How the federation could beat the empire

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Simonoz
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How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Simonoz »

As most of us will know, the federation is based on Earth. Earth has a man who can time travel, and who lives for a few thousand years protecting it. This person also has two hearts. I figure, if the empire is attacking the earth based federation, then the docotr will most likely come to somehow defend the earth from the imperial fleet. The federation could be crushed, but i would be willing to bet that the doctor would find a way of scaring off/blowing up the imperial fleet, because he has done the same with more potent adversaries, such as the daleks, a race bred for war. Because of the doctor, the majority of the federation would most likely fall, but earth would be uninvadable. Of course, if the empire managed to team up with the cybermen or the daleks (the daleks did team up with others in one of the older episodes), the doctor would be presented woth a bogger challenge, but pn the whole, i doubt the empire could take out the doctor.

Discuss.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Seriously dude?

The Federation would be saved by the Doctor? Who is from a completely different universe and has never turned up at any of the most horrible crises of Federation history?

Besides, IIRC we've seen the 24th century in the Doctor's universe. No Federation. You fail at interesting topics as well as spelling, grammar and punctuation.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Dare Devil »

The best the Federation could hope for would be to be tolerated by the Empire for whatever reason. And even that would be unlikely.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Also, even if the Doctor turns up to save Earth, the rest of the Federation still gets conquered, which means the Federation still looses. If I managed to invade the entire USA but couldn't take Washington D.C. for some reason, would you say the USA has beaten me?
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Soontir C'boath »

The Doctor usually wins by sleight of hand and turning electronic systems inside out to suit his needs. We have seen Cybermen ships in the new series blow up for no discerned reason. It was probably some kind of hacked program he inserted so perhaps he can introduce a disabling program into Imperial computers and communication systems to spread it.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Simonoz »

Sorry about the spelling and punctuation - i'm posting from my ipad, so capitalisation (correct spelling, i'm Australian) and apostrophes are going to be rare.

Let's say that the doctor slipped into a the star wars/star trek universe like in the rise of the cybermen.

I think that if it came to earth being unsustainable without the rest of the federation, then the doctor would most likely recapture that, and probably (directly or indirectly) take put enough of the imperial fleet that they would retreat. Of course, this doesnt save the trekkies for any subsequent attacks, and knowing imperial persistence, they are most likely coming back.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Even then, it is hardly "how the Federation could beat the Empire" as your thread title implies. Again, saving Earth does not equal the Federation beating the Empire, you wouldn't say the US had won if I conquered everything but Washington DC.

More to the point, we've seen the Doctor in an alternate universe (Inferno) and his main concern was getting back to save his own world. To him, this is an entirely new universe with a different Web of Time. For all we know in the "Imperial Invasion" timeline the Federation being conquered is a fixed point in time and he cannot interfere.

Additionally, you seem to have a phenomenally over-estimated view of the Doctor's ability and willingness to help. He can pull the stuff he does because he is familiar with the enemies he faces, how they technology works and so on. He has no idea what the Empire is or how there stuff works.
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Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Simonoz »

Fair enough. Perhaps I should have chosen a better name. However, i have to disagree with your claim that the doctor does most of what he does because of prior knowledge of races and tech. I agree that much of his ability comes from that, but he also appears capable of figuring out new tech, and a lot of his ability also comes from psychological manipulation. As to whether or not he would want to help, I think that that would depend on his form and other circumstances. Basically, the doctor is a way that the federation COULD defeat the empire. He is not reliable, but it is a minor possibility.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

The Federation has precisely zero control over the Doctor. They have precisely zero knowledge of him. They have precisely zero ways to contact him.

The Federation asking for his help is the same as asking Q for help. Or asking Jesus since they have nothing but (possibly) records of an old sci-fi show to go on.
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Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by biostem »

The Federation asking or relying on Doctor Who for help is, in essence, a concession that *they* couldn't beat the Empire...
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

biostem wrote:The Federation asking or relying on Doctor Who for help is, in essence, a concession that *they* couldn't beat the Empire...
Like I said, it's akin to asking Jesus for help.
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Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Batman »

Not to mention that this means we're no longer talking about 'Wars vs Trek', we're talking 'Wars vs Trek and elements of any other franchise I can think of that I believe will help Trek win'. You might just as well say Trek would win if they had the Justice League.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

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Batman wrote:Not to mention that this means we're no longer talking about 'Wars vs Trek', we're talking 'Wars vs Trek and elements of any other franchise I can think of that I believe will help Trek win'. You might just as well say Trek would win if they had the Justice League.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by lPeregrine »

You're overlooking one tiny problem in this theory: have we seen any evidence of Doctor Who still existing in Star Trek? No? Well, the conclusion is obvious: the Doctor is annoyed that they canceled his TV show and helps the Empire out of spite.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

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Ahahahahahah nice. The federation wouldnt have control of him. Nor does UNIT. Yet the doctor helps UNIT out.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Simonoz wrote:Ahahahahahah nice. The federation wouldnt have control of him. Nor does UNIT. Yet the doctor helps UNIT out.
UNIT also has ways of contacting the Doctor and staff the Doctor cares about (witness Martha Jones, the Brigadier, the Brig's daughter, and so on).

