Could the Borgias Have United Italy?

HIST: Discussions about the last 4000 years of history, give or take a few days.

Moderators: Thanas, K. A. Pital

Chirios
Jedi Knight
Posts: 502
Joined: 2010-07-09 12:27am

Could the Borgias Have United Italy?

Postby Chirios » 2012-02-13 02:55pm

I was watching the TV show and a thought occurred to me, had Rodrigo not died when he did could Cesare have successfully united Italy?

User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 29023
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Could the Borgias Have United Italy?

Postby Thanas » 2012-02-13 04:42pm

No. There were bigger and more powerful states in Italy (Milano, Venice, Florence) that were not led by what every other civilized leader though to be vile and (more importantly) stupid idiots.

Also, Note that a lot of Italy belonged to the three great powers of the day:
- Spain
- The Holy Roman Empire
- France

There is no way any of these could have been held off by a Borgia army.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs

Chirios
Jedi Knight
Posts: 502
Joined: 2010-07-09 12:27am

Re: Could the Borgias Have United Italy?

Postby Chirios » 2012-02-13 04:52pm

Thanas wrote:No. There were bigger and more powerful states in Italy (Milano, Venice, Florence) that were not led by what every other civilized leader though to be vile and (more importantly) stupid idiots.

Also, Note that a lot of Italy belonged to the three great powers of the day:
- Spain
- The Holy Roman Empire
- France

There is no way any of these could have been held off by a Borgia army.


How far could they have gotten? They'd also have needed to integrate their conquests into a workable structure.

User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 29023
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Could the Borgias Have United Italy?

Postby Thanas » 2012-02-13 04:59pm

Not far at all. Remember they did not even have Rome under firm control, what with the different aristocratic families feuding over it. And they tried (unsuccesfully) to carve out their own territory in Northern Italy. Which they only managed to gain a foothold in due to French support.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs

User avatar
Elfdart
The Anti-Shep
Posts: 9810
Joined: 2004-04-28 11:32pm
Location: What's the bonus for shooting bad guys from behind?

Re: Could the Borgias Have United Italy?

Postby Elfdart » 2012-02-17 10:19am

Chirios wrote:
Thanas wrote:No. There were bigger and more powerful states in Italy (Milano, Venice, Florence) that were not led by what every other civilized leader though to be vile and (more importantly) stupid idiots.

Also, Note that a lot of Italy belonged to the three great powers of the day:
- Spain
- The Holy Roman Empire
- France

There is no way any of these could have been held off by a Borgia army.


How far could they have gotten? They'd also have needed to integrate their conquests into a workable structure.


If you want an analogy to work with, keep in mind that Puzo' The Godfather series was in large part based on the Borgias, and the crime families in the books and movies based on the squabbling noble families in Italy. Did the Corleone Family get the upper hand on the others for a while? Yes. Was there any chance whatsoever of taking over all or most of New York? No.
Image


Return to “History”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests