The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by MKSheppard » 2020-03-20 07:50pm

So. I'm fucked. :P

https://patch.com/maryland/silverspring ... rus-triage
SILVER SPRING, MD — Six hospitals in Montgomery County are erecting triage tents outside their facilities as they brace for an expected influx of new coronavirus cases.

The number of confirmed cases in the affluent suburb of 1.1 million climbed to 31 on Wednesday. And county health officials say the worst is yet to come.

In an effort to flatten the curve, county first responders and the National Guard are pitching tents outside:

Adventist HealthCare White Oak Medical Center in Silver Spring;
Suburban Hospital in Bethesda;
Adventist HealthCare Shady Grove Medical Center in Rockville;
Holy Cross Hospital in Silver Spring;
Holy Cross Hospital in Germantown; and
Medstar Montgomery Medical Center in Olney

Dr. Travis Gayles, the county health officer, said the tents will give hospital staff more space to triage, test, and screen patients who may have COVID-19 and minimize exposure to anyone inside the facilities.

"The hospitals are taking steps that are a traditional part of preparedness exercise when we have an infectious disease outbreak, at this point a pandemic," said Gayles. "So the steps they are taking is to put up tents to be able to triage patients who have symptoms that are concerning for COVID-19, to create a larger space to be able to triage, screen and test those individuals. It also creates an opportunity to alleviate exposure to anyone who is in an emergency room or in the hospital setting and allows us to free up capacity in the emergency rooms for other patients."
https://patch.com/maryland/silverspring ... oronavirus
ILVER SPRING, MD — Montgomery County Executive Marc Elrich on Friday announced that the "we are one step away from sheltering in place."

The Democrat made the remarks at a 12:30 p.m. press conference in Silver Spring. He is advising all residents to avoid gatherings of more than 10 people.

As of Friday afternoon, Montgomery County had 51 confirmed cases of the coronavirus, bringing the state's total to 149.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by MKSheppard » 2020-03-20 07:52pm

The NICS check system is crashing/heavily delayed.

Normally, it's a 5 minute "instant" check system. Now, it's 1.5 hours on average to move something through it.

Gee, thanks NRA!
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by bilateralrope » 2020-03-20 08:39pm

'We've got a moat': Tasmania cuts itself off from Australia
SYDNEY (Reuters) - Australia’s southern island state of Tasmania is quarantining itself from the mainland to stop the spread of coronavirus - after Saturday anyone who enters, even from elsewhere in the country, will have to spend 14 days in isolation.

“We’ve got a moat, and we’re not afraid to use it,” read the front page of Tasmania’s The Mercury newspaper on Friday, after state premier Peter Gutwein declared a state of emergency and the “toughest border restrictions in Australia”.

Australia requires all people returning from overseas to self-isolate for 14-days and is banning all foreigners and non-residents from entering from Friday night, but no other state has imposed restrictions on domestic travel.

As of Friday, Tasmania had 10 cases of COVID-19, with no fatalities. The national total is 785 cases and 7 deaths.

The restrictions however will not apply to the Aurora Australis, carrying 55 Antarctic expeditioners and 26 crew, which is due to dock on Tuesday. Many of the expeditioners have spent 12 months living on sub-Antarctic Macquarie Island conducting scientific research.

“They have been in splendid isolation,” said Australian Antarctic Division operations manager Robb Clifton.

As well as people travelling directly from Australia’s bases in Antarctica, Tasmania will exempt health, emergency and transport workers from its quarantine requirement.

Australia’s three bases on the Antarctic continent, Mawson, Davis and Casey, have been “completely cut off,” Clifton said.

“These expeditioners and the people on the International Space Station are probably the most secure people in the human population,” he said.

Tasmania is a one-hour flight or 10-hour ferry crossing from the mainland city of Melbourne, 445 km (275 miles) away.

Forty per cent of the island is wilderness or protected areas.

Qantas Airways is reducing flights to Tasmania from March 29, but the island’s ferry service will continue to carry freight to and from the mainland.

“We will have the essential supplies we need,” Gutwein told local media.

Tourism, international students, seafood and dairy are Tasmania’s major exports, with China a major customer.

Tasmania-based Huon Aquaculture , which produces 19,000 tonnes of fish a year from coastal salmon farms, is classified as an “essential service” under the new border rules, which gives it priority access to freight space.

