A Single Warship in either universe

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Re: A Single Warship in either universe

Post by Batman »

Cesario wrote:Voyager is a reasonably instructive example. They were a shittier ship for this kind of mission than the Galaxy posited by the OP. (Assuming they work out that warp core detonation problem the early Galaxies had.)
Yet lost in an utterly alien part of space, with people who's tech that, while based on the same fundamental physics principles, did not share any common designers, developers, engineers, or development history, managed to consistently find or make compatible replacement parts.
All of which nevertheless worked with the same materials, within the same broad performance parameters, and on the same working principles.

I have a far easier time believing replicators really are just that good than believing that Voyager's initial cargo included warp cores for ten times the shuttle fleet a ship of that class would be expected to need.
Since when do shuttles have Warp cores? Some of them have Warp drive. Not the same thing. As early as Kirk's time the Romulans had Warp drive despite being restricted to 'impulse power'.
Most likely scenario, they go exploring, find this part of space is unbelievably boring, and then put all the combined knowhow of their science departments into getting a wormhole that'll get them back to earth constructed.
Because that's exactly what VOY did. Oh wait.
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Re: A Single Warship in either universe

Post by Cesario »

Batman wrote:
Most likely scenario, they go exploring, find this part of space is unbelievably boring, and then put all the combined knowhow of their science departments into getting a wormhole that'll get them back to earth constructed.
Because that's exactly what VOY did. Oh wait.
Voyager was a hell of a lot closer to home than the ship posited in the OP was. 70 year trek is something they could do. Getting home from another galaxy without doing something drastic is pretty much impossible.

Voyager did note that they considered trying to use a gas giant to open an artificial wormhole, but decided against it because it was too great a risk. With taking the long way not at all an option, I can see the Galaxy's crew deciding to stick it out with the research to solve the engineering problems to make the artificial wormhole (which we saw them successfully make) traversable for living matter.
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Re: A Single Warship in either universe

Post by Batman »

Cesario wrote:
Batman wrote:
Most likely scenario, they go exploring, find this part of space is unbelievably boring, and then put all the combined knowhow of their science departments into getting a wormhole that'll get them back to earth constructed.
Because that's exactly what VOY did. Oh wait.
Voyager was a hell of a lot closer to home than the ship posited in the OP was. 70 year trek is something they could do.
It's something their kids could do. Maybe. Kinda.
Getting home from another galaxy without doing something drastic is pretty much impossible.
And a 70 year trip home is moderately pointless because by the time you get home, assuming you make it to begin with, and are still alive, everyone you cared about will have moved on with their lives, have had children, and grandchildren, and so on, so it pretty much amounts to the same thing. Wait until your life is effectively over or risk the wormhole thingy approach. Curious-VOY didn't. I wonder why.
Voyager did note that they considered trying to use a gas giant to open an artificial wormhole, but decided against it because it was too great a risk. With taking the long way not at all an option, I can see the Galaxy's crew deciding to stick it out with the research to solve the engineering problems to make the artificial wormhole (which we saw them successfully make) traversable for living matter.
Taking the long way was an option wasn't an option for VOY either. 70 years, remember? Yet they decided to do it the hard way rather than risk the wormhole, apparently. What makes you think the Fed ship stranded will risk potential immediate and possibly painful death rather than face a life away from home when VOY didn't under the same circumstances?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: A Single Warship in either universe

Post by Cesario »

Batman wrote: Taking the long way was an option wasn't an option for VOY either. 70 years, remember? Yet they decided to do it the hard way rather than risk the wormhole, apparently. What makes you think the Fed ship stranded will risk potential immediate and possibly painful death rather than face a life away from home when VOY didn't under the same circumstances?
People in Trek live longer than we do now. Isn't medical technology a wonderful thing?

What I'm suggesting they're likely to do is not just take the risk. I'm suggesting they'll weigh their options and decide they're actually more likely to perfect the technology in their lifetimes (especially with the better research departments than Voyager had) than they are to make a trans-galactic journey back home. Even assuming they could cross the Milky Way's galactic barrier once they got there.
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Re: A Single Warship in either universe

Post by Batman »

You're blithely assuming they will. Of course, feel free to show evidence they actually are likely to.
Oh, and the Galactic Barrier was a two-dimensional wall. Simply go above or below it. Not that we were ever shown it actually does encompass the entire galaxy.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: A Single Warship in either universe

Post by Crateria »

Cesario wrote: Even assuming they could cross the Milky Way's galactic barrier once they got there.
The E-Nil from what I remember went past the barrier twice.

Didn't the Kelvans exist in Andromeda? I could see them causing problems for a GCS trying to get into the Milky Way since they tried to get past the Barrier. They weren't the nicest of guys back then, and I doubt they're much nicer now.

