Starfleet's Torchwood

[Baffalo]

I was watching Dr. Who and had a theory. Most of the ships in Star Trek can detect wormholes, and most seem to exit warp prior to entering them (At least, the bits I've seen. If I'm missing an episode, forgive me). Suppose there's a reason for that... something about FTL drives, which already twists and warps space and time to make you travel faster than light has an adverse reaction to wormholes. So much so that it might leave, say, a Star Destroyer that blunders into one without warning, lifeless. And that Star Destroyer happens to be found by a Starfleet vessel.

The reason I mentioned Torchwood in the title is because in Dr. Who, the Torchwood Institute was put together to study alien artifacts that fall to Earth. Would Starfleet put together a similar institution, as they did when the Borg threat was realized, to study the technology of a relatively intact Star Destroyer? How would this knowledge be used, and how would it affect Starfleet? In essence, the question is, if Starfleet had access to that level of technology, and weren't under immediate threat from the Empire, how would this affect the Star Trek Universe?

[DieselJester]

Assuming that they'd somehow pull off the miracle of capturing an ISD (I refer to the Main Site and the Battle Scenarios)...

I'd imagine that they'd tow it to Utopia Planitia and hand it over to SCE to start researching it. Of course good luck in hiding it from the Imperials who'd want to recapture and/or destroy it to prevent the Federation from using it.

[Batman]

As for the capturing aspect, the ISD in question is rendered lifeless as per the OP, remember? Whether that means sans its crew or merely dead in space for the time being, it's entirely possible Starfleet could capture it intact.
You're presupposing the Empire a)knows where it's gone and b)has the means to get there, when all we know from the OP is that the ISD 'Why Do ROBs Hate Me' ran into a wormhole and vanished to reemerge somewhere the Feds can get their hands on her. Far as I can tell, this is-so far-NOT a vs where both sides know about and have access (however limited) to each other, this is a what if, in this case what if the Feds got their hands on a Star Destroyer.

[Baffalo]

As for the capturing aspect, the ISD in question is rendered lifeless as per the OP, remember? Whether that means sans its crew or merely dead in space for the time being, it's entirely possible Starfleet could capture it intact.
You're presupposing the Empire a)knows where it's gone and b)has the means to get there, when all we know from the OP is that the ISD 'Why Do ROBs Hate Me' ran into a wormhole and vanished to reemerge somewhere the Feds can get their hands on her. Far as I can tell, this is-so far-NOT a vs where both sides know about and have access (however limited) to each other, this is a what if, in this case what if the Feds got their hands on a Star Destroyer.

Essentially correct. The idea put forward is merely, should Starfleet get their hands on an ISD, what would be the results?

To better clarify, here's a better explanation of the course of events. The ISD is taking a non-standard route, perhaps summoned to join a larger battlefleet, when it stumbles into a wormhole just beginning to form. The ISD's hyperdrive causes the wormhole to alter its shape and form, and send it across time and space to the Alpha Quadrant. The fluctuations in time and space kill the entire crew in an instant, leaving the ship lifeless and adrift in Federation space. A Starfleet vessel happens upon it, and it is reported to Starfleet Command. The wormhole, damaged by the hyperdrive, fades away for the time being, so there's no chance of it being discovered for some time.

[FaxModem1]

Images of a seriously understaffed Starfleet crew of sexy incompetents who hump each other all day come to mind.

Seriously though, I can imagine it being taken somewhere secret by Starfleet for study, and not wanting to have the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians or maybe even the Dominion getting word of it. They would probably handle it with the same security the Prometheus was given, or hopefully better security, as that ship was taken over by Romulans.

[bilateralrope]

Could Starfleet tow it anywhere before they figure out how to activate the hyperdrive ?

[Batman]

They tow ships under Warp all the time and a Star Destroyer isn't that big even by Trek AQ standards. They may have to team up several big ships to play tug but I don't see why they shouldn't be able to do it.

[Baffalo]

Could Starfleet tow it anywhere before they figure out how to activate the hyperdrive ?

I'm not sure how the hyperdrive computers work... do they continuously update it with all known gravitational objects in the galaxy? Or does it automatically calculate on its own? If it's the former, then the hyperdrive is useless until it's sufficiently programmed with its new region. If it's the latter, then it would, in theory, be possible to calculate the jump, but I highly doubt the universal translator would be able to decipher enough about it before it would just be easier to tow it back to a facility.

[Batman]

Um-since it's going to be a good long while until they manage to figure out how to control any system on the Star Destroyer, leave alone the hyperdrive, yeah, I think towing it is the way to go.