Online sales for Huon’s salmon doubled in March as anxiety over food supply gripped mainland Australia.

“Remember that everyone has to eat,” founder Peter Bender said in an email to staff.

“People might be unable to go to the pub, the movies, or visit a sporting venue but they still have to eat.”

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy » 2020-03-20 08:58pm

After Trump's announcement that chloroquine (an anti malarial drug with some immunosuppressive properties) can be used to treat covid 19... people are now poisoning themselves with it.

https://www.africanews.com/2020/03/20/n ... -recovers/
March 20: Chloroquine posioning in Lagos
An official of Nigeria’s Lagos State government has disclosed that hospitals are receiving patients suffering from chloroquine poisoning.

Oreoluwa Finnih, a Senior Special Assistant to Lagos governor has thus urged the public to desist from using the anti-malaria drug as a measure of preventing coronavirus infection. In Nigeria reports indicate that the drug’s price has been hiked since the news broke.

Chloroquine has been gaining traction on social media since some news agencies reported it had been approved for the COVID-19 pandemic.

The outlets cited U.S. president Donald Trump as making the claims. America’s Food and Drugs Authority, FDA, has since disclaimed the assertion saying the drug has not been cleared for any such purpose.
Jesus. Chloroquine is still being investigated as a treatment. Zhejiang university has some protocols for the use of this drug, so I am going to cut and paste from their handbook. BTW Zhejiang province had a fatality rate of 0.08% as of yesterday.

chloroquine phosphate can be used on adults
between 18-65 years old (weight<! so kg: 500 mg bid; weight ~so kg: 500 mg bid for first two days, 500 mg qd for following five days).
The treatment course of chloroquine phosphate should be no more than 7 days.
I don't know how much these people are taking, but I bet you there are thinking, the higher the better.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Eulogy » 2020-03-20 09:18pm

mr friendly guy wrote:
2020-03-20 08:58pm
After Trump's announcement that chloroquine (an anti malarial drug with some immunosuppressive properties) can be used to treat covid 19... people are now poisoning themselves with it.
I do wonder how many of those idiots are members of the Trump Cult.

In other news, the pandemic was apparently good for the environment:
Air pollution drops as countries shut down amid spread of COVID-19

Large drops of nitrogen dioxide seen over Italy and China

It's a surreal sight: Webcams from across Italy show normally packed tourist destinations, streets and beaches empty, scenes that seem more aligned with a movie than real life.

In the battle against COVID-19, countries around the world are restricting gatherings, encouraging people to work from home and closing public venues. Italy is under lockdown.

All of these actions are having quantifiable consequences, particularly in our environment, scientists believe.

The change was first noticed over Wuhan, China, the city that first reported incidents of the new coronavirus that leads to the COVID-19 disease.

Satellite observations found that nitrogen dioxide (NO2) levels had dropped by 10 to 30 per cent between Jan. 1 and Feb. 25. NO2 emissions are produced by cars, trucks and power plants, among other human-related activities. While NO2 is also produced naturally, it accounts for just one per cent of total emissions.

"This is the first time I have seen such a dramatic drop-off over such a wide area for a specific event," Fei Liu, an air quality researcher at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, said in early March.

While some of the reduction was linked to Chinese New Year celebrations, when many people were on holiday away from work, what surprised scientists was the fact that, after the holiday, NO2 emissions did not rise.

But that wasn't the only thing that had dropped. Particulate matter 2.5 (PM 2.5), a fine particle in the atmosphere linked to serious health issues, was also reduced.

This is particularly good news for those living in China. The country has some of the worst air pollution in the world, which is responsible for killing more than one million people annually. The United Nations estimates that globally, roughly four million people die each year because of air pollution.

Changes over northern Italy

Meanwhile, other observations by a satellite gathering information for the European Commission's European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts showed a significant NO2 drop in northern Italy.

Because of its geographical location, Italy's north — which includes the region of Lombardy, home to the country's second-most populous city, Milan — is considered one of the worst cities for air pollution in Europe.

The European Space Agency (ESA) also used the Copernicus satellite to measure NO2 over Italy. It found that NO2 decreased by 10 per cent since the lockdown began in the region.

"When you look at satellite data, if you look at the time series of nitrogen dioxide, you always see northern Italy as a kind of hotspot," said Claus Zehner, a scientist with ESA who works with Copernicus data. "We have a lot of pollution, a lot of industry and also the location [matters]."

