The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by chimericoncogene »

Crazedwraith wrote: 2021-01-05 06:47am
Hyperlanes are EU horseshit and I did look for that kind of horseshit but the map is so busy I couldn't make out there was a route going that way under the territory blobs.
Au contrarie. It is in the interests of freeform storytelling that we must contrive to stuff hyperlanes into the setting. Hyperlanes enable the formation of Sectors (which would otherwise have little permanence and physical structure), provide reasons for slow, sector-scale operational warfare (multi-system campaigns and strategic sieges and envelopments) amongst the stars, and allow for piracy and commerce raiding.

Modifications to the hyperlane system, such as the ones outlined in my post on the possible Fractal Bush Model viewtopic.php?f=3&t=170376, allow for arbitrary instant travel between well-trafficked areas (with complete ignorance of the hyperlane system) or even arbitrarily defined jumps under arbitrarily defined conditions while still permitting hyperlanes to exist for other stories. By adding variable and continuous criteria for properties of hyperlanes and hyperspace, we can keep Star Wars fun and flexible for all the family while setting up interesting scenarios!
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Crazedwraith »

Well that's even more horseshit 'we have to have this so I can pretend the setting is the way I want to see it rather than the way it is'
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Patroklos »

Let's be honest. Once the property was sold to Disney and especially once they decided to scrap the whole EU there is no need to assiduously respect canon. The previous regime existed out of the inertia from respect for the original creator and the personal connection millions of fans had with the material. It was fragile given some of the shit included but maintained and enforced by the fandom anyway and this was one of the places it happened back in the day.

Nobody respects the new regime, certainly not as corporate profit-seekers but also not as creators. The stream of consciousness from the original story connecting people to the fictional universe was severed, shattering any illusions that canon policing is something anyone needs to do anymore. Reject whatever you want, nobody needs to be forced to accept every stupid thing these talentless hacks cough up for a quick buck anymore.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by chimericoncogene »

Crazedwraith wrote: 2021-01-05 09:01am Well that's even more horseshit 'we have to have this so I can pretend the setting is the way I want to see it rather than the way it is'
"Contrive to stuff" were my exact words.

The Fractal Bush model is supposed to allow everyone to pretend the setting is the way they want to see it rather than the way is "is". By adjusting a few simple arbitrary parameters and twisting a few knobs, you should be able to squeeze many kinds of hyperspace usage out of the model for a particular story or game or scenario while using more-or-less the same mental framework.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by channel73 »

The series has a bad habit of constantly returning to Tatooine. I mean, if you ask me, I don't think even Anakin from the Prequels should have been from Tatooine. But whatever.

This is just a symptom of a larger problem that has become more pronounced lately with Disney. Most of their "original" ideas and characters have largely failed to produce significant long-term enthusiasm (partly reflected in things like merchandising sales), so they constantly have to fall back on OT imagery. Their most successful "original" character, the Mandalorian, is basically just a new iteration of Boba Fett. Baby Yoda is also "original" to some extent, but he is popular mostly for the same reason Gizmo from Gremlins was popular.

That said, I really liked the Krayt dragon episode. I wish THAT had been the first time they re-visited Tatooine instead of the mostly useless episode back in Season 1. I like how Mandalorian mostly stays within the backwater Outer Rim worlds, but I'd appreciate it more if they stayed with original planets, like Navarro. I also didn't like how they just transplanted Jawas to other worlds, instead of inventing new interesting aliens. And constantly going to the Mos Eisley Cantina is just too much... I mean... just stop.

Like that random planet in Episode 8 that looked like a Savannah with large smoke stacks in the background, where they met up with Bo-Katan and her crew... that planet looked original and interesting. Why can't we spend more time there instead of constantly going back to George Lucas' greatest hits?
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Galvatron »

chimericoncogene wrote: 2021-01-05 06:36am
Galvatron wrote: 2021-01-05 05:32am The planetary locations on that map are also at odds with the one in Pablo Hidalgo's TROS VD.
Because Disney Canon sucks balls and dumping the Legends map did nobody any favors.
Here's another canon map from the 2019 Smuggler's Guide. This one includes trade routes.