[DieselJester]

Tow it to a secure area and get their best engineers from SCE to start going over it. Yeah, I can see that happening. I'd imagine that Scotty and LaForge both would get a hard-on just being in the engine room of an ISD.

[Batman]

Assuming they can find Scotty (and both he and Geordi are still alive, the OP doesn't exactly give a timeframe). Also, presupposes they both know how much of a technology boost that will be to Trek when all they'd actually know would likely be 'Okay, I have no clue what this is'.

[Baffalo]

Assuming they can find Scotty (and both he and Geordi are still alive, the OP doesn't exactly give a timeframe). Also, presupposes they both know how much of a technology boost that will be to Trek when all they'd actually know would likely be 'Okay, I have no clue what this is'.

Just for the sake of argument, yeah we'll say they both can have a look. Most Wars vs Trek arguments take place post DS9.

I imagine the first thing they'd do is try and get the universal translator working on things. After all, last thing you want to do on a ship like an ISD is start poking random buttons just to see what happens.

"Uh... I think this button says fire."
"Why do you say that?"
"Because I think I just shot away half the dock."

[Batman]

The universal translator seems to be not all that universal, really. 'Darmok' comes to mind, and while I consider myself reasonably fluent in english, I seriously doubt my ability to operate a US Navy ship's systems. Being able to read the labels doesn't mean you know what the fuck those buttons actually result in happening.

[Stark]

Heaps of the ships systems (particularly the redunant ones, like guns) will be dissambled and examined anyway. It's not like the only ways they have to work anything out is 'read the label' or 'press shit at random'.

[Batman]

Because reverse engineering the hardware is naturally gong to be so much easier than figuring out the controls.

[Stark]

Quote me saying that, or shut the fuck up.

The point is even talking about HO HO THEY'LL PUSH A BUTTON AND EXPLODE SHIT is dumb, because they're unlikely to touch anything until they think they know what it'll do. This might be as simple as tracing power lines and analysing the ship's structure, but will probably involve wholesale disassembly of systems and examination of their likely method of operation.

This emphatically does not require understanding the fundamental principles of operation, so just skip your next post thanks. As much as I enjoy 'Star Trek Can't Understand Star Wars' thread number 12,812, it's more interesting to talk about what might reasonably happen, and not what preconceptions people have.

[Imperial528]

Because reverse engineering the hardware is naturally gong to be so much easier than figuring out the controls.

Actually, it very well could be, to a point.

I'm not talking "pop open cover, learn to build turbolaser" amounts of ease. However, when it comes to reverse engineering, eventually you will break the thing down low enough for you to understand it, and from there you can build up the ladder of knowledge. At some point in tearing apart components, they will reach a point where someone either goes "Hey, I think this is X" or say "Whoa, guys, this X does Y thing, as described by Z theory!"

For example, say you give a roman engineer a two-stroke engine to play with. First he'll probably notice it's really hard to spin the shaft, thus it is connected to a mechanism, and that it is clearly designed for some sort of liquid to be put in it. Eventually, he might figure out how to break it apart and viola, he'll see the piston. He'll have no idea what it is for, but he'll be able to figure out the crank (I'm pretty sure Romans had cranks that could convert linear and rotational motion as it is, anyhow) and from there realize that somehow the thing either takes in torque and outputs liquid, or inputs liquid and outputs torque.

Likewise, a Starfleet engineer cracking open a piece of Imperial technology will eventually break it down into electrical circuits and mechanical parts. This things are described by laws of physics known to him or her, and thus their function can, eventually, be realized and the workings of the device found out. Of course this can take anywhere from years to decades even for a simple thing, depending on just how different it is from Starfleet technology and science.

With figuring out a language without any reference point what-so-ever you need a lot of unknown data to even get a simple translation down. For more complex meanings you need to know even more such as culture, hell, for all they know, the Galactic Basic word for "reactor" is the same as for "laundry basket" or "battery pack". And this information is unlikely to be on a military starship in the first place.

As another example, give me a cutting-edge piece of machinery based on whole new science that was made in say Russia, or China. Eventually I could probably figure out what some of it does. But there's no way in hell I could learn Russian or Chinese from it.

[Baffalo]

As another example, give me a cutting-edge piece of machinery based on whole new science that was made in say Russia, or China. Eventually I could probably figure out what some of it does. But there's no way in hell I could learn Russian or Chinese from it.

