Was Sheridan guilty of Nepotism?(B5)

[FaxModem1]

Okay, around the end of season 4 of Babylon 5, and the start of season 5, Sheridan creates a new government, the Interstellar Alliance, with it being a new government that embodies all the local actors of the B5-verse who are still around. Delenn is Vice-President, Garibaldi is his head of intelligence, Dr. Franklin is the head of Medicine, G'kar the cabinet's head writer, etc.

Now, over the first year of the administration, bad things happen. The telepath crisis, the rising of the Drakh, and the war with the Centauri, who are secretly controlled by the Drakh. Do you think any of these things could have been prevented if Sheridan had hired people who were better at the job and not his friends for the ISA cabinet? Why or why not?

[Lord Revan]

the thing is that any new leader will need people he can trust and who can trust him and it wouldn't surprice me if the pool of potential candidates Sheridan had wasn't all that great. we got to also remember Sheridan may not have been the only with a say at who gets elected to the ISA admistration.

[bilateralrope]

As well as politics influencing who gets each role, we also need to ask: How likely is it that better people for the job exist ?

Of the four people mentioned:
- Delenn is Vice-President

There were likely political reasons behind selecting Delenn. Maybe the Minbari wanted their choice of VP in exchange for giving the Rangers to the ISA. Maybe there are a lot of them still angry about the Black Star. After the Minbari civil war, I can easily see Delenn being at the top of their list.

- Garibaldi is his head of intelligence

It's easy for me to see how someone more skilled could easily exist. But could those more skilled be trusted ?
Nepotism and picking someone for how well they can be trusted sound very close to each other when we are talking that level of trust.

- Dr. Franklin is the head of Medicine

A position that would benefit from having it filled by someone with experience in dealing with multiple species. During the Earth-Minbari war, Franklin was asked to produce something to help the war, because he was possibly the only human with any knowledge of Minbari biology at that time. He refused on ethical grounds and was imprisoned for the war. Then came the years he spent working on B5.

I can easily see Franklin being the only choice.

- G'kar the cabinet's head writer

I don't remember B5 well enough to have anything to say about G'kar's position.

The decision that smells like nepotism the most is getting Lochley put in command of B5.

[Bedlam]

I would agree that he was, however, we did only see the first yearish of the alliance. It seems to have been set up almost overnight so I can guess that almost everybody could be considered the 'interim' holder of the post while they sort out a proper staff which would certainly be a very long, political and beaurocratic process. It was probably easiest to grab the people he knew while wheels were turning in the background. As we saw Garibaldi turned out to be a terrible choice although it wasn't entirely his fault but he might still have cracked under the pressure even without the mind control.

Delenn is probably an exception, it seems an extraordinarily bad precedent to have your president and vice-president as husband and wife, however no one could say no to Delenn, she is the ruler (If not be rule of law then cult of personality) of the most powerful race in the known universe now the Shadows and Vorlons are gone, no one can stand up to her. Sheridan was similarly untouchable at that point, he was the leader of the alliance than just saved the world, returned from the dead and had a similar cult of personality, given time the feet of clay are going to be visible but at that point no one could question his orders (except maybe earth, he did start a civil war, but again saved the planet).

[Bedlam]

- G'kar the cabinet's head writer

I don't remember B5 well enough to have anything to say about G'kar's position.

I'd say he was certainly an eloquent speaker, his 'even if it takes a thousand years, we will be free' speech after the fall of the Narn homework was great and his ability to talk down his people from doing anything stupid to the Centauri at the same time period suggests a useful skill.

Ultimately I guess we havn't seen enough of the universe to know for certain how 'good' each individual was at their role compared to all the other possible candidates.

[Ahriman238]

I suspect it was more a case where he'd already built a tremendous command staff, one that saw off the Shadows, and had major ties to every known government, who were all included in the ISA in a meaningful fashion.

I don't recall G'Kar being their speechwriter or anything like that though. I DO remember his magnificent speech on swearing in John.

