Just a matter of time I suppose

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Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2012-02-01 10:12pm

Unforgettable
That's what you are,
Unforgettable
Tho' near or far.

Like a song of love that clings to me,
How the thought of you does things to me.
Never before
Has someone been more...

Unforgettable
In every way,
And forever more
That's how you'll stay.

That's why, darling, it's incredible
That someone so unforgettable
Thinks that I am...


...Unforgettable, too wrote:This summer, DC Entertainment will publish all-new stories expanding on the acclaimed WATCHMEN universe. As highly anticipated as they are controversial, the seven inter-connected prequel mini-series will build on the foundation of the original WATCHMEN, the bestselling graphic novel of all time. BEFORE WATCHMEN will be the collective banner for all seven titles, from DC Comics.

“It’s our responsibility as publishers to find new ways to keep all of our characters relevant,” said DC Entertainment Co-Publishers Dan DiDio and Jim Lee. “After twenty five years, the Watchmen are classic characters whose time has come for new stories to be told. We sought out the best writers and artists in the industry to build on the complex mythology of the original.”

Stepping up to the challenge is a group of the comic book industry’s most iconoclastic writers and artists – including Brian Azzarello (100 BULLETS), Lee Bermejo (JOKER), Amanda Conner (POWER GIRL), Darwyn Cooke (JUSTICE LEAGUE: NEW FRONTIER), John Higgins (WATCHMEN), Adam Hughes (CATWOMAN), J.G. Jones (FINAL CRISIS), Andy Kubert (FLASHPOINT), Joe Kubert (SGT. ROCK), Jae Lee (BATMAN: JEKYLL AND HYDE), J. Michael Straczynski (SUPERMAN: EARTH ONE) and Len Wein (SWAMP THING).

BEFORE WATCHMEN includes:

RORSCHACH (4 issues) – Writer: Brian Azzarello. Artist: Lee Bermejo

MINUTEMEN (6 issues) – Writer/Artist: Darwyn Cooke

COMEDIAN (6 issues) – Writer: Brian Azzarello. Artist: J.G. Jones

DR. MANHATTAN (4 issues) – Writer: J. Michael Straczynski. Artist: Adam Hughes

NITE OWL (4 issues) – Writer: J. Michael Straczynski. Artists: Andy and Joe Kubert

OZYMANDIAS (6 issues) – Writer: Len Wein. Artist: Jae Lee

SILK SPECTRE (4 issues) – Writer: Darwyn Cooke. Artist: Amanda Conner

Each week, a new issue will be released, and will feature a two-page back-up story called CURSE OF THE CRIMSON CORSAIR, written by original series editor Len Wein and with art by original series colorist John Higgins. There will also be a single issue, BEFORE WATCHMEN: EPILOGUE, featuring the work of various writers and artists, and a CRIMSON CORSAIR story by Wein and Higgins.

“The original series of WATCHMEN is the complete story that Alan Moore and I wanted to tell. However, I appreciate DC’s reasons for this initiative and the wish of the artists and writers involved to pay tribute to our work. May these new additions have the success they desire,” said Dave Gibbons, WATCHMEN co-creator and original series artist.

“Comic books are perhaps the largest and longest running form of collaborative fiction,” said DiDio and Lee. “Collaborative storytelling is what keeps these fictional universes current and relevant.”

This is a joke. This is all a joke.

Mother forgive me.


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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Terralthra » 2012-02-01 10:34pm

Alan Moore wrote:I tend to take this latest development as a kind of eager confirmation that they are still apparently dependent on ideas that I had 25 years ago.

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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Bright » 2012-02-02 04:10am

When I heard they were considering a prequel/sequel to Watchmen, I didn't think to expect such a thorough round of milking...

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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Havok » 2012-02-02 04:12am

The accumulated filth of all their comics and stories will foam up about their waists and all the writers and editors will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll whisper "no."
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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Havok » 2012-02-02 04:15am

In all honesty, you have to hand it to DC for holding off TWENTY FUCKING FIVE YEARS from trying to further one of their most acclaimed properties.

And fuck Alan Moore. He may be a great writer, but he is also a pretentious prick.
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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Bright » 2012-02-02 04:20am

True, I think Moore is being somewhat hypocritical about this.

J. Michael Straczynski wrote:The perception that these characters shouldn't be touched by anyone other than Alan is both absolutely understandable and deeply flawed. As good as these characters are – and they are very good indeed – one could make the argument, based on durability and recognition, that Superman is the greatest comics character ever created. But I don't hear Alan or anyone else suggesting that no one other than Shuster and Siegel should have been allowed to write Superman. Certainly Alan himself did this when he was brought on to write Swamp Thing, a seminal comics character created by Len Wein.

