside from fortified planetoids) are not exceptionally large.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2105
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Q99 »

I do like how the oldest space operas are still on the high end of things :)
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Simon_Jester »

Well, if anything it was easier to write gee-whiz stories of super-science blowing up planets and zipping across "island universes" (galaxies) back in the days before people had a good idea of what atomic power was and was not capable of, had a realistic impression of what a 20th century "space ship" looks like, and so on.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2105
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Q99 »

Simon_Jester wrote:Well, if anything it was easier to write gee-whiz stories of super-science blowing up planets and zipping across "island universes" (galaxies) back in the days before people had a good idea of what atomic power was and was not capable of, had a realistic impression of what a 20th century "space ship" looks like, and so on.
Sure, but so many SF are soft anyway, don't have a respect for scale, also in novel form, and like to show off how 'big' they are- with stuff far smaller.
User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 16329
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Batman »

I think what Simon is trying to say is it's a lot easier to write these amazing stories when you don't know how completely wrong you are about essentially everything.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2105
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Q99 »

The Romulan Republic wrote: Edit: And yes, I see that the OP mentions Who, but its not quite clear to me weather they're giving it as an example of high-end or not.

I'd certainly say it qualifies, due to the presence of multiple major factions that can semi-casually rewrite reality.
Doctor Who is always an odd case for me- because on the one hand they have truly impressive stuff like altering physics to eliminate magic, a few transcendantly powerful beings, and multiverse bombs- and all the EU stuff from the novels, war TARDISes etc. all.

On the other hand, the actual battles we see (of space and similar variety) are pew-pew with flying saucers and continent-busting attacks.

I personally put it as high end with an asterisk.

Batman wrote:I think what Simon is trying to say is it's a lot easier to write these amazing stories when you don't know how completely wrong you are about essentially everything.
I honestly doubt many writers of modern space opera have much better impressions of how stuff works than EE Doc Smith did ^^ I mean, 40s-through-60s is early but it's not *that* early, and pretty much all FTL-type stuff and giant scale space stuff is really super-far from realistic anyway. It's more like SF honed in on certain scales as 'normal' while the early ones went high and low- not because of plausibility, but just because conventions were less set. Hm, the advent of TF SF may play a role- almost no-one did galactic stuff on tv and movies.


Speaking of Smith, Grand Central Arena mentioned above gives me high hopes that the normal species are going to advance up the power chain, because the author is a huge EE Smith fan!
User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 10361
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: CIC, Battlestar Temeraire

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Q99 wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote: Edit: And yes, I see that the OP mentions Who, but its not quite clear to me weather they're giving it as an example of high-end or not.

I'd certainly say it qualifies, due to the presence of multiple major factions that can semi-casually rewrite reality.
Doctor Who is always an odd case for me- because on the one hand they have truly impressive stuff like altering physics to eliminate magic, a few transcendantly powerful beings, and multiverse bombs- and all the EU stuff from the novels, war TARDISes etc. all.

On the other hand, the actual battles we see (of space and similar variety) are pew-pew with flying saucers and continent-busting attacks.

I personally put it as high end with an asterisk.
It really depends on what you mean by high-end universes. If we want raw firepower and/or speed and/or civilisation size, the yes the Time Lords will lose out, but that's mainly because their many "I win" buttons don't need firewpoer or speed or size. Why need a universe-spanning network of outposts when your small, bigger on the inside capsules can go anywhere and anywhen?

Why bother engaging in a massive battle when you can go back and rewrite history to be a curbstomp win for your side? Hell, why even bother getting involved, when you're going to outlive and outlast all these lesser races anyway?
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Simon_Jester »

Batman wrote:I think what Simon is trying to say is it's a lot easier to write these amazing stories when you don't know how completely wrong you are about essentially everything.
In essence, yes.
Q99 wrote:Sure, but so many SF are soft anyway, don't have a respect for scale, also in novel form, and like to show off how 'big' they are- with stuff far smaller.
While you are not wrong, my point is that in the early days of science fiction, the idea of truly limitless possibilities was more prevalent.

I mean, from 1760 to 1960, travel speeds increased by a factor of a hundred, world population increased by a factor of five to ten, standard of living in the developed world increased by a factor of five to ten. Buildings got ten times taller and vastly larger. Not one but three times in that timeframe, entirely new forms of power and mechanism were discovered that revolutionized the world (steam power, electricity, and at the end of the window, nuclear energy).