[bilateralrope]

Something I just remembered: Sheridan became president of the ISA while he was in the custody of Earth. Afterwards he admitted that, while he knew that negotiations were underway, them falling through or picking someone else as president were definite possibilities. Giving the impression that he wasn't involved in the negotiations because he didn't represent anyone. Which means he might not have had much say at all.

I can easily see G'kar and Londo deciding that Garibaldi is the only person they can agree upon.

As for Delenn, she was also the head of the Rangers and thus command of the only fleet of warships built with Vorlon tech. With the rangers becoming ISA forces, there was no way to avoid her getting a high position in the ISA. The oddity is that she got VP instead of a more military focused position, which makes sense if the ISA was still working out just what positions it needed. Or maybe the VP position is not what we would think of as a vice president role.

[Lord Revan]

Well Delenn was high ranking member of the religious caste so administrational tasks would play to her strengths rather then a military task.

[FedRebel]

the thing is that any new leader will need people he can trust and who can trust him and it wouldn't surprice me if the pool of potential candidates Sheridan had wasn't all that great.

Especially since the ISA was a gambit by Sheridan and his inner-circle to make the League dependent on him...them and the Rangers

we got to also remember Sheridan may not have been the only with a say at who gets elected to the ISA administration.

He controlled the Rangers, he led the alliance in the Shadow War, with the exception of Garibaldi and Franklin, everyone else close to him was a very high rank in their respective governments (the three major powers.)

While Sheridan is enjoying the "hospitality" of the Clark Administration, this likely happened

Speaker of the League: Now that we've agreed on this Constitution Delenn Whom should be...using the 'Earther' term "President"?
Delenn: I nominate John Sheridan
The League in whole: *Roll eyes*
Londo: I nominate John Sheridan
G'Kar: I nominate John Sheridan
The League in whole: Wait, what? Well if those two agree...

Throw in his 20 year reign as President...Delenn succeeding him for an indeterminate span afterward...the implication that their son was to be groomed for the office....

I'm thinking nepotism is an understatement.

[Borgholio]

Throw in his 20 year reign as President...Delenn succeeding him for an indeterminate span afterward...the implication that their son was to be groomed for the office....

I'm thinking nepotism is an understatement.

At what point does nepotism turn into a dynasty?

[Ahriman238]

The second generation to inherit, rather than earn, position, I'd think.

[Borgholio]

The second generation to inherit, rather than earn, position, I'd think.

Well if that's the case, then Delenn would certainly be qualified to be president, given all her previous leadership experience. So that wouldn't quite be nepotism. And if their son is trained to be a leader and is at least somewhat competent at it, then same goes for him.

[Alyrium Denryle]

The second generation to inherit, rather than earn, position, I'd think.

Well if that's the case, then Delenn would certainly be qualified to be president, given all her previous leadership experience. So that wouldn't quite be nepotism. And if their son is trained to be a leader and is at least somewhat competent at it, then same goes for him.

It is also worth noting that Sheriden turned down running for a third term (terms last ~ 5-6 years). I see nothing wrong with their son being groomed for politics. As for Delenn, can anyone here think of anyone more qualified? I cant.

The same for everyone else in their respective positions save for Garibaldi.

It is not Nepotism if your best friends are also the singularly most qualified people in the Galaxy want the post, and who the other various galactic powers will accept. Take Dr. Franklin for example. You want other species to hand over their medical information? That is a lot of trust required. You need someone everyone knows will never permit that information to be used against them, at least until you get a multi-species heavily vetted civil service in place. That means Dr. Franklin, who is on record being willing to face a firing squad and let his own species die before letting his data be used to make weapons.

[Irbis]

It is also worth noting that Sheriden turned down running for a third term (terms last ~ 5-6 years).

The very fact he had to 'turn it down' says something was very wrong with the law, especially seeing that after 12 years you really not have excuse of temporary regime anymore.

I see nothing wrong with their son being groomed for politics.

*cough* Dubya Bush *cough*

If Roman system of rule got one thing right, it was giving the reins to most qualified person, not to who the previous guy in charge managed to spawn. Once they got bright ideas of leadership being decided by either penis of the top guy or the swords of their most elite military unit, everything kind of went downward, fast. Here, we have both, happening at the same time.