And don't forget about the Planet Killer coming from another galaxy. Who knows if there's more of those things just waiting outside or approaching. Like how the Tyranids repeatedly sent their Hive Fleets into the 40k galaxy. If the GCS approached the Milky Way they could be in serious danger from either of those threats.
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Re: A Single Warship in either universe

Post by Batman »

Um-the GCS kinda starts out in the Milky Way. You do know one of the central planets of Trek is Earth, right?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: A Single Warship in either universe

Post by Crateria »

Batman wrote:Um-the GCS kinda starts out in the Milky Way. You do know one of the central planets of Trek is Earth, right?
The OP says the GCS is transported to the GFFA. You were talking about why the GCS wouldn't take a portal or wormhole back to their universe/galaxy if they could, right? Isn't the GCS going to end up outside the Milky Way or are they going to end up back in the Federation? If the latter, then I have issues with reading comprehension. :)
Damn you know it. You so smart you brought up like history and shit. Laying down facts like you was a blues clues episode or something. How you get so smart? Like the puns and shit you use are wicked smart, Red Letter Moron! HAHAHAHAH!1 Fucks that is funny, you like should be on TV with Jeff Dunham and shit.-emersonlakeandbalmer
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Re: A Single Warship in either universe

Post by Batman »

No, the fault is all mine. I kinda lost track of the OP scenario which absolutely has the GCS start out in the Wars galaxy.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: A Single Warship in either universe

Post by Baffalo »

Batman wrote:Um-VOY was facing a seventy year trip to get home. I'm not sure that's exactly comparable.

Also, no can do on bringing up any AQ level power to Wars standards. The SD is designed and outfitted to interface with with a Wars level infrastructure, not to create one essentially from scratch. Do modern day warships carry a library with step-by step instructions on how to go from flint axes to AEGIS cruisers? They may be able to provide a small amount of Wars level tools...the AQ can't make proper use of because they don't have the Wars technological base needed to use them properly.
If you ever get the chance, read Into the Storm: Destroyermen Book I by Taylor Anderson. It's pretty similar in that a WWII destroyer finds itself in another world with their machine shop and wits, and not much else other than a battered old destroyer, encountering another race that builds large wooden vessels, and their struggle to survive against overwhelming enemies. It's partially where I got the idea for the original idea.
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Re: A Single Warship in either universe

Post by LaCroix »

Cesario wrote:Voyager is a reasonably instructive example. They were a shittier ship for this kind of mission than the Galaxy posited by the OP. (Assuming they work out that warp core detonation problem the early Galaxies had.)

Yet lost in an utterly alien part of space, with people who's tech that, while based on the same fundamental physics principles, did not share any common designers, developers, engineers, or development history, managed to consistently find or make compatible replacement parts.

I have a far easier time believing replicators really are just that good than believing that Voyager's initial cargo included warp cores for ten times the shuttle fleet a ship of that class would be expected to need.

Whatever becomes of the Imperial ship, the Starfleet ship is likely to be capable of being self-sufficient for a very long time. Long enough to get a feel for where they've ended up and who the bad guys are anyway. From there, it depends on the preferences of the crew, whether they throw in with the Rebel Alliance, deliberately isolate themselves, or just ditch their ship and quietly assimilate into mainstream Imperial culture.

Most likely scenario, they go exploring, find this part of space is unbelievably boring, and then put all the combined knowhow of their science departments into getting a wormhole that'll get them back to earth constructed.
You know that Voyager actually took a 'shortcut' and only was lost from 2371 to 2378? 7 years...

And in this time, it had to refuel how many times? Had critical failures to main components (non-combat related) how many times?

If anything, Voyager is a propaganda piece about why Federation engineers should be strung up by their thumbs...
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

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Re: A Single Warship in either universe

Post by Crazedwraith »

LaCroix wrote: You know that Voyager actually took a 'shortcut' and only was lost from 2371 to 2378? 7 years...

And in this time, it had to refuel how many times? Had critical failures to main components (non-combat related) how many times?

If anything, Voyager is a propaganda piece about why Federation engineers should be strung up by their thumbs...
How about you provide your own evidence? How many times did they refuel? How may times did main components fail?

For myself I recall maybe one episode devoted to fuel. (The demon world one with the duplicates) and one episode when they wanted guns and that one episode where they went inside a living cloud for replicator rations.

And no episodes at all where major components failed without any external cause.
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Re: A Single Warship in either universe

Post by LaCroix »

A quick count revealed two instances of refuelling (with a good handful of others centred around the search for fuel, which is why I remembered the constant fuel scarcity) and 7 instances where transporter or computer mishaps posed a danger to the ship, including one warp core ejection, the infamous bio-network breakdown. The rest were problems due to holodeck and transporter issues. (Not counting shuttle crashes which occurred at least a handful of times.)

All in all, the Voyager technical performance wasn't as abysmal as I remembered.
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

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