Leaving aside the fact that the Watchmen characters were variations on pre-existing characters created for the Charleton Comics universe, it should be pointed out that Alan has spent most of the last decade writing very good stories about characters created by other writers, including Alice (from Alice in Wonderland), Dorothy (from Wizard of Oz), Wendy (from Peter Pan), as well as Captain Nemo, the Invisible Man, Jeyll and Hyde, and Professor Moriarty (used in the successful League of Extraordinary Gentlemen). I think one loses a little of the moral high ground to say, "I can write characters created by Jules Verne, H.G. Wells, Robert Louis Stevenson, Arthur Conan Doyle and Frank Baum, but it's wrong for anyone else to write my characters."


However, these classical authors are dead and Moore isn't. Before Watchmen seems more like an idea by executives than writers. I can understand why he'd be bothered by it all, especially when taking into account his feelings about big comics companies screwing over artists over the years. The guy has DC higher-ups praising the artistic significance of his work while still fighting giving others proper due for their work.

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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Havok » 2012-02-02 04:44am

And their death means what exactly? That the characters instantly become writable by other people because their creators are dead?

The fact that Moore has a problem with the companies is also irrelevant to... well, anything about Watchmen. If he REALLY had such a big problem with DC he could have self published.

And as JSM pointed out, and people like to gloss over, these aren't exactly original characters. Moore put a very fresh spin on them, but they aren't from scratch out of his brain pan.
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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Bright » 2012-02-02 05:12am

Havok wrote:And their death means what exactly? That the characters instantly become writable by other people because their creators are dead.


It means these authors won't have to suffer their works being re-interpreted on an emotional level.

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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby CaptainChewbacca » 2012-02-02 05:31am

I just hope Moore has enough class to not critique the comics as they come out.
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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Darth Fanboy » 2012-02-02 05:34am

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I just hope Moore has enough class to not critique the comics as they come out.


Why does it matter? Either they are good or they aren't regardless of what he says, he probably could have expanded on the content at any point but he's too damn stubborn to do so. I can respect that, but that doesn't mean that I am going to value his opinion over my own.
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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Flagg » 2012-02-02 05:38am

This just in: Comic books are creatively bankrupt. More as it comes in.

Seriously, everything you needed to know about the Watchmen was in 'Watchmen'.
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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Stark » 2012-02-02 05:55am

Since the article expressly talks about how they simply want to more fully exploit the property, I think its pretty clear what they're about.

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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby VF5SS » 2012-02-02 07:51am

“Comic books are perhaps the largest and longest running form of collaborative fiction,” said DiDio and Lee. “Collaborative storytelling is what keeps these fictional universes current and relevant.”


That's adorable.

That really and truly is so wonderfully naive.
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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Sidewinder » 2012-02-02 08:34pm

VF5SS wrote:
“Comic books are perhaps the largest and longest running form of collaborative fiction,” said DiDio and Lee. “Collaborative storytelling is what keeps these fictional universes current and relevant.”


That's adorable.

That really and truly is so wonderfully naive.

I agree. "Collaborative storytelling keeps comics current and relevant?" Tell that to someone who had to suffer through God knows how many retcons and rewrites- enough to make Dragonball Z look like a Shakespearean play, for all the hack writing Toriyama Akira is capable of- within the last decade ALONE.
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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Havok » 2012-02-02 11:31pm

You guys are dumbasses and miss the point of the what they are saying.

They aren't talking about JUST the stories. They are talking about the art, the letters, the color, the plotting, the editing. It takes A LOT of people to create a comic book. AND it isn't only the writers that have influence on the stories themselves.

On top of that, here you are, talking about the clearly not current or relevant comics.
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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Ford Prefect » 2012-02-03 01:37am

Havok wrote:And as JSM pointed out, and people like to gloss over, these aren't exactly original characters. Moore put a very fresh spin on them, but they aren't from scratch out of his brain pan.


Sure, that's all true, but it's still unnecessarily adding to what was an entirely complete work. And, honestly, a complete work which only has historical relevance. Like you said, it's impressive that DC waited 25 years to do this ... but they're twenty four years too late to say anything meaningful with the attempt.
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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby mr friendly guy » 2012-02-03 04:29am

Its only hypocritical if those other authors objected to Moore using their characters, but Moore still went ahead anyway while at the same time holding this view towards his Watchmen characters.

