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Quote of the Week: "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." - Will Durant, American historian (1885-1981)

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Phantasee
PostPosted: 2012-01-16 02:23pm 

Was mich nicht umbringt, macht mich stärker.


Joined: 2004-02-26 10:44pm
Posts: 5747
Location: Versace Versace Medusa head on me like I'm 'luminati
Wow. Almost makes me wish I had taken more than one linguistics course.
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RogueIce
PostPosted: 2012-01-18 04:17pm 

_______


Joined: 2003-01-05 02:36am
Posts: 12381
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
So, Latin stuff.

If I were to want to have, say, "Republic of the Moon" in Latin, is Respublica Luna good? Respublica Lunae? Res publica Luna/Lunae? That's what Google Translate gave me, anyway.

Also, if I use the ae in the proper 'together' form, should I use any other special characters or just that one?

Yes, I'm going for "Lunar Republic" in Latin, but since Lunar is kinda-sorta-already-derived-from Latin I'm not sure how to accomplish that, other than simply making it "Republic of the Moon" because "Moon Republic" just looks silly. Unless the language gurus have better ideas?

Also: Knight of the Moon. In the coolest looking way possible. Kinda same as above as I'm looking for "Lunar Knight" so yeah.
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evilsoup
PostPosted: 2012-01-18 04:29pm 

Jedi Knight


Joined: 2011-04-01 11:41am
Posts: 793
Location: G-D SAVE THE QUEEN
Oh my god.
Seriously, RogueIce?
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Thanas
PostPosted: 2012-01-18 04:42pm 

Magister


Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm
Posts: 25162
The proper translation would be "res publica pedicatorum". In the same way, knight of the moon would be "Equites pedicatorum".

*Mutters hatefully*: "Bronies"
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RogueIce
PostPosted: 2012-01-18 04:57pm 

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Joined: 2003-01-05 02:36am
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Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
evilsoup wrote:
Oh my god.
Seriously, RogueIce?

Yes.

Why not?

Thanas wrote:
The proper translation would be "res publica pedicatorum". In the same way, knight of the moon would be "Equites pedicatorum".

So why was Google giving me Luna? Aside from "it sucks".

Thanas wrote:
*Mutters hatefully*: "Bronies"

Wiktionary wrote:
pēdīcātōrum
1.genitive plural of pēdīcātor


Wiktionary wrote:
pēdīcātor (genitive pēdīcātōris); m, third declension
1.Alternative form of paedīcātor ("sodomite").

Waaaaaiiiit a minute, here...

Should I get a second opinion? :wtf:
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Thanas
PostPosted: 2012-01-18 05:01pm 

Magister


Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm
Posts: 25162
No no, you should definitely not do that. Don't trust wiktionary, it lies. LIES, I SAY.
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RogueIce
PostPosted: 2012-01-18 05:02pm 

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Joined: 2003-01-05 02:36am
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Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
Thanas wrote:
evilsoup wrote:
Oh my god.
Seriously, RogueIce?

This only makes me more suspicious.
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Thanas
PostPosted: 2012-01-18 05:03pm 

Magister


Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm
Posts: 25162
No no, you should definitely not get a second opinion. Don't trust wiktionary, it lies. LIES, I SAY.


[Reveal] Spoiler:
:P
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hongi
PostPosted: 2012-01-21 08:31am 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2006-10-15 02:14am
Posts: 1929
Location: Sydney
Oh you Thanas. I'm going to take pity on the poor man.

RogueIce wrote:
So, Latin stuff.

If I were to want to have, say, "Republic of the Moon" in Latin, is Respublica Luna good? Respublica Lunae? Res publica Luna/Lunae? That's what Google Translate gave me, anyway.


Respublica Lunae = Republic of the Moon/Moon Republic.

Respublica Lunaris = Lunar Republic.

RogueIce wrote:
Also, if I use the ae in the proper 'together' form, should I use any other special characters or just that one?
You mean the ligature æ? Nah, no need. There's no proper form for writing Latin.

RogueIce wrote:
Also: Knight of the Moon. In the coolest looking way possible. Kinda same as above as I'm looking for "Lunar Knight" so yeah.