But under a national lockdown, with most businesses closed and people relegated to being shut in, there were far fewer vehicles on the road, meaning less NO2 being pumped into the air.

Lessons to be learned?

With the concern over the climate crisis, some are wondering if this is a teachable moment.

"This is a big question that very many people are asking themselves these days: What can we learn from this pandemic or this crisis that the world is going through now?" said Kristin Aunan, a researcher at Norway's Center for International Climate Research.

"Will we learn from it and take measures to see how we can avoid getting back to normal for things that we would like to avoid?"

While not everyone is able to work from home, she noted, it could make organizations consider allowing those who can to do so.

"Hopefully we will at least change your habits in some important ways that could lead to a longer-term reduction in emissions," Aunan said.

Zehner echoed that sentiment.

"You could also do some theoretical measurements or predictions — if you say we will change all our cars to electric cars where we do not get any of these kinds of emissions. And then you could even calculate what would be the impact," he said, likening it to a test case "to check what can be done if it would change our habits."

As to what these lowered NO2 emissions might mean in terms of CO2, Zehner said we'll have to wait and see.

"You should also see reduction of greenhouse gases over this timeframe. But it's very hard to get how much," he said. "This would have to be investigated in detail. And this will be done. There will be publications on this for sure. People are working on it already."
Figures that it'd take a pandemic to force countries to stop making their air toxic.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by bilateralrope » 2020-03-20 09:21pm

The outlets cited U.S. president Donald Trump as making the claims.
Did Trump actually announce anything to do with chloroquine ?

Because that article isn't saying that he made the announcement. Only that others have said that he did.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy » 2020-03-20 09:28pm

bilateralrope wrote:
2020-03-20 09:21pm
The outlets cited U.S. president Donald Trump as making the claims.
Did Trump actually announce anything to do with chloroquine ?

Because that article isn't saying that he made the announcement. Only that others have said that he did.
Yes. Straight from the horses mouth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GuNbGC2D_8
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-03-20 10:41pm

Republicans put out a coronavirus relief bill that literally gives more money to you if you're rich:

https://newyorker.com/news/our-columnis ... l-of-holes
n Thursday afternoon, Mitch McConnell, the Senate Majority Leader, released a two-hundred-and-forty-seven-page spending bill designed to stabilize the economy during the great covid-19 shutdown. It would provide financial assistance to individuals and businesses, including direct payments of up to twelve hundred dollars for Americans who earn less than a hundred thousand dollars a year. Although the bill didn’t come with an official price tag, analysts estimated the total cost of its proposals was roughly eight hundred billion dollars.

Despite the bill’s length, its publication is merely the opening bid in a set of negotiations that will begin on Friday. With McConnell seven short of the sixty votes necessary to pass the measure, he will have to engage in some horse-trading with Democrats. As the economic fallout from the coronavirus spreads, virtually everyone on Capitol Hill now agrees that a larger-scale fiscal package is necessary. (On Wednesday, the Senate passed an emergency spending bill worth about a hundred billion dollars.) But there is a lot less agreement on what the big package should contain. The McConnell bill is slanted toward helping small businesses and large corporations. Democrats want more money for people who are losing their jobs and for states that are fighting the virus.

The New Yorker’s coronavirus news coverage and analysis are free for all readers.
On Thursday night, I spoke with Gene Sperling, who served as the head of the National Economic Council at the White House under Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. He was closely involved in discussions about the 2009 stimulus package, the bailout of Chrysler, and the payroll-tax cut of 2010. When I reached him, he had just finished reading McConnell’s bill. “As far as I can see,” Sperling said, “it has four big holes.”

The first is that the bill fails to expand paid sick leave, which was included in legislation that the Senate passed on Wednesday. Democrats had been pushing for a twelve-week eligibility period, but Republicans insisted on limiting it to two weeks with exemptions for businesses with more than five hundred employees. “If you stay home to look after a family member and at the end of two weeks you fall sick yourself, your sick leave will have run out, so you will have an incentive to return to work and infect people there,” Sperling pointed out.

That doesn’t make any sense. Neither does the fact that, under McConnell’s proposal, low-income people and the disabled would receive smaller cash payments than everybody else—as little as six hundred dollars. Sperling rightly described this feature as inexcusable. On Thursday night, even some Republicans, including Senator Josh Hawley, of Missouri, distanced themselves from the bill.

