Michael Brown Case

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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by madd0ct0r »

tumblr is going nuts over this. It's like SJW girl and 4chan troll have united into Against the Man Man!

flier from protest reads:
Flier being distributed at the protest in Ferguson. Text reads as follows:

Ad Hoc Committee for Justice on Behalf of Michael Brown

OUR DEMANDS:

The officer involved in the shooting death of Michael Brown be IMMEDIATELY identified.
The same officer should be immediately fired and charged with murder.
The Ferguson Police Department “Protocol Handbook” be distributed throughout the Ferguson community.
The racial composition of the Ferguson Police Department should reflect the racial demographics of the community.
Upcoming Action Items:

Keep calling the Ferguson Police Department demanding justice for Michael Brown at 314-522-3100
On Tuesday August 12th join us in front of St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch’s office located at 100 South Central Avenue, Clayton Missouri 63105
Supporting organizations:
Tasheed Youth Organization, Organization for Black Struggle (OBS), New Black Panther Party (NBPP), Moorish Science Temple, Coalition Against Police Crimes & Repression, Nation of Islam - Mosque 28, Universal African Peoples Organization (UAPO) and more to follow!
and anon have started doxxing the police chief. allegedly he has a confederate flag up in his house :)
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Block »

Um if I open the door too lightly it comes back at me. If it even touched the kids it was coming back at him, no slamming needed.
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Borgholio »

allegedly he has a confederate flag up in his house
Lovely...
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Grumman »

Simon_Jester wrote:The riots tend to suggest that the actual community Brown lived in finds Johnson's version of events a lot more believable than the policeman's version.

So one really has to ask oneself: what the hell has been going on with policing in that community such that they would find it likely that the police would do such a horrible, senseless, murderous thing as Dorian Johnson says they did?
Do you ask yourself this question every time a bunch of soccer fans do shit like this? Whenever people start looting stores and setting fire to cars it's not about having a reason, it's about having an excuse.
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Borgholio »

Do you ask yourself this question every time a bunch of soccer fans do shit like this? Whenever people start looting stores and setting fire to cars it's not about having a reason, it's about having an excuse.
Speaking as someone who was in close proximity to the Rodney King riots of the 90's, I saw both kinds of protestors. Those who rioted and protested because they felt that justice had not been served (which was true, the acquittal of the officers was bullshit), and those who rioted because they wanted to smash stuff. As but one example, no matter how unfair the verdict was or how oppressed the community feels...there was no excuse whatsoever for hauling Reginald Denny out of his truck and hitting him in the head with a fucking brick. The same thing goes for these riots. I agree with Simon that we need to see if this latest incident is one part of a larger pattern, but even if true...it still doesn't justify the mob violence. Especially when you consider that the investigation hasn't even finished yet and the officer might still be charged with a crime when all is said and done. They have no excuse to riot at this point, they're just being assholes.
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Patroklos »

Would they have an excuse if the investigation finds him guilty with forensics proof to spare? Would that matter to anyone doing the rioting now? I think not, in both cases. Especially since just like in the case of the LA riots they are victimizing their own neighbors. That's all the evidence you need to about the justification of these guys. If the vicitimzation of their neighborhood is there cause they wouldn't champion it by victimizing it more. Riots are unjustified regardless, but if they were burning police cars and government buildings at least greed could be ruled out for motive.
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Borgholio »

I think we tend to agree about the justification these guys have. Protests are fine, vigils are fine, but riots are only acceptable in a handful of very extreme circumstances...and this is not one of them.
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Welf »

Patroklos wrote:Would they have an excuse if the investigation finds him guilty with forensics proof to spare? Would that matter to anyone doing the rioting now? I think not, in both cases. Especially since just like in the case of the LA riots they are victimizing their own neighbors. That's all the evidence you need to about the justification of these guys. If the vicitimzation of their neighborhood is there cause they wouldn't champion it by victimizing it more. Riots are unjustified regardless, but if they were burning police cars and government buildings at least greed could be ruled out for motive.
It tells you that these people are angry an have no way of expressing themselves. This is raw undirected anger and frustration. To direct that into something useful it needs someone organizing it. Any group that could manage to let "those people" vent their frustrations at government buildings would instantly smashed as terrorist organisation.
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Channel72 »

Patroklos wrote:Nothing says he was shot from 35 feet away, just that he was 35 feet away from the car. Johnson specifically says Brown was chased down. If the officer tried to apprehend him again and another close quarters struggle takes place, this time with a drawn gun and shots already fired, it leads to an interesting situation.
Are you and I reading the same article ??
OP wrote:A shot was fired inside the police car, and Brown was eventually shot about 35 feet away from the vehicle, Belmar said.
So both the police and Johnson agree that Brown was shot 35 feet away (or at least at some distance from the car). This is one of the few facts that is not in dispute.
Last edited by Channel72 on 2014-08-13 07:10pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Patroklos »

Yes, shot 35 feet away from the police car, not shot FROM 35 feet away. Or to be more specific, nothing says there was 35 feet between Brown and the officer which would make shooting a guy running away or surrendering that much more likely or egregious.
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Channel72 »

