Data vs an ION Blaster.

[Kadaeux]

Now I decided to create this one for fun....

Trekkies, there is no Data Dodging the blast, there is no help for Data, Data does get hit by the ION Blast no matter the circumstances.

Lets talk about, what would happen if a Jawa shot Data with an Ion Blaster.

Would it kill him or what?

[Base Delta Zero]

I am quite certain it would not kill him, seeing as how the ion blaster is meant to stun droids.

I'd think it would affect him however, seeing as how positrons carry a charge. However, they carry the opposite charge of normal electronics, so it's quite possible there will be some unusual effects.

[Kadaeux]

Like turning on his emotion chip and "swapping" the commands?

[Base Delta Zero]

Perhaps... it's also possible it would just disrupt the circuitry, but in the opposite direction.

[Surlethe]

I've never been quite clear on this; are we assuming Data is wired with antimatter?

[Eframepilot]

We can blame Isaac Asimov for this bit of technobabble. He wanted his robots to be more advanced than the electronics of the time, hence his creation of the positronic brain - positrons instead of electrons. Data has a "positronic matrix" as an homage to R. Daneel Olivaw and other Asimov robots. It's generally best to ignore how the charge carriers of such brains ought to annihilate out of existence very quickly.

[Old Plympto]

In addition to the Asimov reference, I always thought that positronic matrix was more of "positronic ©", sort of a new method of computing instead of using actual positrons. Just like there was "duotronic ©" before it in TOS. Not that copyright exists in the TNG Trekverse yadda yadda yadda, but you get the picture.

[Crossroads Inc.]

I think you might be on to something with that. I mean, do we go around calling machines by How they work? Or what company built them?

Calling something a "Positronic" could be the same as calling something a "Panasonic"

[The Silence and I]

Hard to be sure. Data is resistent to electrical discharges, although various forms of trek-energy can easily disable him, but you might think SW droids are also resistent to electrical discharges. I better understanding of how the Jawa ion blaster thing works would allow a better guess.

For example, if it simply sends a pulse of charged particles to the target then there will be clear upper limits on the charge produced--above a certain charge will cause dielectric breakdown in air and the weapon could easily arc back to the user.*

But if certain inexplicable technological do dads are employed, the limits are fuzzier...

*To illustrate: the gun fires a 'blob' of charge in the form of ions. What does that blob 'see' when it is only a few cm from the barrel? It will 'see' the gun first, the hand second, the body or ground after that, and the droid last. If the charge is above a certain limit the air will break down and conduct, and an arc of electricity will flow from the 'blob' to the gun, hand or whatever. Whatever it hits, it won't hit the droid.

[Bounty]

I've never been quite clear on this; are we assuming Data is wired with antimatter?

Very inlikely. Soong was probably just a big Asimov fan.

[Kadaeux]

It is obvious that Droids are resistant to electrical attacks as R2-D2 attack and SBD in Episode 3 and it says ow, shakes it's hand and kicks R2 over, so clearly the Ion blaster is of a higher order than that.

The Jawa Ion blaster is a much scaled down version of the Ion Cannon in TESB Which disables at least one ISD.

Sadly I don't think Asimov ever described the effects of something like lightning upon a Positronic brain, HOWEVER the Robot fighter in the movie Stealth was powered by a "Positronic" brain, it was struck by lightning and suffered a major "personality defect" (It got arrogant.) But I seriously doubt the validity of that movie.

[Bounty]

Data is resistent to electrical discharges

You're forgetting Disaster :

Data and Riker are stuck in a Jeffries tube that's been blocked off by an arc of electricity. A few relevant quotes :

RIKER
Data, there's at least half a
million amps flowing through that
arc. Can you take that much
current?

DATA
The power surge would cause a
system failure in most of my
internal processors and melt my
primary power couplings.
However, there is a chance that
the damage would not be
irreparable.

DATA
(thinks)
My positronic brain has several
layers of shielding to protect it
from power surges. It would be
possible for you to remove my
cranial unit and take it with
you.

DATA
My neural nets and memory core
are self-contained.
(beat)
I will be fine.

Then after getting it by the arc -

DATA
A remarkable experience,
Commander.

Riker is relieved. Data runs some kind of internal
diagnostic.

RIKER
How are you? Did the shielding
work?

DATA
(thinks)
Apparently so. My neural nets
are fully operational.

[The Silence and I]

It is obvious that Droids are resistant to electrical attacks as R2-D2 attack and SBD in Episode 3 and it says ow, shakes it's hand and kicks R2 over, so clearly the Ion blaster is of a higher order than that.

I have no doubt droids are insulated to protect from electrical discharges (if nothing else static discharges are a worry), but in this case A) we don't know the properties of that discharge and B) a military droid should have better insulation. Of course they also should be intelligent... but the point remains: we don't know much about that event. Maybe the Jawas can disable a SBD, maybe not.

The Jawa Ion blaster is a much scaled down version of the Ion Cannon in TESB Which disables at least one ISD.

It looks and acts a little bit like that, sure. Whatever that means. There are also technological factors to consider--the same book (Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology--which is more or less useless as a source) also describes these things as scavenged parts from an ion engine. I don't know if we can infer from that whether or not the gun can fire more charge than would cause dielectric breakdown. Presumably the kind of funky devices needed to prevent backarcing would need to be custom made for a gun. Or maybe not. The point is we do not know.