UNIT also has an advantage of being in the same universe as the Doctor. The Federation is not. Using your "logic" that the Doctor helps Earth against aggressors, I should be expecting him to turn up at Wolf 359, or during the Covenant War from Halo, or the Niezchean (sp?) rebellion from Andromeda, or the Bug Wars from Starship Troopers.....

And yet he only ever turns up to help his Earth.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

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Simonoz wrote:As most of us will know, the federation is based on Earth. Earth has a man who can time travel, and who lives for a few thousand years protecting it. This person also has two hearts. I figure, if the empire is attacking the earth based federation, then the docotr will most likely come to somehow defend the earth from the imperial fleet. The federation could be crushed, but i would be willing to bet that the doctor would find a way of scaring off/blowing up the imperial fleet, because he has done the same with more potent adversaries, such as the daleks, a race bred for war. Because of the doctor, the majority of the federation would most likely fall, but earth would be uninvadable. Of course, if the empire managed to team up with the cybermen or the daleks (the daleks did team up with others in one of the older episodes), the doctor would be presented woth a bogger challenge, but pn the whole, i doubt the empire could take out the doctor.

Discuss.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Simonoz »

Hahahaha nice one.
I have said that this is an unlikely occurence. The doctor isnt going to this particular universe deliberately. As i said, he is traveling in the same manner as in 'the rise of the cybermen'.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Batman »

Which particular part of 'different universe' didn't you understand? You'd have a more solid (for want of a better word) case arguing the Justice League would save the SGC's bacon in Stargate because I at least get repeatedly mentioned if only as a fictional character. There is absolutely no reference to the Doctor throughout all of televised and movie Star Trek.
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'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Simonoz »

Yeah, but is has the justice league ever passed into a different universe? The doctor has, yet, (correct me if i am wrong) the justice league doesnt encompass much farther than their own earth

As i have said already, the doctor accidentally falls into a parallel universe in "the age of steel". The scenario is that the doctor has done a similar thing, but instead fallen into the STvsSW universe.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

ANd like I said, he has no idea if this invasion is the proper course of history in this timeline. It may even be a fixed point and he cannot interfere.

And once again, this is just "The Federations wins because the Doctor saves us all!" wanking. You can substitute "The Doctor" for Jesus and it makes about as much sense.
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Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
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Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Batman wrote:Which particular part of 'different universe' didn't you understand? You'd have a more solid (for want of a better word) case arguing the Justice League would save the SGC's bacon in Stargate because I at least get repeatedly mentioned if only as a fictional character. There is absolutely no reference to the Doctor throughout all of televised and movie Star Trek.
However, the Doctor has encountered Star Trek in comics. I presume this isn't canon for Star Trek, but I'm not sure what the policy is for Doctor Who.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Batman »

Simonoz wrote:Yeah, but is has the justice league ever passed into a different universe? The doctor has, yet, (correct me if i am wrong) the justice league doesnt encompass much farther than their own earth[/qoute]
And Earth 2, Earth S, the antimatter universe...the New 52 isn't just called that because somebody liked the number.
As i have said already, the doctor accidentally falls into a parallel universe in "the age of steel". The scenario is that the doctor has done a similar thing, but instead fallen into the STvsSW universe.
...Where he is curiously enough never ever mentioned, on either side.
Not that the Doctor is necessarily all that useful anyway. As others pointed out, for all we know the Empire invasion is a fixed point in time and there's jack all the Doctor can do about it, and at least for nuWho he needs his companions to save the his bacon every third episode or so anyway.
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'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by jwl »

Well it's fairly obvious the doctor is in a different universe to star trek (unless you go by davis's statement which essentially canonises fanfiction). However, his thread, his rules.
The thing is though, the current in-character doctor doesn't give a toss about his own universe, never mind another one. As he said: "the universe doesn't care".
I don't think the old rules of time still apply now for the doctor, though; given waters of mars, the pandorica opens, and Angels in manhatten.
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Re: How the federation could beat the empire

Post by Batman »

Davies can canonize whatever he wants, that has no bearing on Trek vs Wars, neither of which recognize Dr Who as canon on any level. And I'm not sure what you're talking about, because 'fixed point in time' was the very reason the Doctor put forward for not being able to rescue Rory and Amy from 1930s New York in 'Angels in Manhattan'.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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