Volume of Xyston-class Star Destroyer?

[Patroklos]

I used to enjoy massaging in universe canon explanations into such thing like the TROS finale battle, but where the hell do you start with that dumpster fire?

[Gandalf]

I used to enjoy massaging in universe canon explanations into such thing like the TROS finale battle, but where the hell do you start with that dumpster fire?

Start with the easiest ones, and work your way up.

[Vendetta]

Though 'you're above a planet, maybe point the ship away from it and step on the gas' isn't that much of an intellectual leap

The First Order gets its staff by kidnapping children, and they've just had to crew up a zillion new Star Destroyers without the, generously, 10 years they'd need to know about that in advance, so chances are they're being driven by people who can't reach the pedals and look out of the window at the same time yet.

[Batman]

I kinda assumed that Palpy had the crews along with the ships and the First Order just provided key command personnel.
Amusing idea though

[MKSheppard]

And then JJ shows up and say "hey that X-wing, we can use that" - so now Pablo has to make up new bullshit(and I'm sure he will come up with some) because we have to make bullshit in order to get that sweet sweet nerd money

Pablo (and lots of other people, including me) probably assumed the X-Wing was trash, because there's a big difference between a temporary 24-72 hour immersion (the X-Wing has to be pressure proof for space travel and re-entry, so some immersion won't hurt it) and what was implied in TLJ.

TLJ implied that it had been down there for YEARS. That would've required a thorough depot level checkout before being safe for flight again.

[MKSheppard]

That's because the Eclipse was such a fugly design.
As for why they went with the Imperator best guess they already had the mesh thanks to Rogue One and were too lazy/cheap/pressed for time to build something new.

They're fucking ILM working on a Star Wars movie. They'd have time and money.

[MKSheppard]

Story Group: "Hey, how about we use the Base Delta Zero, which has been in the Star Wars Canon since the release of the Imperial Sourcebook, 1st Edition in October 1989?"

If Army commanders deem the surface situation to be beyond hope of victory, or if the proper political authorities directly command it, the Navy is to execute a series of punitive attacks upon the target. The attacks are given code names which vary according to the mission and change frequently. The only code name which has not yet changed is "Base Delta Zero," the code for complete destruction of all "assets of production," including factories, arable land, mines, fisheries, and all sentient beings and droids. The code name has not yet changed so there can be no possibility of confusion when a Base Delta Zero is ordered.

JJABRAMS: *stares*

*Story group gets thrown out a window*

JJABRAMS : "we'll bolt a big ass gun to the bottom of a star destroyer!"

[MKSheppard]

Yeah, original Death Star was massive overkill. I have read it explained as that you basically need that amount of overkill to break through high end planetary shields so it may be justified

This is something that I'd like to point out.

There were initial hints in ANH as to the power of the Death Star:

MOTTI:
Dangerous to your starfleet, Commander, not to this battle station!

HAN
The entire starfleet couldn't destroy the whole planet. It'd take a thousand ships with more fire power than I've...

But the rationale for the Death Star's return in ROTJ as a plot device was never adequately explained at the time (1983).

It wasn't until the advent of cheap, affordable digitizing hardware for computers that allowed screencaps of VHS and laserdiscs to enable the fandom (meaning Saxton and Wong) to do the numbers on just how powerful the Death Star was, along with the discovery of a planetary shield (or evidence of it) around Alderaan that was capable of briefly resisting the Death Star's superlaser.

With those calculations on power output for both the Death Star, and the resistance for Alderaan's shielding -- there was already earlier canon proof for shields in ESB:

VEERS
My lord, the fleet has moved out of light-speed. Com-Scan has detected an energy field protecting an area around the sixth planet of the Hoth system. The field is strong enough to deflect any bombardment.

If a semi-portable, hacked together energy shield run by Rebels was powerful enough to stop bombardment by a full Imperial battle squadron (including EXECUTOR), what would the capabilities of a dedicated, funded planetary shield by a Tier I interstellar government (aka Alderaanian government) be?

A planet like Alderaan would then be capable of withstanding any siege by a hostile force almost indefinitely (or long enough for help to arrive), since they'd be able to grow their own food, etc.

The Death Star was the Star Wars' universe's equivalent of the trebuchet against the Alderaanian castle; and from that realization, a lot of the canon "explanations" from the late 90s to early 2000s sprung forth.

That's why so many people were upset by TLJ, because Rian Johnston basically destroyed all that -- people on a gun board (of all places) were pointing out with that tactic, what was the point of a Death Star, when you could put hyperdrives onto asteroids and try ramming planets with them?