You know, they might be most talented and all, but virtually every single government based on familial ties humans tried ended up with tears, if not immediately on Glorious Leader's resignation, then on his replacement's.

It is not Nepotism if your best friends are also the singularly most qualified people in the Galaxy want the post, and who the other various galactic powers will accept.

Imagine, if you will, Michelle Obama being tremendously talented lawyer.

Then imagine certain Barack promoting her to post in SCOTUS. No problem, right?

...except, I sort of picture colossal shitstorm that would have followed this would have drowned everything US politics saw to that point. Democracies have rules on banning combining posts and handing offices to family for a reason, qualifications or not.

This might be EU vs US bias, as positions in government in USA seem to be independent feudal princedoms of whoever gets them, but why you need to hand all the top spots to your posse? Ethics don't make someone good organizer. For example, the doctor guy would have been better placed as vice-minister responsible for whatever he is good for under good supervisor overseeing whole institution and taking Franklin's advice in that particular field. Use his strengths, not face. Of course, then we wouldn't see wish fulfilment fantasy pandering to fans of that particular character.

Frankly, I am kind of baffled (or rather, not really, Straczynski ruined a lot of his stories by not paying any attention to details of what he writes) why B5 went with US model of rule, instead of adopting some sort of EU proportional system, or hell, even went with decentralized Swiss one. USA and its "winner loots all" take sounds horribly wrong for a loose collection of different races and a great way to dynamite things to pieces pretty quickly. Again, its only purpose seems to be pandering to "Murica strong" crowd, not deliberate decision of someone creating new government, in universe or outside of it.

[Batman]

It is also worth noting that Sheridan turned down running for a third term (terms last ~ 5-6 years).

The very fact he had to 'turn it down' says something was very wrong with the law, especially seeing that after 12 years you really not have excuse of temporary regime anymore.

Um-that's how elections work you know. If the people want you to stay in charge, 'turn it down' is the only thing you can do.
Helmut fucking Kohl was Bundeskanzler for 16 years. And the man was a moron.

I see nothing wrong with their son being groomed for politics.

*cough* Dubya Bush *cough*

Which had...nothing whatsoever to do with Dubya being groomed for politics and everything with him being elected despite being incompetent.

If Roman system of rule got one thing right, it was giving the reins to most qualified person, not to who the previous guy in charge managed to spawn. Once they got bright ideas of leadership being decided by either penis of the top guy or the swords of their most elite military unit, everything kind of went downward, fast. Here, we have both, happening at the same time.
You know, they might be most talented and all, but virtually every single government based on familial ties humans tried ended up with tears, if not immediately on Glorious Leader's resignation, then on his replacement's.

You are presupposing that Sheridan and Delenn's son would get the job because he's their son, as opposed to actually being qualified for it 'thanks' to having been groomed for the job.

It is not Nepotism if your best friends are also the singularly most qualified people in the Galaxy want the post, and who the other various galactic powers will accept.

Imagine, if you will, Michelle Obama being tremendously talented lawyer.
Then imagine certain Barack promoting her to post in SCOTUS. No problem, right?

No, since the Senate has to actually confirm that nomination.

...except, I sort of picture colossal shitstorm that would have followed this would have drowned everything US politics saw to that point. Democracies have rules on banning combining posts and handing offices to family for a reason, qualifications or not.

Quote me one. Quote me a single law that says people can't hold office just because they're related to someone else in the government.

This might be EU vs US bias, as positions in government in USA seem to be independent feudal princedoms of whoever gets them, but why you need to hand all the top spots to your posse?

You will now point out the better candidates for those jobs Sheridan had available at the time.

[Lord Revan]

It is also worth noting that Sheridan turned down running for a third term (terms last ~ 5-6 years).

The very fact he had to 'turn it down' says something was very wrong with the law, especially seeing that after 12 years you really not have excuse of temporary regime anymore.

Um-that's how elections work you know. If the people want you to stay in charge, 'turn it down' is the only thing you can do.
Helmut fucking Kohl was Bundeskanzler for 16 years. And the man was a moron.