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Galvatron »

So it looks like Gideon's cruiser isn't an Arquitens after all.

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Juubi Karakuchi »

With regard to Hyperdrive, Light of the Jedi has been unexpectedly helpful.
Spoiler
We learn that hyperspace lanes exist because that's all that a conventional navicomputer and hyperdrive can handle. Marchion Ro's 'Paths' allow for greater speed and flexibility - including being able to move in and out of gravity wells - but requires two things. One is a hyperdrive upgrade called a 'Path Engine', and the other is Mari San Tekka, a brilliant hyperspace navigator who he keeps in a life support machine; basically serving as a living navicomputer. Curious that this should come out a month after the intended release of the new Dune movie. :mrgreen:
Galvatron wrote: 2021-01-19 09:36pm So it looks like Gideon's cruiser isn't an Arquitens after all.

So, it looks like an Arquitens, but it isn't an Arquitens. Well, the Providence class cruiser comes in two sizes, so I suppose that's nothing unusual. That said, considering that the SW universe is sufficiently high-tech for form to outweigh function, it probably doesn't make much difference. There could be an Arquitens lookalike that's somewhat larger, but looks pretty much the same on the outside.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Patroklos »

This was only ever canon on screne as low rez blocky cheap animation before this right?
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by chimericoncogene »

I really, really hate when they build two ships that look exactly the same but have different dimensions.
You can lengthen a hull, you can cut bits of it out, you can add to it, but you cannot just scale it 2x in every dimension and call it a variant. That's just moronic.
It looks like an Arquetians, it's about three hundred meters long, the size of a Nimitz, and everything else is a scaling error.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Juubi Karakuchi »

Patroklos wrote: 2021-01-20 11:01am This was only ever canon on screne as low rez blocky cheap animation before this right?
I can confirm that. Its previous appearances were in Clone Wars and then Rebels. This was its first live-action appearance.
chimericoncogene wrote: 2021-01-20 11:26am I really, really hate when they build two ships that look exactly the same but have different dimensions.
You can lengthen a hull, you can cut bits of it out, you can add to it, but you cannot just scale it 2x in every dimension and call it a variant. That's just moronic.
It looks like an Arquetians, it's about three hundred meters long, the size of a Nimitz, and everything else is a scaling error.
It happened with the Providence, but that ship only got one live-action appearance - in ROTS. Once again, it could be put down to an animation/scaling error. And yes, this ship really should be able to carry fighters internally; it's the size of an aircraft carrier, and TIEs are actually smaller than many modern jets.

It's actually not all that much of a scaling error. The older variant had its fighters sitting between the forward 'mandibles' and dropping down to launch. With Gideon's variant, the gap was just wide enough for TIE fighters to launch; so the gap can't have been much bigger, if it was bigger at all.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Patroklos »

I don't care enough to scale the windows. As long as they didn't just scale the whole model, but kept known standard objects the same, I can hand wave it.

Sith ISDs, however, are just that stupid.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Juubi Karakuchi »

Patroklos wrote: 2021-01-20 12:18pm I don't care enough to scale the windows. As long as they didn't just scale the whole model, but kept known standard objects the same, I can hand wave it.

Sith ISDs, however, are just that stupid.
I'd say that's reasonable. The differences with the animated shows can be put down to scaling error or art style. After all, we are not seriously expected to take anime tropes like huge eyes and punching people into low-earth-orbit as real, so allowances can be made for Clone Wars and Rebels; whose style is not ultra-realistic.