[MKSheppard]

I actually don't know that I would. TROS has removed the Star Wars monkey from my back. I have no more interest in the series and feel happier for it. I'm free.

If by "TROS" you mean the "Sequel Trilogy", same here. I'm no longer really interested in SW -- i'd have been watching MANGALORIAN even just six years ago unbidden; but now? Meh. I"ll wait for blu ray.

[Patroklos]

Though 'you're above a planet, maybe point the ship away from it and step on the gas' isn't that much of an intellectual leap

The First Order gets its staff by kidnapping children, and they've just had to crew up a zillion new Star Destroyers without the, generously, 10 years they'd need to know about that in advance, so chances are they're being driven by people who can't reach the pedals and look out of the window at the same time yet.

That’s only First Order storm troops, and the ISDs were already crewed protests to the First Order’s arrival red stormtroopers and all, so it’s irrelevant

[Vendetta]

Though 'you're above a planet, maybe point the ship away from it and step on the gas' isn't that much of an intellectual leap

The First Order gets its staff by kidnapping children, and they've just had to crew up a zillion new Star Destroyers without the, generously, 10 years they'd need to know about that in advance, so chances are they're being driven by people who can't reach the pedals and look out of the window at the same time yet.

That’s only First Order storm troops, and the ISDs were already crewed protests to the First Order’s arrival red stormtroopers and all, so it’s irrelevant

Though of course that raises the question of why Grampa Palps needed the First Order at all, because he's got a zillion Star Destroyers fully crewed and operational all ready to do his bidding and they can all blow up planets. The First Order contribute literally nothing to his plans at all and never did. He doesn't even really want Ben as an apprentice because he's after his dear granddaughter really.

[Batman]

Well if there's one thing nobody's ever going to accuse the sequels of it's 'they overthought things'

[Patroklos]

The First Order gets its staff by kidnapping children, and they've just had to crew up a zillion new Star Destroyers without the, generously, 10 years they'd need to know about that in advance, so chances are they're being driven by people who can't reach the pedals and look out of the window at the same time yet.

That’s only First Order storm troops, and the ISDs were already crewed protests to the First Order’s arrival red stormtroopers and all, so it’s irrelevant

Though of course that raises the question of why Grampa Palps needed the First Order at all, because he's got a zillion Star Destroyers fully crewed and operational all ready to do his bidding and they can all blow up planets. The First Order contribute literally nothing to his plans at all and never did. He doesn't even really want Ben as an apprentice because he's after his dear granddaughter really.

Like I said, why even bother rationalizing.

An interesting note, I remember pride saying in the conference scene that the Sith ships would increase their power 10,000 times. I read this as 10,000 times the distant order all told, though it seems people take this as just 10,000 destroyers only. Did I hear the dialogue wrong?

[Eternal_Freedom]

I think the exact wording was "this deal will increase our strength ten thousand fold." Given the surprising number of Resurgents the First Order had, that must be a shitton of new ISDs.

Also...one thing I haven't seen anyone comment on yet about Palps and Rey: she's his granddaughter, which means he had a kid. Which is fairly squicky at the best of times, but why exactly where Rey's parents on the run from him? If one or both of them are Palp's children, surely he'd have had them fully indoctrinated to not run away from him?

[Patroklos]

Eh, rebelling children is a pretty tried and true thing in both fiction and real life. I am more interested in Palpatine having children at all. I don't know how old the parents are but they looked like twenty-somethings, maybe low thirties 15-20 years before the events of TFA. That means Palps was getting it on sometime long before the OT, maybe a decade or more, as an already gross an overtly evil ancient dude (monstery even by prequel lore). Old guys can certainly father children, but I don't see it. If he really wanted children and heirs he can create them from whole cloth like Snoke. That seems more the style for this Dark Empire/Lovecraftian themed Palpatine of TROS.

And it's not like we knew about these children in any other lore, and they don't look like Sith monster babies, so why were they kept secret? The Empire is a monarchy after all, and one of the key points of the old EU was there was no natural successor leading the Empire's fracture and infighting. That was actually a good way engineer the Empire's breakup and leave the post ROTJ environment not only rife with narrative opportunities to explore but also explain away some of the maximum/minimalism incongruity between the depictions of the Empire and Rebels/Alliance, and how the Alliance was able to become the NR in the chaos despite their diminutive size vs the 99.9% of the Empire that remained. And yeah in the EU Palpatine did that on purpose because he was supposed to live forever and a successor would just invite descent and challenges to his power at some point. But then why keep his heirs alive at all, secret or no?