Eques Lunae = Knight of the Moon/Moon Knight

Eques Lunaris = Lunar Knight
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Thanas
PostPosted: 2012-01-21 09:46am 

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Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm
Posts: 25162
Now I shall torture RogueIce by not revealing the four mistakes in that translation. :P
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hongi
PostPosted: 2012-01-21 09:55am 

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Joined: 2006-10-15 02:14am
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Location: Sydney
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Pff, as if he'll know the difference between French and Latin.
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RogueIce
PostPosted: 2012-01-21 02:23pm 

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Thanas wrote:
Now I shall torture RogueIce by not revealing the four mistakes in that translation. :P

:cry:
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Duckie
PostPosted: 2012-01-21 05:00pm 

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Joined: 2003-08-28 08:16pm
Posts: 3980
I don't see any huge mistakes, so I think Thanas is simply taunting you. Otherwise he should put his money where his keyboard is and demonstrate his superior Latin knowledge to me.

Eques could be "Miles". Closer in meaning (in medieval latin at least) to the concept of the knight you're looking for, as there weren't really Chivalric Knights. "Eques" is 'dude on a horse' more than 'warrior of chivalry', and Miles is in classical latin 'soldier', and the professional implication of the latter came to be applied to the warrior caste of later europe for whom fighting was their profession, as opposed to levies, and thus gained a veneer of honour. Eques meanwhile came to mean 'guy on a horse' and seems more common in chess than warfare descriptions, although almost all medieval Miles could presumably be described as Eques (but not all Eques are Miles in medieval latin, I would further guess).

I don't think "Respublica Lunae" is incorrect, but it's certainly not what would spring to mind for me. Let me run you through my idea.

To name the republic we really need the name of the ethnicity of people who live on the moon. Let's give some options, and english glosses:
Lunatici ('Lunatics', with the same implication, but -ticus is a common 'of X' suffic like 'Helveticus')
Lunari ('Lunars', akin to Romanus or Gallus from Roma and Gallia)

In those the proper genitive would be Lunaticorum, Lunarorum.

I would suggest Respublica Lunarorum, completely arbitrarily, because it has a good ring. There is no established roman word for which particular possible luna-derived adjective people on the moon would take so it's not that bad.

If it really is 'Republic of the Moon (the geographic area)' rather than 'Republic of the [People who Live On The Moon]' Respublica Lunae or Lunaris seems reasonable to me.

Although if it's led by a monarch, it should probably be a Regnum, so that's kind of weird.
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RogueIce
PostPosted: 2012-01-21 05:25pm 

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Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
Thanks Duckie!

And yeah, more properly it would be Lunar Principality/Principality of the Moon, being led by a Princess and all. But for whatever reason all the fan songs used Lunar Republic so that's what I was going for.

As far as naming it, that is a tricky question. Do they live on the moon? Well no, it's mostly named because the Moon is, basically, the symbol of their leader. Or something like that. So "Republic of the Moon [geographic area]" would probably fit as such. Since they're referring to the moon (or a moon) itself.

EDIT: To expand, I suspect the form "Lunar [Whatever]" is referring to the Princess herself*, whereas "[Whatever] of the Moon" uses the moon as a symbol.

*Or simply "Lunar" being a way to refer to things relating to the moon (lunar eclipse, lunar explorer and so on) which probably doesn't help, since "lunar" is derived from the Latin anyway I think.

Of course Luna herself says she's "Princess of the Night" so maybe "Night [Government form]/[Government form] of the Night" would also work.

I think "Knight of the Moon" works, because that's a title and all. Kinda like a shorter version of "Knight of the Moon Princess" and such. Although "Knight of the Night" would be amusing. :)
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Rabid
PostPosted: 2012-01-21 05:44pm 

Jedi Knight


Joined: 2010-09-18 05:20pm
Posts: 891
Location: The Land Of Cheese
RogueIce wrote:
I think "Knight of the Moon" works, because that's a title and all. Kinda like a shorter version of "Knight of the Moon Princess" and such. Although "Knight of the Night" would be amusing. :)

Knights of the Night ?

"What, are you dense ?
Are you retarded or something ?
Who the hell do you think I am ?
I'm the goddamn BatMare !"
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RogueIce
PostPosted: 2012-01-21 05:47pm 

_______


Joined: 2003-01-05 02:36am
Posts: 12381
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
Rabid wrote:
RogueIce wrote:
I think "Knight of the Moon" works, because that's a title and all. Kinda like a shorter version of "Knight of the Moon Princess" and such. Although "Knight of the Night" would be amusing. :)

Knights of the Night ?