[The Silence and I]

Data is resistent to electrical discharges

You're forgetting Disaster :

Data and Riker are stuck in a Jeffries tube that's been blocked off by an arc of electricity. A few relevant quotes :

Actually, I was specifically thinking OF that. If half a million amps, with enough volts to breakdown the air and arc several feet, are a little above his upper limit, then it suggests he is well shielded, does it not?

[Kadaeux]

I understand and agree with your point because several references I have also mention Jawa blasters as somewhat unstable...

But this discussion is about the effects the Ion blast might have on Data, we are already assuming the blast hits, and nothing unexpected occurs... except with Data of course.

[The Silence and I]

But this discussion is about the effects the Ion blast might have on Data, we are already assuming the blast hits, and nothing unexpected occurs... except with Data of course.

The thing is, without knowing how much current and voltage that thing can apply to him, we can't really guess. We know he can take a 'fair' bit of electrical energy without shutting down (inferred from Disaster and some other events) and we know the blaster thing puts out a 'fair' bit. We don't know what 'fair' is though, and so we cannot be sure of the outcome.

[Kadaeux]

Well, I don't know much about the subject but perhaps Wong might be able to work it out? We know roughly the power levels of an ISD (Upper and Lower limits, i'm sure I saw the somewhere) It can probably be "scaled" down to aquire an accurate measure. Semi Accurate at least...

But until someone hopefully gives us this info, what do you think based of sources you've seen, would happen to Data if struck?

[The Silence and I]

I'm inclined to say Data can handle it as long as it is electricity.

And this is why: (TNG--Disaster)

500,000 amps were flowing (at least) and the arc was several feet wide. This implies maybe a few million volts (I need to check this later, but the number is going to be large whatever it emds up being). Power is volts * current, so Data absorbed something in the ball park of 5e11 Watts.

Which is ludicrous.* But there you go, the numbers tell us he can survive (although sustaining crippling damage) some 500 GW of electrical energy. Again, ludicrous. But going off that alone I have to say Data ignores the Jawa.

*According to other sources this represents maybe 1/10 the power output of the entire warp core, so something is rotten in Denmark, but my numbers are not wrong enough to fix that--even with 20 volts Data would absorb 10 MW--that's more energy per second than a military blaster delivers per shot. And 20 volts won't come close to arcing 2 or so meters.

[Base Delta Zero]

According to other sources this represents maybe 1/10 the power output of the entire warp core, so something is rotten in Denmark, but my numbers are not wrong enough to fix that--even with 20 volts Data would absorb 10 MW--that's more energy per second than a military blaster delivers per shot. And 20 volts won't come close to arcing 2 or so meters.

A military blaster isn't the same thing as an electrical arc. After all, those ball things that do litte more than make your hair stand on end carry a few megawatts, IIRC.

[The Silence and I]

A military blaster isn't the same thing as an electrical arc. After all, those ball things that do litte more than make your hair stand on end carry a few megawatts, IIRC.

I don't know about the 'ball thing' (unless you mean a Van De Graff generator--which is a static concentration of charge and has a weak electric field about its surface if you can touch it. If it is larger it can have an electric field approaching 3 MN/C at its surface, which is close to the breakdown of air, but you don't want to touch those ) but I do know that an electrical outlet, if short circuited with a screwdriver, will nearly immediately burn a hole in the metal. 120 volts, and some amps results in a few kW at most. A small fraction of this is dissipated as heat and vaporizes a tiny bit of the steel. Data is more resistent than steel--that is why he elected to attempt the open circuit--and this means he will dissipate less energy per watt avaliable than if he were a better conductor (in a lightbulb the brighter ones use less resistence to get more power dissipated). So he certainly won't be absorbing most of the arc's power output, but given the scale of the event he will be taking considerable power anyway.

What that amount is I cannot say, but the starting number is huge, the end number is not small.

[Lord Revan]

we should remember while his brain was functional Data was for all intents and purposes disabled by the arc in Disaster.

[Batman]

Data's brain works on antimatter, it must be able to take quite a pounding.
Silence basically got it down, if we have to assume that bloody blaster works via electricity, it's not likely to do more than scorch Data's uniform.
Of course it's probably something technobabbly but how do we quantify that?

[Lord Poe]

I haven't seen "The Ensigns of Command" in quite a while, but wasn't Data taken out by a hand-held electrical device from a colony of lesses tech than the current Federation?

[Darth Servo]

I haven't seen "The Ensigns of Command" in quite a while, but wasn't Data taken out by a hand-held electrical device from a colony of lesses tech than the current Federation?

"Ensigns of Command" and "The Most Toys" to be precise.

[The Silence and I]

I haven't seen "The Ensigns of Command" in quite a while, but wasn't Data taken out by a hand-held electrical device from a colony of lesses tech than the current Federation?

He was, but we don't know what principle that weapon used, or, if it was electrical we don't know what it was able to pump out.

Specific trek energy forms can easily disable Data, that I do not contest--we've seen it! 'The Most Toys' 'Ensigns of Command' that Iconian episode, phaser stun settings, etc. But an interesting thing these often have in common is they don't act like electricity.

I'm starting to think Data may be easily affected by, but but hard to damage with, electrical discharges. Notice he quickly rebooted after Gosheven's attack, and has recovered in part or whole from most similar events on his own in a timely manner. I'm reluctant to give a firm opinion just yet--there are examples of both extremes unfortunately.