As for the ship numbers, I am glad I heard that right. So that means there were probably more like hundreds of thousands to millions of ISDs, or their equivalent in other forces. It's not like ISD-Is are some common denominations of military power. Part of me is saying "Yay, take the minimalism!" as we have NEVER seen numbers like this canonized via films before. Then again, at the same time, I am thinking how ridiculously stupid the Rebels winning at the end of TROS is above and beyond the already astounding stupidity of its depiction before realizing this.

[Galvatron]

Also...one thing I haven't seen anyone comment on yet about Palps and Rey: she's his granddaughter, which means he had a kid. Which is fairly squicky at the best of times, but why exactly where Rey's parents on the run from him? If one or both of them are Palp's children, surely he'd have had them fully indoctrinated to not run away from him?

I raised the subject, but the thread was locked.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 7#p4092327

And as gross as he may have been, he was still the Emperor of the galaxy. That kind of power tends to negate a lot of superficial judgments about physical attractiveness.

[MKSheppard]

And as gross as he may have been, he was still the Emperor of the galaxy. That kind of power tends to negate a lot of superficial judgments about physical attractiveness.

Let's look at this objectively.

Palpatine wasn't gross until after THE JEDI BETRAYAL (TM). He was a kindly old man who wasn't (that) bad looking before he ate his own force lighting, so it's believable that he had a semi-official mistress to keep up appearances in gossip; since you can't put "Studies of the Dark Side of the Force" as your "I did this this year." for the tabloids.

So looking at the timeline:

ABY Event
-84 Palpatine Born
-32 Phantom Menace
-22 Attack of the Clones
-19 Revenge of the Sith
0 ANH
4 ROTJ
15 Rey Born
34 Force Awakens

At the minimum, his son has to have been born 19 BBY (-19); so he'd be about 23 when the Death Star II explodes over Endor.

That then makes him about 34 years old when Rey is born. Add a few years onto that for the abandonment of Rey on Jakku; and, it kind of works actually.

That's as much as I'm going to try and "fixit" this shitpile.

[Galvatron]

Since a lot of people were convinced that Rey was Luke's daughter without any reservations, it makes just as much sense that her actual father was around Luke's age.

In real life, her father is portrayed by 30-year old actor Billy Howle. Not that it really matters since actors play younger/older roles all the time.

[Galvatron]

For what it's worth, here's a high-res scan of the Xyston page from the VD for analysis...

Spoiler

[Q99]

It has a significant visual modification even if it is a ISD base hull, so such a person would get it anyway.

Where did this underslung thing come from anyway? Two movies now with they same stupid idea. Obviously anyone with any sci-fi cred would have gone with a spinal mount.

I'm thinking 1) to make it better for anti-ship work, and 2) the ones in TLJ are likely a precursor design on the same research path.


Could also be matters like isolating the ship from side-effects of being too near the gun when it fires.

[Patroklos]

If it were the same research path the FO officers wouldn’t have been surprised by the Final Order. Unless we want to believe the FO has no idea where their tech comes from, yet can operate and maintain it.

[Galvatron]

Maybe the Sith Eternal funneled resources to the First Order through Snoke?

[Patroklos]

Yeah but then who built the ships? Who understood the tech enough to build the ships? Etc.

It’s too stupid to think the millions of beings of the FO that would have to be intimately familiar with the tech to have just shrugged their shoulders and watched the training video. If this is really the stupidity we are going with, it would have to be a grand conspiracy involving every major leader of the FO and be a major plot point. We know this isn’t the case because we have the major leadership of the FO in the conference scene, including a mind reader, and they know nothing of this.

Also why would one backward and isolated world be the likely tech source over the entire FO? The reverse is more likely and a far smaller conspiracy: the FO was feeding Exowhatever it’s tech and resources.

[Galvatron]

Yeah but then who built the ships? Who understood the tech enough to build the ships? Etc.

Even ignoring all the VDs, TLJ heavily implied that the FO buys their tech from arms dealers.

[Patroklos]

That just blows up the question even more. If random third party arms merchants are providing planet killing weaponry, there is no reaso everyone doesn’t have it. Or at least knows about it’s existence.

And first rate powers don’t outsource their primary armaments unless you go back to pre-industrial age. First rate powers are the primary arms dealers, actually, in scenarios where there are likely second tier buyers.

Even in the scene you allude too, we see nothing over star fighter scale. Rose made a giant leap in assuming that was even a relevant fraction of anyone’s armaments or the source of the wealth around her. Rose is a known fucking idiot, so who cares what she thinks.