As an organization, sure. But in my head I was thinking of it being a singular person with that title. With lesser knights and soldiers having some as-yet undefined title(s).
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Mayabird
PostPosted: 2012-01-22 07:22pm 

Storytime!


Joined: 2003-11-26 05:31pm
Posts: 5970
Location: IA > GA
And a couple more.

Image

I'm guessing "Why are you here?" Maybe more literally "Whatfor are you here?"

Image

[Hell?] will [do something really terrible to me]. No good guess on this, though I can guess the tone.

Are these still in the same Scandinavian language? Also, isn't there something about how the different Scandinavian languages could be considered dialects of the same one, or am I just being stupidly ignorant here?
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Duckie
PostPosted: 2012-01-22 07:49pm 

Sith Marauder


Joined: 2003-08-28 08:16pm
Posts: 3980
hwor=where (hwer), so wherefore = why (as in 'wherefore art thou romeo')

so it's "Why are you here"

Helvete, Switzerland Hell
Spise, Eat, as in german 'Speisen', apparently from a latin loan into old germanic 'spensa' meaning 'provisions' (things spent for) that came to mean food.
deg, undoubtedly the object form of du (equivalent to thou/thee or tu/te)
levende, living, akin to german 'leben' (life)

"Hell will eat you alive"

Undoubtedly still Norwegian.

It is true that Norwegian and Danish (and t a lesser degree Swedish) are very close. There are two forms of Norwegian, Bokmal and Nynorsk. The latter is more conservative and is the closest to Danish, sort of like how North German german dialects are closer to Dutch while still being German. Swedish is sort of like English, German's cousin that is mostly incomprehensible to any of the german dialects besides in simple phrases but still recognizably related. Icelandic is like if somewhere in ireland they still spoke perfect old english with like 2 or 3 changes since Beowulf- understandable to the Germans (Norwegian and Danish) more than the English (Swedes), but mostly incomprehensible due to time changing the germans and english's languages much more than these peoples. Finnish is absolutely unrelated, being as closely related to Swedish as Japanese is to English (some loanwords but different family entirely), but often gets mistaken for scandinavian even though it sounds nothing like it because the finns happen to live in the same geographic region (unlike japanese, mind, the metaphor breaks down there).

Whether that makes Norwegian and Danish the same language just because they can sort of understand eachother is unclear. It is like the biological definition of species- if two languages can intercommunicate with varying degrees of difficulty, at what point do they cease to be 'the same species/language' and start being more like horses and donkeys or lions and tigers? Back in 1000 they were obviously the same language (Old Norse) with east and west dialects (future swedish and future everything else), but it's messy now as they're not fully apart.

Most linguists make Danish and Norwegian different languages but Bokmal and Nynorsk part of the same language, but that's completely arbitrary and influenced by the political borders as much as facts. This same problem occurs in many places- is Scots a distinct language that happens to be very close to English? Linguistically the answer is perhaps yes, but anglophones would never accept 'bad english' as another language. And whether Valencian is a language separate from Catalan depends on whether you're from Valencia or Catalunya.
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LaCroix
PostPosted: 2012-01-23 08:37am 

Sith Devotee


Joined: 2004-12-21 01:14pm
Posts: 2773
Location: Vienna, Austria, Europe, Terra
Duckie wrote:
And whether Valencian is a language separate from Catalan depends on whether you're from Valencia or Catalunya.


It's furryspeak - it sounds as if you were stomping on a cat that begs for mercy. I always expect them wearing a fur-suit when thea talk like that - Mao-wao-how-gao-meow... (Personal experience after living in Alicante for years...) Don't get me started on Catalan and their spelling vs. pronunciation...
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hongi
PostPosted: 2012-01-24 10:06am 

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Joined: 2006-10-15 02:14am
Posts: 1929
Location: Sydney
Look what I have here...

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


P.S this is in good Latin, no internet translator crap.
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Thanas
PostPosted: 2012-01-24 11:22am 

Magister


Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm
Posts: 25162
Except the guys forgot the negative association of magia in latin. :lol:
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Spoonist
PostPosted: 2012-01-24 12:37pm 

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Joined: 2002-09-20 11:15am
Posts: 2399
@Duckie vs scandinavia

Norwegians and Swedes understands each other quite well. Its those danes that none can understand. Which has little to do with written language or how close related they are but rather that their "dialect" has been sodomized by germans. While the norwegians were sodomized by the swedes for a hundred years or so. So the further north you go in denmark, ie away from ze germans, the easier they are to understand for other scandinavians. With the same being true for norwegians in the ultima thule (NW) of norway the pronounciation/dialect is the least sodomized by swedes so none understand them either.
So the norwegians got their writing and language base from being sodomized by the danes while their pronounciation and articulation they got from being sodomized by the swedes.
Lots of norwegians watch swedish television for instance, while very few of them watch danish tv.

