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Quote of the Week: "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." - Will Durant, American historian (1885-1981)

Could the Borgias Have United Italy?

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Chirios
PostPosted: 2012-02-13 03:55pm 

Jedi Knight


Joined: 2010-07-09 12:27am
Posts: 502
I was watching the TV show and a thought occurred to me, had Rodrigo not died when he did could Cesare have successfully united Italy?
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Thanas
PostPosted: 2012-02-13 05:42pm 

Magister


Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm
Posts: 25665
No. There were bigger and more powerful states in Italy (Milano, Venice, Florence) that were not led by what every other civilized leader though to be vile and (more importantly) stupid idiots.

Also, Note that a lot of Italy belonged to the three great powers of the day:
- Spain
- The Holy Roman Empire
- France

There is no way any of these could have been held off by a Borgia army.
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Chirios
PostPosted: 2012-02-13 05:52pm 

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Joined: 2010-07-09 12:27am
Posts: 502
Thanas wrote:
No. There were bigger and more powerful states in Italy (Milano, Venice, Florence) that were not led by what every other civilized leader though to be vile and (more importantly) stupid idiots.

Also, Note that a lot of Italy belonged to the three great powers of the day:
- Spain
- The Holy Roman Empire
- France

There is no way any of these could have been held off by a Borgia army.


How far could they have gotten? They'd also have needed to integrate their conquests into a workable structure.
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Thanas
PostPosted: 2012-02-13 05:59pm 

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Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm
Posts: 25665
Not far at all. Remember they did not even have Rome under firm control, what with the different aristocratic families feuding over it. And they tried (unsuccesfully) to carve out their own territory in Northern Italy. Which they only managed to gain a foothold in due to French support.
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Elfdart
PostPosted: 2012-02-17 11:19am 

The Anti-Shep


Joined: 2004-04-28 11:32pm
Posts: 9586
Location: What's the bonus for shooting bad guys from behind?
Chirios wrote:
Thanas wrote:
No. There were bigger and more powerful states in Italy (Milano, Venice, Florence) that were not led by what every other civilized leader though to be vile and (more importantly) stupid idiots.

Also, Note that a lot of Italy belonged to the three great powers of the day:
- Spain
- The Holy Roman Empire
- France

There is no way any of these could have been held off by a Borgia army.


How far could they have gotten? They'd also have needed to integrate their conquests into a workable structure.


If you want an analogy to work with, keep in mind that Puzo' The Godfather series was in large part based on the Borgias, and the crime families in the books and movies based on the squabbling noble families in Italy. Did the Corleone Family get the upper hand on the others for a while? Yes. Was there any chance whatsoever of taking over all or most of New York? No.
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