The third hole that Sperling identified is the bill’s failure to provide sufficient financial aid to states and municipalities that are in desperate need of medical supplies, protective equipment, and additional hospital capacity. With the number of covid-19 cases rising dramatically, there is also an urgent need to bolster the federal share of Medicaid, the federal health-care program that covers seventy-five million low-income American adults and children, which the states administer and partly finance. At the end of last week, I wrote about a detailed plan from a group of public-health experts and former health officials that addresses these needs. The Senate bill barely addresses them.

Given Republican recalcitrance, it may not be easy to fill these three holes. At least in theory, though, doing so would be straightforward. But the fourth issue that Sperling identified raises fundamental questions about how to deal with what is rapidly emerging as one of the biggest problems of all: mass joblessness. In California on Tuesday, eighty thousand people applied for unemployment benefits, the Los Angeles Times reported. That’s about forty times the normal rate of applications, and it won’t be long before we see similar trends in other states.

The unemployment-insurance system, which dates back to the New Deal, is the first line of defense against mass joblessness. In its current form, however, it isn’t up to the huge task at hand. Qualified workers are entitled to receive roughly half of their previous earnings, up to a certain cap, for a period of six months. But the system doesn’t cover gig workers and other self-employed individuals. To be eligible for benefits, you need to have been categorized as a wage employee at the job you lost, and, in today’s economy, many workers aren’t categorized that way. Sperling believes unemployment insurance should cover a hundred per cent of the labor force for at least the next few months.

“I’m talking to people—Uber drivers, tutors, domestic workers, people who teach yoga—and they are telling me they are losing about ninety per cent of their business through no fault of their own,” Sperling told me. Under the Republican proposal, most of these people—as well as other types of workers—would qualify to receive a direct payment of up to twelve hundred dollars, more if they have children. But, as Sperling pointed out, such a payment “is never going to be enough” for people who are likely to be out of work for months to cover the cost of their rents or mortgage payments, food, and other expenses. Last week, I raised the idea of sending out monthly checks of a thousand dollars to all Americans, which would amount to adopting a temporary version of Andrew Yang’s universal-basic-income proposal. The Senate bill only proposes a one-time payment, which would be woefully inadequate for those being hitting hardest by the virus shutdown.

Sperling and a number of other experts believe it would be quicker and fairer to enroll self-employed people in the unemployment-insurance system, at least temporarily. Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman, two economists at the University of California, Berkeley, who worked on Elizabeth Warren’s wealth tax, have put forward a plan along these lines. Under their proposal, self-employed “individuals (such as gig workers) could report themselves as idle and be eligible for this special unemployment insurance” for a limited time period.

It’s not clear whether Chuck Schumer and other prominent Democrats will get behind this suggestion. “It is one of those proposals that was considered a far-out idea a short while ago but is quickly becoming regarded as reasonable,” Mike Konczal, the director for progressive thought at the Roosevelt Institute, who has written a useful guide to the stimulus debate, told me on Thursday evening. After a remarkable couple of weeks, that analysis applies to a lot of policy proposals. At this stage, it remains unclear which ones will make it into the final stimulus legislation, even though both sides say they want to get it passed rapidly.

One item virtually certain to be included is a loan package for large companies whose businesses the pandemic has battered, such as airlines. McConnell’s bill sets aside more than two hundred billion dollars for this purpose. Companies that receive government loans would have to limit the pay of their senior executives. But this stipulation stops far short of Democratic demands that loan recipients should be required to maintain their payrolls, refrain from stock buybacks, and pay their workers a minimum wage of fifteen dollars an hour. “Any bailout should be conditioned on a set of reforms that make workers and businesses more resilient to future external shocks, and to prevent the kind of broad-based political distrust that followed from the poorly structured bailouts during the financial crisis,” Konczal wrote in his paper.