The Icelanders usually understand danish better than what norwegians and swedes do, probably because they were sodomized by the danes until 1944. (Officially, it really ended with the british invasion on the 10th of May 1940 which then handed them over to the yanks until the germans stopped oppressing everybody else).

So in all the scandinavian settings while growing up, norwegians and swedes would use their own languages, while when talking to danes and icelanders we would switch to english. The finns got tought swedish in school back then so they usually were pretty good at swedish if they came from the urban areas (Which is a leftover from when the finns were sodomized by the swedes, ending with their being sodomized by russians instead from 1809 until the commie revolution in 1917).
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Duckie
PostPosted: 2012-01-24 02:52pm 

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Joined: 2003-08-28 08:16pm
Posts: 3980
Thanas wrote:
Except the guys forgot the negative association of magia in latin. :lol:


At least for post-Roman Latin, Giordano Bruno didn't seem to think so. Any negative implications were probably lost in the shift to garbage latin medieval latin, so it's technically valid.

Extra Credit Exercise: Consider the similar varying positive to neutral to negative, scary to not scary even to cute implications that vary along Japanese makai vs akuma vs majin vs vs mahou (modern meaning) vs majo vs majokko vs mahou shoujo for a word that probably could be translated in its original historical use as 'demon' best, yet can be used as a translation for the Zauber in Zauberflotte without weirdness.

Quote:
Duckie vs scandinavia

Norwegians and Swedes understands each other quite well. Its those danes that none can understand. Which has little to do with written language or how close related they are but rather that their "dialect" has been sodomized by germans. While the norwegians were sodomized by the swedes for a hundred years or so. So the further north you go in denmark, ie away from ze germans, the easier they are to understand for other scandinavians. With the same being true for norwegians in the ultima thule (NW) of norway the pronounciation/dialect is the least sodomized by swedes so none understand them either.
So the norwegians got their writing and language base from being sodomized by the danes while their pronounciation and articulation they got from being sodomized by the swedes.
Lots of norwegians watch swedish television for instance, while very few of them watch danish tv.

The Icelanders usually understand danish better than what norwegians and swedes do, probably because they were sodomized by the danes until 1944. (Officially, it really ended with the british invasion on the 10th of May 1940 which then handed them over to the yanks until the germans stopped oppressing everybody else).

So in all the scandinavian settings while growing up, norwegians and swedes would use their own languages, while when talking to danes and icelanders we would switch to english. The finns got tought swedish in school back then so they usually were pretty good at swedish if they came from the urban areas (Which is a leftover from when the finns were sodomized by the swedes, ending with their being sodomized by russians instead from 1809 until the commie revolution in 1917).


Oh, right. My information was for a while ago, like a few hundred years. I forgot about the recent (in the grand scheme of things) Danish shifts which make their language quite bizarre sounding to other scandinavians as I understand it. I also was under the impression Bokmal was genetically closer to Danish than Swedish, but given the recent changes it's likely it might not sound it.

Nonetheless genetically it does go as I stated in my previous post as far as separation, even if comprehensionwise it doesn't (I conflated the two, figuring it was probably correct). Sort of like, I guess, how you can look more like your cousin than your sister but you're still closely related to the latter even if people would intuitively guess you're closer to the former.
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Thanas
PostPosted: 2012-01-24 02:57pm 

Magister


Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm
Posts: 25162
Duckie wrote:
Thanas wrote:
Except the guys forgot the negative association of magia in latin. :lol:


At least for post-Roman Latin, Giordano Bruno didn't seem to think so.


Huge difference to the Romans though in late Antiquity, who had laws against "magi".
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Duckie
PostPosted: 2012-01-24 02:58pm 

Sith Marauder


Joined: 2003-08-28 08:16pm
Posts: 3980
Thanas wrote:
Duckie wrote:
Thanas wrote:
Except the guys forgot the negative association of magia in latin. :lol:


At least for post-Roman Latin, Giordano Bruno didn't seem to think so.


Huge difference to the Romans though in late Antiquity, who had laws against "magi".


Maybe they were writing in medieval latin. :)
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