So, you're saying that perhaps the officer pursued him for 35 feet, then tackled him or something and shot him close up ?
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Channel72 wrote:
Patroklos wrote:Nothing says he was shot from 35 feet away, just that he was 35 feet away from the car. Johnson specifically says Brown was chased down. If the officer tried to apprehend him again and another close quarters struggle takes place, this time with a drawn gun and shots already fired, it leads to an interesting situation.
Are you and I reading the same article ??
OP wrote:A shot was fired inside the police car, and Brown was eventually shot about 35 feet away from the vehicle, Belmar said.
So both the police and Johnson agree that Brown was shot 35 feet away (or at least at some distance from the car). This is one of the few facts that is not in dispute.
Yes, the victim was 35 feet from the car, but it doesn't say where the shooter was in relation to that. The cop could have been anywhere on a line from the car to right next to the victim.
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Channel72 »

Well, hopefully this is something that ballistics can easily resolve.
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Patroklos »

Channel72 wrote:So, you're saying that perhaps the officer pursued him for 35 feet, then tackled him or something and shot him close up ?
Yes. And if the officer actually believed he had been assaulted with an attempt made to get his gun that resulted in a discharge I would hope that's what he would do as that's obviously a dangerous person that needs to be taken off the street. And if a further physical confrontation did happen the above would need to be taken into account regarding how much leeway the officer would give before shooting again. If it were me not much.

I have no reason to think this or any other story is correct, I'm just thinking through the options.
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Mr. Coffee »

I don't buy either side of the story. I lived there for over a decade (well, right next door to Ferg in Dellwood, but same diff). The place 15 years ago was a borderline ghetto, and every time I go through St. Louis or talk to friends still there, everything on Chambers from Riverview clear to Lambert is a fucking shitbox (To be fair, Berkeley, Mo was ALWAYS a shithole, but the closer you went from StL County to the airport things got shittier until you hit chain link fence). Also, when I lived there Ferguson cops we dicks, Dellwood PD were straight goddamn murderers (seriously, they killed one of my neighbors, who mysteriously hanged himself in a cell AFTER beating himself unconscious). Honestly, I'm just surprised this didn't happen sooner.

Also, I fuking glad I don't live in that goddamn place anymore. I grew up there, fuck that place.
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Channel72 »

Patroklos wrote:
Channel72 wrote:So, you're saying that perhaps the officer pursued him for 35 feet, then tackled him or something and shot him close up ?
Yes. And if the officer actually believed he had been assaulted with an attempt made to get his gun that resulted in a discharge I would hope that's what he would do as that's obviously a dangerous person that needs to be taken off the street. And if a further physical confrontation did happen the above would need to be taken into account regarding how much leeway the officer would give before shooting again. If it were me not much.

I have no reason to think this or any other story is correct, I'm just thinking through the options.
I didn't really consider that possibility, because multiple witnesses report hearing multiple (like more than 3) gunshots, which doesn't suggest the idea of the gun going off during a close-up struggle (at least, after Brown got away from the car). But... yeah, you're right, it's possible, I suppose.

Anyway, if this officer is actually innocent... I really feel sorry for him. The whole town Internet wants his blood.
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

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... is that the police department in the camo looking gear?
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

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It's hard to tell, isn't it?
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Agent Fisher »

Yeah, that'd be the swat team of the city and county levels, along with probably the neighboring cities for a mutual support deal. I'm guessing they don't have a dedicated riot team, so swat team is best they can do. I'd have left the long guns behind and just gone with straight sticks and shields.
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

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Al-Jazeera gets the gas-

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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Lost Soal »

Heard on twitter they arrested a State Senator as well, but haven't looked at actual reports yet.
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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

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Would you like to know more?

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Re: Surprised nobody is talking about the riots in St Louis.

Post by Siege »

If you want a 101 on how to stupidly escalate a situation, police in St. Louis have got you covered:
The Guardian wrote:At 8.40pm, at the other end of West Florissant, two bottles smashing prompted a furious reaction from the police line. Protesters were warned over a Tannoy to leave the area immediately or be arrested. "Your peaceful protest is no longer peaceful," the police voice said.

When the protesters refused to retreat, a high-pitched siren blared from a police Swat truck and several canisters of teargas were fired towards the crowd in quick succession. "Return to your vehicles, return to your homes," the police Tannoy said. Yet protesters regrouped, linked arms and continued to chant at the police, some screaming obscenities.

At 9.08pm, a barrage of gas canisters and flashbangs were shot at the crowds, prompting chaos. Many protesters ran south down Lang Drive. But, even as they fled, the police line continued to fire gas canisters and crackers in their direction. No one could be seen throwing anything at the officers.

Some canisters landed and emitted plumes of smoke in the front gardens of residents as they sat inside their homes. Others hit cars and trucks as people tried to escape.
Oh no, they threw glass bottles at officers kitted out in body armor, sniper rifles and armored trucks! Clearly this warrants a massive escalation of force! Also let's arrest or shoot at journalists covering the protests because clearly that's something that will make everything better for us. What the fuck are these people thinking? Do they perchance think the way the authorities handled the protests at Tahrir and Maidan were a sterling example to be imitated?
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