If you're talking about the Xyston class, that was a definite disappointment. The concept makes sense for what Palpatine wants to do, but that model is just plain boring. They bothered to come up with something new for the Resurgent class (though other FO classes were unimpressive), so why not the Xyston?
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Patroklos »

Exactly, moving back between art styles and production values is bound to cause issues, though basic things like overall length could be maintained.

The Xystron doesn't make sense in any way/shape/form, but there is a difference between me having a concept idea disagreement with the movie makers and them just being lazy assholes that don't care (though it's easy to argue the creative impulse behind the concept was also just laziness).

They are being stupid in both instances, but for different reasons.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Galvatron »

Meh, I have no problem with Gideon's cruiser being of a larger class with a superficial resemblance to the Arquitens. After all, for a long time the Victory-class was basically just a smaller ISD with a few extra parts attached to make it look more distinctive.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Patroklos »

How so? The oldest source I have handy depicting a Victory is the Imperial Sourcebook and while having a similar hull form its not the same hullform and all the details are distinct. It's not just a global 3D upscale (for obvious reasons).
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Galvatron »

Depictions certainly vary, but just look at the pics on the Wookieepedia entry:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Victor ... _Destroyer

Aside from the "wings" and the protrusions on the conning tower, the untrained eye could easily mistake a Victory for an ISD.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by chimericoncogene »

Galvatron wrote: 2021-01-22 02:48am Meh, I have no problem with Gideon's cruiser being of a larger class with a superficial resemblance to the Arquitens. After all, for a long time the Victory-class was basically just a smaller ISD with a few extra parts attached to make it look more distinctive.
It's not quite bigger. I mean, the Arquetians-class escort is 300 meters long, the size of a friggin' Nimitz. The original was already pretty large.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Galvatron »

I agree, but the hangar between the mandibles simply doesn't square with what was shown in the Rebels cartoon.

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That is, unless a Sentinel-class shuttle is significantly larger than the Lambda that landed inside Gideon's cruiser.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Lord Revan »

IIRC they share the cockpit module so the sentinel can't be that much larger and everything I saw in legends made the Sentinel really just a lambda with an extended hull.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by RogueIce »

Wasn't that landing kind of a tight fit? The Sentinel is a fair bit wider and probably taller than a landing-configured Lambda from the looks of it.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Batman »

Since the shuttle they took looked like a bog-standard Lambda why are we talking about the Sentinel? They fucking called in their emergency landing request as a Lambda
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by RogueIce »

Batman wrote: 2021-01-24 08:01pm Since the shuttle they took looked like a bog-standard Lambda why are we talking about the Sentinel? They fucking called in their emergency landing request as a Lambda
Because it's about whether Gideon's cruiser was a "new class" because it could fit a Lambda vs. the existing light cruisers we had seen, which clearly weren't fitting a Sentinel.

So if the Sentinel is bigger in a significant sense, and if my memory of the scene was correct - that the Lambda barely fits -then that doesn't necessarily speak to whether or not Gideon's cruiser is a "resized Arquitens" or not.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Batman »

Depends on your definition of 'barely fits'. There wasn't a 'lot' of spare spare space when they landed and I'd hate to be the pilot to TRY that landing, but the shuttle did NOT touch the walls or roof of the landing tunnel. I'd certainly call it a 'very' tight fit.
And from what I can tell the Sentinel is merely 'longer' than the Lambda, not wider or taller. It's basically the same spaceframe with a bit more fuselage added on forward of the wings.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by RogueIce »

Batman wrote: 2021-01-24 08:41pm And from what I can tell the Sentinel is merely 'longer' than the Lambda, not wider or taller. It's basically the same spaceframe with a bit more fuselage added on forward of the wings.
Eh, the bottom looks a bit chunkier but I don't have a handy head-on shot of one landed like there is the Lambda, courtesy of Episode VI.

But whatever. For my money Gideon's cruiser is as much a "new cruiser class" as every comic artist's half-assed rendition of a background ISD was a new Star Destroyer class. They're clearly meant to be the same basic ship. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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