In the mid-20th century, science fiction writers talked about intergalactic travel not just because it was "impressively big," but because they could continue extrapolating the exponential growth of technology and economy, and without any particular difficulty, they could honestly believe that within not too many more centuries, their descendants would be capable of such feats.

Today, we are far less optimistic about the prospects of technology continuing to increase without limit in all areas.

To get a flavor for this look at the stuff that Singularitarian types say about AI- they project almost unlimited potential, growing exponentially, and not too far in the future. In 1930-65 or so, it was normal for science fiction authors to predict 'singularity' levels of growth in all areas of science and technology.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2105
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Q99 »

Oh, duh, I forgot a huge one- the Downstreamers from Stephen Baxter's Manifold series. Who make the Xeelee look small.

They come from 10^117 years in the future- when they were young, they built supermassive black holes. When they were older, they built a construct encompassing the entire universe.... when it had expanded to massively greater than it's current size. At that point they also had wars among themselves and were capable of *damaging* large parts of 'The City,' as it was known. At the end point, they're effectively omniscient through simple 'been there, done that.'

They then use their time travel technology to go back and alter the universe from a finite universe to an infinite universe (making them defacto not-omniscient any more, but still very very very knowledgeable).

And, someone who was likely them in one of the stories made a 'planetarium illusion,' a quantum-accurate simulation surrounding the Solar System of the rest of the universe (i.e. you see every planet, star, etc. down to the *atom* and less). A level of accurate detail said to take more power than the entire galaxy to produce.


One thing they did in one universe was make a cosmic string loop around an entire, surrounded by ecosystems (each with the area of 10,000 earths), and whenever sapient life would evolve in the universe it'd send a bubble, pick them all up, and transplant them to these ecosystem where they could grow and expand without worry of asteroid impacts and similar.
User avatar
SolarpunkFan
Jedi Knight
Posts: 586
Joined: 2016-02-28 08:15am

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by SolarpunkFan »

The Raiel from the Commonwealth universe have a pretty powerful technological toolkit at their disposal. Able to build neigh impenetrable enclosures around solar system sized volumes, perhaps larger (though that might not be true, only just started with the Void Trilogy), and have built ships that can "withstand the physics of different universes", or something to that effect.

Quaint compared to most (all?) of the examples in here, but still pretty damn powerful.
One thing they did in one universe was make a cosmic string loop around an entire, surrounded by ecosystems (each with the area of 10,000 earths), and whenever sapient life would evolve in the universe it'd send a bubble, pick them all up, and transplant them to these ecosystem where they could grow and expand without worry of asteroid impacts and similar.
That was the short story "Refugium". Who created the refuges and its transport ships was never really talked about IIRC, though it could have been a "firstborn" alien race rather than the Downstreamers.
Seeing current events as they are is wrecking me emotionally. So I say 'farewell' to this forum. For anyone who wonders.
Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2105
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Q99 »

SolarpunkFan wrote: That was the short story "Refugium". Who created the refuges and its transport ships was never really talked about IIRC, though it could have been a "firstborn" alien race rather than the Downstreamers.
True, but they're lower on the totem pole than the Downstreamers anyway.
User avatar
SolarpunkFan
Jedi Knight
Posts: 586
Joined: 2016-02-28 08:15am

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by SolarpunkFan »

Q99 wrote:True, but they're lower on the totem pole than the Downstreamers anyway.
Ah, right. My mistake. :banghead:
Seeing current events as they are is wrecking me emotionally. So I say 'farewell' to this forum. For anyone who wonders.
Q99
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2105
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Q99 »

One that's reasonably impressive in scale, if not power, is the Five Galaxies from the Uplift verse. Five Galaxies worth of civilizations, absolutely packed with species everywhere.

Oh, and one you've all probably never heard of, and verging on sci-fantasy ala Star Wars, the comic "Prince of Heroes."

There's a civilization on the end of known space, the Daram, who claim to be invaded by a force with billions of ships, many of them the size of cities. The core worlds write this off as exaggeration, the invaders- raiders, more like- surely only have millions, and are thus nothing the Daram can't handle, they just want to save money by asking for help.
User avatar
Vendetta
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10895
Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: What do you consider the higher-end SF universes?

Post by Vendetta »

The various godlike entities of the Three Body 'verse are on the higher end.
Spoiler
One of their favourite tricks is redefining space to have a lower number of dimensions, causing everything within to cease to function/exist as it previously relied on having N not N-1 dimensions and now a different set of physical laws apply. It is implied that the current three dimensional universe is the blasted wreckage of what once existed before they started all this, and there is basically no way back other than waiting for the big crunch and a new universe.
Post Reply