At the same time what did he expect? American intellectual property laws don't seem to apply the same way as British ones are. His view might lack merit, but its stretching it a bit to dub him a hypocrite. Methinks the tu quoque argument is becoming popular again.

Now if it turns out Len Wein or some other author did object to other authors writing their characters and made it known to Moore, and Moore ignored them, then I withdraw my above statement.
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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Havok » 2012-02-03 05:19am

Ford Prefect wrote:
Havok wrote:And as JSM pointed out, and people like to gloss over, these aren't exactly original characters. Moore put a very fresh spin on them, but they aren't from scratch out of his brain pan.


Sure, that's all true, but it's still unnecessarily adding to what was an entirely complete work. And, honestly, a complete work which only has historical relevance. Like you said, it's impressive that DC waited 25 years to do this ... but they're twenty four years too late to say anything meaningful with the attempt.

Oh I agree. See my first post.

I was just commenting on Moore being pissy about other people writing about his precious characters.
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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby VF5SS » 2012-02-03 08:23am

Sidewinder wrote:I agree. "Collaborative storytelling keeps comics current and relevant?" Tell that to someone who had to suffer through God knows how many retcons and rewrites- enough to make Dragonball Z look like a Shakespearean play, for all the hack writing Toriyama Akira is capable of- within the last decade ALONE.


Are you some kind of dumbass who only experienced DBZ through the cartoon, cuz that's not his fault.

Also the shonen formula is more successful than any comic ever~

Maybe DC and Marvel should adopt Japan's idea of disposable culture.

Instead of attempt to continue stories they're just going to retcon anyways, simply reboot every year or so with a set of clear goals in mind and a competent editorial staff.
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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Duckie » 2012-02-03 08:36am

They probably should. I mean, cultural differences and all, but the Manga industry is so much larger than the US Comic industry it's not even funny.

Hell, the US Manga Industry is anemic and made up of only a few ultra-popular series (in only a few genres like shounen) and it's almost as big as the US Comics industry due to the attenuating, aging fanbase of superhero comics. I checked once cause I was curious when I heard that selling 20,000 copies is pretty good for a comic.

Also the comic industry might want to explore genres other than 'superhero' again. That's the main reason why neither I nor anybody I know reads comics but do occasionally look at manga.

But I dunno, I'm not a comicfan, or a huge manga reader, and I'm definitely not someone who knows how to revitalise an industry or anything. But clearly manga is doing pretty okay, even in the US with all the problems with licensing and translation and lack of title selection, and comics proper aren't no matter how many times they reboot it (which appears to be about as futile as those little paddle things shocking a heart the 20th time).

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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby VF5SS » 2012-02-03 10:44am

If your primary goal is to simply allow established characters to persist, you can simply start a new storyline with possibly a new take on events or familiar tropes by doing a yearly series. You don't even have to tell the origin story over and over again, just let characters dictate the story and not the story overwhelm them. It certainly works in all of the cartoon and movie adaptations of said characters.

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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Sidewinder » 2012-02-03 10:57am

VF5SS wrote:
Sidewinder wrote:I agree. "Collaborative storytelling keeps comics current and relevant?" Tell that to someone who had to suffer through God knows how many retcons and rewrites- enough to make Dragonball Z look like a Shakespearean play, for all the hack writing Toriyama Akira is capable of- within the last decade ALONE.


Are you some kind of dumbass who only experienced DBZ through the cartoon, cuz that's not his fault.

The manga IS his fault. I pretty much lost interest after the Majin Buu arc, with all of the "Let's fight!" "No, let's wait until I become more powerful, and able to offer you a REAL fight," "Okay! Time's up, let's fight!" bullshit.
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)

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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Vendetta » 2012-02-03 12:05pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I just hope Moore has enough class to not critique the comics as they come out.


I very much doubt he will.

He tends not to bother unless he's asked directly. Pretty much every time I've heard about him talking about adaptations or sequels or whatever is when he's been specifically asked in an interview.

He's not Warren Ellis, who will hold forth on any subject at all at great length at the drop of a bar tab.

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Re: Just a matter of time I suppose

Postby Vendetta » 2012-02-03 12:07pm

Sidewinder wrote:The manga IS his fault. I pretty much lost interest after the Majin Buu arc, with all of the "Let's fight!" "No, let's wait until I become more powerful, and able to offer you a REAL fight," "Okay! Time's up, let's fight!" bullshit.


That's somewhat after Akira Toriyama had lost interest. He originally only intended to write up to Frieza, but Shueisha kept cracking the whip for moar dragginballz..


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