Finally, there is the question of whether this stimulus is big enough. If the covid-19 shutdown extends beyond a few weeks, which seems highly likely, it probably isn’t. Some economists are talking about an economic-rescue package of two trillion dollars, or even three trillion dollars, being needed. In other words, whatever happens in Washington during the next few days, we will likely be back here again very soon.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by loomer » 2020-03-20 11:14pm

As First Nations and Indigenous communities here and in Canada shut their borders, the US is neglecting to send even basic supplies to Native American health facilities.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-03-20 11:19pm

loomer wrote:
2020-03-20 11:14pm
As First Nations and Indigenous communities here and in Canada shut their borders, the US is neglecting to send even basic supplies to Native American health facilities.
Of course it is. If there's a way for the Trump Regime to fuck over someone, especially a member of a minority group, he'll find it. Granted, I'm not sure many of his predecessors would have done much better on this point.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by chimericoncogene » 2020-03-20 11:30pm

The most important things to stock up on should be, IMO, straight carbohydrates, essential ingredients, (salt, oil, sauces, tea, vinegar etc.), and then maybe "delicacies" (spam, baked beans, tuna, tinned sausages, etc) to add flavor if the government ends up distributing rations. Electricity, gas and water aren't going to go anytime soon (buy a kettle). Napkin-work suggests 500g of pasta should last a man one day, and ten kilos of pasta should be more than adequate to last a family of four a week (assuming you eat pretty much nothing else).

Rice in vacuum-sealed bags is much easier to stockpile than the itty-bitty pasta packets I'm familiar with, but the principles should be similar.

I did my stockpiling in January, but then again I'm the kind of guy who keeps a big pack of pasta in the hotel room even while on vacation (travel-sized portable rice cookers will cook anything, from steaks to pasta to rice).
Last edited by chimericoncogene on 2020-03-20 11:36pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-03-20 11:36pm

I bought about eight boxes/bags of pasta before this hit, plus some stuff like tuna, tomato sauce, and also cranberry sauce (need something sweet, and it lasts). Not enough for how long this is going to be, but yeah. I've got some rice as well I think.

Yeah, people stockpiling bottled water is fairly low-priority. The only scenario I can see where it would be useful is if your plumbing happened to break down and you couldn't get someone in to fix it because of the virus.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy » 2020-03-21 02:38am

You know this is going to happen. Since people found out chloroquine / hydroxychloroquine is being tested against covid, the prices have been jacked up.

https://www.ft.com/content/b7a21a16-6a1 ... 70cff6e4d3
US drugmaker doubled price on potential coronavirus treatment
Therapy touted by Trump made more expensive in January as China outbreak spread

The only US drugmaker that makes a potential treatment for the coronavirus that was touted by President Donald Trump raised the price by almost 100 per cent in January, as the virus caused havoc across China.

Rising Pharmaceuticals, a New Jersey based company, increased the price of chloroquine — an antimalarial, which is one of the drugs that is being tested against Covid-19 — on January 23, according to data from research firm Elsevier. The drug price rose 97.86 per cent to $7.66 per 250mg pill and $19.88 per 500mg pill. 

But Rising said the price rise was “coincidental” and it restored the old price once it realised that the drug might be in demand because of the outbreak. The reversal of the price lift has not yet shown through in the data. 

In an interview with the Financial Times, one executive said that the company had originally increased the price because it wanted to be able to invest in new manufacturing facilities to keep the drug on the market. 

“As soon as we saw the increase in demand and the potential that this was going to be utilised in the way some folks are projecting it to be, we rescinded that price increase to the same price it has been on the market for since 2015,” he said. 
It cost $19.88 for a 500 mg pill and $7.66 for a 250 mg pill. WTF.

https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/sea ... e=allwords

Hydroxychloroquine is brand name plaquenil. 100 tablets of 200 mg is $16.99 AUD over here. Can you say, price gouging.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by bilateralrope » 2020-03-21 02:55am

Price gouging on a drug that everybody might want, in an election year, sounds like a good way to encourage government regulation of drug pricing.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Beowulf » 2020-03-21 03:46am

So... the MFG rescinded the price increase, and it's prescription in the US, so you can't just run out to get a bunch of stock for your own use. And it's the only company that makes it in the US, so yeah, I'm not surprised that the price is a bit higher than in AU. Nevermind the fact that it's not the same drug, so you can't directly compare prices between the US and AU.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick » 2020-03-21 04:03am

loomer wrote:
2020-03-20 11:14pm
As First Nations and Indigenous communities here and in Canada shut their borders, the US is neglecting to send even basic supplies to Native American health facilities.
To be fair, they aren't sending those things to the mainstream dominant culture, either. Doctors and nurses come to my store every day asking about masks, gloves, alcohol, wipes, etc. because they can't get them anywhere else. At least in this country it's not a matter of neglecting the Natives, the Federal government is leaving everyone hanging in the wind.

Which doesn't make it OK, quite the contrary - I'm convinced the death toll in the US will be in the millions because of the greed and denial of oligarchs.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Broomstick » 2020-03-21 04:07am

chimericoncogene wrote:
2020-03-20 11:30pm
The most important things to stock up on should be, IMO, straight carbohydrates, essential ingredients, (salt, oil, sauces, tea, vinegar etc.), and then maybe "delicacies" (spam, baked beans, tuna, tinned sausages, etc) to add flavor if the government ends up distributing rations. Electricity, gas and water aren't going to go anytime soon (buy a kettle). Napkin-work suggests 500g of pasta should last a man one day, and ten kilos of pasta should be more than adequate to last a family of four a week (assuming you eat pretty much nothing else).
You completely forgot any fruit or vegetables in that list. Yes, pasta and spam will sustain life, but it's shit nutrition. You might want to add a bottle of vitamin C tablets to that list, too, otherwise scurvy might be an issue and, oh yeah, it might be a good idea to have all those "extras" in your diet to keep your immune system healthy.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-03-21 04:17am

Trudeau is turning refugees/asylum seekers back at the US/Canada border. While it is unlikely to receive much pushback under the circumstances, it has been pointed out that this is likely a violation of international law, and possibly the Canadian Constitution:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6710312/coro ... ional-law/
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s decision to close the border to asylum seekers who enter the country irregularly amid the worsening global COVID-19 outbreak is a violation of international law, experts say.

“Deeply disappointed by Justin Trudeau’s decision to shut down the Canada-US border to refugees, in contravention of international refugee law and arguably Canadian constitutional law,” wrote immigration law professor Sean Rehaag on Twitter just hours after Friday’s announcement.

Rehaag, who leads York University’s Centre for Refugee Studies, also said the government’s decision puts Canadians’ health at risk because closing controlled border crossings for irregular migrants, such as Roxham Road in southern Quebec, will likely increase the chances that asylum seekers will find other ways to enter Canada.

Deeply disappointed by @JustinTrudeau's decision to shut down the Canada-US border to refugees, in contravention of international refugee law and arguably Canadian constitutional law. /1

— SeanRehaag (@SeanRehaag) March 20, 2020

“Refugee claimants go through medical checks and self-isolation (at places like Roxham Road).” Reghaag wrote. “Closing down such routes pushes asylum seekers to cross surreptitiously, with no screening.”

On Friday, Trudeau announced that irregular migrants crossing on foot from the U.S. will be turned away when they reach Canada as part of a wider border shutdown due to the new coronavirus pandemic.

Trudeau said that the move was part of a reciprocal agreement with the U.S. and that would-be refugees will be turned back “anywhere at the Canada-U.S. border.”

The decision comes amid security concerns around screening people at irregular border crossings for COVID-19 and hours before the closure of the Canada-U.S. border to all but essential travel, which goes into effect at midnight.

“Those who’ve already crossed the border will be put in isolation,” Trudeau said. “But in the future, those trying to cross the border irregularly will be released back into the U.S.”

Trudeau added that the new measures are “temporary” but nonetheless necessary as the world battles the spread of COVID-19, which had sickened nearly 250,000 people worldwide as of Thursday, including at least 846 Canadians.

Decision could create ‘more risk’
It’s unclear exactly how the government plans to patrol the more than 9,000-kilometre border between Canada and the U.S.

Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness Minister Bill Blair said Friday there’s “no evidence” that suggests asylum seekers are a higher health risk than others wanting to enter Canada, and that all non-essential travellers “posed a risk.”

“We would simply direct them back to curtail that irregular migration — which was very difficult, quite frankly, to monitor — to ensure the safety of Canadians,” Blair said.

A spokesperson for Blair’s office later said the decision to close the border to irregular migrants was made based on decisions by the International Organization for Migration and the United Nations Refugee Agency (UNHCR) who are “concerned that international travel could increase the exposure of refugees to the virus.”

But in remarks made Friday, Rema Jamous, head of the UNHCR in Canada, said that while all states must manage their borders in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic, they must also “carefully balance these measures to not close avenues to asylum or return people to situations of danger.”

Jamous also said the UNHCR is working to make sure it fully understands the government’s decision and that she knows the situation is in flux.

Still, there are those who support the government’s decision completely.

Conservative immigration critic Peter Kent said in a statement that it was the “right thing to do.”

“[I’m] pleased the government has heard CPC calls for stronger measures at the border,” Kent said.

Others, such as Craig Damian Smith, an expert in the forced migration of refugees, believe harsher border controls meant to stop the flow of asylum seekers are often counterproductive, leading to higher rates of smuggling and human trafficking across international boundaries.

“Professionalized smugglers will most likely step in to meet demand,” he said. “Particularly if the people who want to leave (the U.S.) are undocumented.”

Smith acknowledges that during a time of global pandemic — when Canada’s health care system is already struggling to keep up — there are likely “no good options” for the government when it comes to securing the border, adding that the potential cost of isolating irregular migrants for two-weeks and paying for their medical care if they are sick “could become overwhelming.”

Still, he thinks the government has an obligation to protect asylum seekers, even during a pandemic.

He says not doing so could create “more risk” for Canadians if irregular migrants who succeed at entering the country despite the ban go underground, rather than presenting themselves to authorities.
Its also worth noting that asylum seekers wouldn't have to enter Canada secretively and illegally, risking breaches of quarantine, if the government did not have a policy of treating the US as a "safe third country" and sending them back when they come lawfully.

When you think about the treatment these people could face in the US, the ICE camps, where they crowd large numbers of people into cages together, where people were already dying from lack of food, hygene, and medical care and general inhumane treatment, and where I fully expect to see hundreds if not thousands of coronavirus deaths*, this is pretty fucking disgusting.

People are going to look back on Canada's actions here the exact same way we look today at politicians who sent boatloads of Jews back to Germany in the 30s. I honestly don't think I could vote for Trudeau in good conscience after this, not even to keep the Conservatives out.



*Remember, a lot of those who died in the Holocaust weren't gassed or shot- they died of overwork, malnutrition, or, yes, disease (including Anne Frank). We still count those deaths as part of a genocide, because the German government deliberately created those conditions. Likewise, the Ukrainian famine deaths under Stalin.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by mr friendly guy » 2020-03-21 04:21am

https://abc7ny.com/6033992/
Coronavirus New York: health officials provide limits on testing patients for COVID-19

Saturday, March 21, 2020 12:21PM
NEW YORK -- New York City health officials have directed medical providers to stop testing patients for the coronavirus, except for those sick enough to require hospitalization, saying wider testing is exhausting supplies of protective equipment.

In an advisory issued Friday, the health department said outpatient testing should stop unless results would impact a patient's treatment.

RELATED: Nurses forced to ration supplies amid COVID-19 outbreak

It said demand for unnecessary testing is contributing to a national shortage of masks, gowns, collection swabs and other supplies, all of which need to be discarded by health care workers after each test.

"We have been clear that testing is best indicated for people who are symptomatic, have chronic underlying illnesses, and are not getting better," said New York City's health commissioner, Dr. Oxiris Barbot.

She also urged the public not to seek treatment just because they are sick, noting that the disease is mild for most and resolves within a few weeks.

"Only go to the doctor if you are getting worse," she said, noting that every trip to a medical clinic by a sick person potentially exposes others to the disease.

The order came amid a huge surge in testing in New York. After a slow start, testing sites have proliferated, and many officials have said that widespread testing is a key to fighting the spread of the disease.

As of Friday morning, more than 32,000 people had been tested in the state, almost a third of them in the last day, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said.

More than 7,000 New Yorkers have tested positive. More than 1,200 have been hospitalized.

Similar restrictions on testing have been implemented in other parts of the state.

Albany Medical Center and St. Peter's Health Partners said they were also suspending community testing to conserve resources.

"The difficult decision was made in order to conserve testing resources for those at highest risk, including inpatients, symptomatic direct care workers and those with high-risk exposure to the virus," according to a release.
So NY is joining Australia, Sweden and Denmark in limiting testing because of lack of resources. This runs counter to the WHO ideal situation of "test, test and test."
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by Zaune » 2020-03-21 06:48am

Broomstick wrote:
2020-03-21 04:07am
You completely forgot any fruit or vegetables in that list. Yes, pasta and spam will sustain life, but it's shit nutrition. You might want to add a bottle of vitamin C tablets to that list, too, otherwise scurvy might be an issue and, oh yeah, it might be a good idea to have all those "extras" in your diet to keep your immune system healthy.
You could skip the tablets just by buying plenty of ready-made spaghetti sauce to go with all that pasta. Keeps pretty well as long as you store it out of direct sunlight and only needs to be heated up.