President Kekkonen served for 26 years(from 1956 to 1982) with 6 year terms (his last term got cut short when he became too ill to do his job) and Finland has been democratic since becoming independent in 1917.

and do I need to remind people there's no international law that states that your nation or organization must have 2 term limit to be considered democratic. For all we know they had no set term limit (IIRC USA didn't have one until 1945 cause they thought they didn't need one, there was only the tradition of presidents serving only 2 terms).

[bilateralrope]

It is also worth noting that Sheriden turned down running for a third term (terms last ~ 5-6 years).

The very fact he had to 'turn it down' says something was very wrong with the law, especially seeing that after 12 years you really not have excuse of temporary regime anymore.

It might just be that he was still popular enough 12 years later that he was sure to win if he ran.

Or the system might not be democratic. Look at the three major powers in forming the ISA:
- Narn. I don't recall how their government is organised.
- Centuari. Ruled by a heredity nobility.
- Minbari. They have a caste system, a very powerful religious caste, the very identity of their ruling council is kept secret.

That's two that are definitely not democracies and one that I don't know about.

Ethics don't make someone good organizer. For example, the doctor guy would have been better placed as vice-minister responsible for whatever he is good for under good supervisor overseeing whole institution and taking Franklin's advice in that particular field. Use his strengths, not face. Of course, then we wouldn't see wish fulfilment fantasy pandering to fans of that particular character.

He was dealing with medical information the various species had previously kept to himself. Being able to show what he was willing to risk to prevent compromising his own ethics probably went a long way to convincing people to share that information without fear that it would be used against them.

Do we know if Franklin kept that position for long ?

[Alyrium Denryle]

The very fact he had to 'turn it down' says something was very wrong with the law, especially seeing that after 12 years you really not have excuse of temporary regime anymore.

Not if you are good at your job and popular enough to be elected again. There is nothing inherently wrong with a lack of term limits.

*cough* Dubya Bush *cough*

*cough* Irrelevant *cough*

Here, let me give you a list of competent people who were groomed for politics.

Augustus Caesar
Marcus Aurelius
John Quincy Adams (though he was a better legislator than a president)
Edward III of England
Henry V of England

Various other monarchs through history

Some people who are groomed for politics are competent. Some are not. There is nothing inherently wrong with the child of a politician themselves being a politician.

Imagine, if you will, Michelle Obama being tremendously talented lawyer.

Then imagine certain Barack promoting her to post in SCOTUS. No problem, right?

Is he nominating her because she is his wife, or because she is the best jurist in the country? Also, the senate has to confirm the nomination.

You know, they might be most talented and all, but virtually every single government based on familial ties humans tried ended up with tears, if not immediately on Glorious Leader's resignation, then on his replacement's.

Except in the ISA, it is not based on familial ties. The office of the president is an elected position. David Sheridan ran for office and got elected fairly.

Ethics don't make someone good organizer.

Except Dr. Franklin was both, and the best and most experienced xenobiologist in the galaxy to boot. This is a dude who cured the Markab plague inside a few days. Not soon enough for the Markab, but it was soon enough to save the Pak'Mara. Their Entire Species.

Who the hell else is there for that position? No one.

[Balrog]

Or the system might not be democratic. Look at the three major powers in forming the ISA:
- Narn. I don't recall how their government is organised.

G'Kar said the Kha'Ri "spoke with equal voices" when they tried to make him a dictator. Although I don't recall how exactly one becomes a member of the Kha'Ri, it sounds democratic in part.

[Bedlam]

Or the system might not be democratic. Look at the three major powers in forming the ISA:
- Narn. I don't recall how their government is organised.

G'Kar said the Kha'Ri "spoke with equal voices" when they tried to make him a dictator. Although I don't recall how exactly one becomes a member of the Kha'Ri, it sounds democratic in part.

I don't know if it was ever formally defined in the series, I think one of the books makes mention that the highest leadership was a hereditary caste that had been kept alive during the first Centari occupation but which may have been wiped out during the second occupation. It sounded like most of the rest of the government was something like a meritocracy. It has been a very long time since I read it though.