Right, but we're not talking about just machinery here. We're talking about a fully functional starship, one with entertainment provisions and other things aboard, no doubt with an entire library. Sure, it's not going to contain children's literature, but it will contain probably quite a bit of information, culturally speaking. If you were to round up all the entertainment aboard a modern naval vessel, you'd have books, movies, emails, etc. All that adds up.

And there's also the matter of associating certain words with locations and items. If you walked into a room marked Waffenkammer aboard an unknown vessel, and it was stocked with small arms and weapons, you would probably assume it has to do with weapons in some form or function. Granted, it would take quite a bit more to fully piece together the language, but it's a frame of reference. Add up enough pieces, and you can build and reconstruct a language.

[Imperial528]

Oh, of course, they're not starting from scratch. But I'd wager you wouldn't get too much out of it than very simple things like "this symbol can mean X, this collection of symbols, Y" etc. Though an ISD is a big ship, and there hasn't been much in the way of expanding on crew activity resources that I know of, so maybe there would be a galactic encyclopedia sitting around on a computer somewhere, complete with a copy of "Basic for Dummies".

Now, given that this is Starfleet we are talking about, they'll probably devote entire divisions of research institutions to figuring out everything from the language and technology to how they got drunk after a long day.

[Lord Revan]

Realistically the hardest part for the Starfleet engineers to figure out would be the hypermatter reactor, partly due to it's alien design, but once it's identified as a reactor I suspect that the SF engineers would be extra careful at studying or disasembling it as they have experience reactors going critical and taking out the whole ship in the process.

[Imperial528]

Well frankly, everything on the ship will have an alien design, except for things meant to be held by humans or otherwise used by humans/humanoids.

The biggest challenge won't be figuring out, on the large scale, what is what, but rather, how does this do that, and why does this work, and why is it different than our solution to the same problem, what are the ups and downs, etc.

[Stark]

Some of that isn't hugely necessary short-term, though. If you have a black box that takes electricity in one end and produces perfect iron spheres out the other end, you can use it fine without plumbing the depths of the alien technology within. That it will stop working when the blue triangle reads 'FART' is something that they'll find out with experience... kind of like science. :V

And seriously, most of what we see of imperial technology (the end-user parts) don't have alien design at all. Their interface concepts are obvious, their spatial layouts so simple nerds worked them out in 1987, and things that look like huge industrial power conduits are in fact huge industrial power conduits. Who knows what will be obvious to the 'we detect a tiny crack in that complex object on the other side of the house facing the other way' brigade in Starfleet. Even better, the ship will have heaps of equipment that is portable by design and similar in principle, operation or role to the ship systems that they can literally fly somewhere else to fuck around with. There's heaps of scope for experimentation, even assuming 'transport it over there and replicate 100 of them while analysing the structure of the device' doesn't help them.

Its not like they need to understand the fundamentals of super-science in a week (or whatever the old vs bullshit was) to decipher a few control panels and get individual artefacts working.

You know.

Like... Torchwood did. :V

[Baffalo]

I'm very much in agreement with Stark on this, and for the simple reason that, if you look at how we handle technology today, it works on much the same principle. There are three levels of specialization to all pieces of technology: The Specialist, the Technician, and the User.

The Specialist is the scientist, the engineer, the theorist, the person who knows the ins and outs of the technology in all its forms. He knows how it works, why it works, the whole nine yards, and designs how it will be built.

The Technician is the person who puts it together, builds it from plans, and overall has one job: make it work. He doesn't have to know how each piece works, just as long as it functions, he's happy. He's the repairman when something breaks.

The User is the person who presses the button to make it work. When you turn your air conditioner on, you're the user. You may understand the basics of how it might work, watch the repairman work, but if your unit breaks, you're out of luck. Or you're the guy on the bridge, pressing the button to fire, hoping it works.

[Darth_Jim]

Starfleet engineers will be able to figure it out eventually, but it could take a while.

But what if LaForge brings along his android friend Data to help out. If there are still astromech droids on the Star Destroyer he will be able to interface with them. The computer languages they speak will be different but it won't take long for Data to figure out the language. Or even if there are no droids on the Star Destroyer, Data will be able to interface with the ships computer. Once he's cracked the different language barrier, he will be able to program the tricorders that technicians carry around with them as well as Starfleets computers to correctly interface with Imperial technology.

That will really make it easier for the technicians with their research.

[jwl]

One thing that might be troublesome it getting the technology to run on their own fuel types. Because to run a hypermatter annihilator or a hyperdrive you generally need hypermatter, which they won't have, beyond the stuff still in the fuel tanks.