Come to think of it, if you have the necessary kitchen space you could get one over the panic buyers by stocking up on fresh fruit and vegetables and the necessary supplies to pickle them.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by chimericoncogene » 2020-03-21 06:52am

Broomstick wrote:
2020-03-21 04:07am
chimericoncogene wrote:
2020-03-20 11:30pm
The most important things to stock up on should be, IMO, straight carbohydrates, essential ingredients, (salt, oil, sauces, tea, vinegar etc.), and then maybe "delicacies" (spam, baked beans, tuna, tinned sausages, etc) to add flavor if the government ends up distributing rations. Electricity, gas and water aren't going to go anytime soon (buy a kettle). Napkin-work suggests 500g of pasta should last a man one day, and ten kilos of pasta should be more than adequate to last a family of four a week (assuming you eat pretty much nothing else).
You completely forgot any fruit or vegetables in that list. Yes, pasta and spam will sustain life, but it's shit nutrition. You might want to add a bottle of vitamin C tablets to that list, too, otherwise scurvy might be an issue and, oh yeah, it might be a good idea to have all those "extras" in your diet to keep your immune system healthy.
Agreed. Thanks for the reminder on Vitamin C - will definitely stock up on at least that. Scurvy sets in in four weeks; other vitamin deficiencies typically take substantially longer - months to years, IIRC. Lime juice is traditional, but a big jar of Vitamin C pills should survive for over a few years.

I didn't really consider balanced nutrition or health in stockpiling because the goals of my stockpiling were primarily hunger/starvation avoidance and buffering an intermittent or disrupted food supply (e.g. prolonged rioting or disrupted transportation networks). For these applications, plain pasta will suffice to fill bellies until the situation resolves.

If the supermarkets don't have any food for longer than a month, and the government rations don't include vitamins, I think we will be facing a different set of problems.
Last edited by chimericoncogene on 2020-03-21 06:54am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-03-21 06:53am

Zaune wrote:
2020-03-21 06:48am
Broomstick wrote:
2020-03-21 04:07am
You completely forgot any fruit or vegetables in that list. Yes, pasta and spam will sustain life, but it's shit nutrition. You might want to add a bottle of vitamin C tablets to that list, too, otherwise scurvy might be an issue and, oh yeah, it might be a good idea to have all those "extras" in your diet to keep your immune system healthy.
You could skip the tablets just by buying plenty of ready-made spaghetti sauce to go with all that pasta. Keeps pretty well as long as you store it out of direct sunlight and only needs to be heated up.

Come to think of it, if you have the necessary kitchen space you could get one over the panic buyers by stocking up on fresh fruit and vegetables and the necessary supplies to pickle them.
Tomato sauce is a pretty good source of vegetables and vitamins which won't expire, yeah.

I'm a big orange juice drinker as well, and it'll stay good for a while if refrigerated. Longer than fresh fruit anyway. I also find its a pretty effective preventative/cure for colds and sore throats.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2020-03-21 07:34am

More than half a million Canadians applied for employment insurance this week, as opposed to under 27,000 in the same time period last year.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6707529/coro ... insurance/

For reference, that's for a country of just over 37 and a half million.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.

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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by FaxModem1 » 2020-03-21 07:54am

As private security, I'm considered an 'essential function job'. No paid leave, no working from home, just being here everyday and seeing memos about how if you get sick, a doctor's note is the only way to make sure that you can come back to your job.
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Re: The Walls Come Down: No Travel Betwen US and Europe for 30 Days

Post by loomer » 2020-03-21 08:24am

Broomstick wrote:
2020-03-21 04:03am
loomer wrote:
2020-03-20 11:14pm
As First Nations and Indigenous communities here and in Canada shut their borders, the US is neglecting to send even basic supplies to Native American health facilities.
To be fair, they aren't sending those things to the mainstream dominant culture, either. Doctors and nurses come to my store every day asking about masks, gloves, alcohol, wipes, etc. because they can't get them anywhere else. At least in this country it's not a matter of neglecting the Natives, the Federal government is leaving everyone hanging in the wind.

Which doesn't make it OK, quite the contrary - I'm convinced the death toll in the US will be in the millions because of the greed and denial of oligarchs.
The US government has a special duty of care towards domestic subaltern tribal nations. They should be first in line, not last.
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