So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by FaxModem1 »

Any word on Green Arrow #1? He's probably my favorite of the DC crew and I'm curious how this 'reboot' treated him.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Justice »

FaxModem1 wrote:Any word on Green Arrow #1? He's probably my favorite of the DC crew and I'm curious how this 'reboot' treated him.
He's a lot younger and looks like he's closer to the start of his career. No beard (Looks a lot like Earth-2 GA, to be honest), but a 5 o'clock shadow. Queen Industries is closer to an Apple equivalent, competing with LexCorp, WayneTech, Holt Industries. He has a bit of Iron Man in him, doing his vigilante stuff while on a conference call. He himself has a small team who helps him out (One makes gadgets, the other acts as a information hound/Oracle equivalent). It's really hard to tell, but he doesn't quite seem to be his old witty self; seems a bit too serious to me. Haven't seen anything of his politics yet. Works out of Seattle, which I actually like (DC needs to spread into the real cities a bit more).

As for the writing, it's passable. Personally, I need to see more before I go one way or the other. Again, I like some of the concepts behind the new Ollie, but I'd like to see more of the old Ollie in him as well. Hopefully the second issue will deliver this.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Batman »

I dunno. Ollie's just not Ollie without the beard and the silly hat.
One issue is of course not nearly enough for any reasonable evaluation but what I've seen so far seems to be leaning towards the 'Smallville' Green Arrow, who is essentially me painted green (plus a little Iron Man for character defects) only with a sense of humour.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by mr friendly guy »

Legion Lost isn't promising so far. Spoiler
They apparently killed off Gates (one of my favourite Legionnaires) and Chameleon girl. Reminds me of the other Legion Lost written by Abnett for the reboot version, where they killed off other characters as well. Not promising so far.
Hopefully the other Legion book turns out good.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Justice »

mr friendly guy wrote:Legion Lost isn't promising so far. Spoiler
They apparently killed off Gates (one of my favourite Legionnaires) and Chameleon girl. Reminds me of the other Legion Lost written by Abnett for the reboot version, where they killed off other characters as well. Not promising so far.
Hopefully the other Legion book turns out good.
Spoiler
I'm not completely sure Chameleon Girl is dead. I mean, she's a Durlan; it's not like they couldn't come back from their body being splattered.
I didn't like how this was written. I got the basic ideas behind the plot, but the dialogue felt like I was reading something that was and wasn't English at the same time. I can tolerate a liberal amount of pseudo-future/science terms and such, but it kind of killed the flow for me.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Bedlam »

mr friendly guy wrote:Legion Lost isn't promising so far. Spoiler
They apparently killed off Gates (one of my favourite Legionnaires) and Chameleon girl. Reminds me of the other Legion Lost written by Abnett for the reboot version, where they killed off other characters as well. Not promising so far.
Hopefully the other Legion book turns out good.
Spoiler
I'm still holding out that there both not really dead, Gates is one of my favourites as well. It seems a waste to have both of them getting a fair amount of screen time in the fist issued only to die unless its a 'oh anyone can die at any time' attempt to up the anti.
The problem I can see with the premise is that it has a fairly definite end. Sooner or later the time line gets fixed and / or they find a way home if the series continues you just keep getting more and more ways that things go wrong 'well that time machine doesn't work just like the last dozen we tried' or 'well I guess there must be yet more disruptions to the time line we have to find and stop'. It might work better as a limited series rather than an ongoing.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by 18-Till-I-Die »

Havok wrote: Gawd, I want to punch you in the face right now.

Gawd? Why would you want to punch him? He'd kick your ass man! Lobo had trouble with him, you're not even a superhero!

(unless you're THAT Havok in which case, spoiler warning--they fucked you up in X-Men First Class, like "Director translates laser hands into energy hoola-hoops" fucked up :( )


Anyway...

I'd like to add, for me the runaway hit of awesome in this reboot so far is Stormwatch. Don't want to spoil it, but they're fighting the moon. Not people FROM the moon, the moon itself. It forms into a huge claw and tries to gank the Earth. That alone made me enjoy it.

Also Midnighter's new costume makes him look less like a tool trying to rip off the Matrix and more like what he is: a tool trying to rip off Batman.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by JME2 »

Batwing is another surprise from the relaunch -- and I usually dislike Judd Winnick.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by Justice »

JME2 wrote:Batwing is another surprise from the relaunch -- and I usually dislike Judd Winnick.
You and me both. That was a damn-solid book with a lot of neat concepts to explore.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by 18-Till-I-Die »

I may have to check that out. Batwing is one of my "meh" books--it looked ok but I never thought about it really.

What I'm really looking forward to is what they're doing in Stormwatch and JLA. I was really surprised that they came right out of the gate with the New Gods, book one, day one of this reboot and like I said I now HAVE to know what the "man in the moon" stuff is about in Stormwatch.

Also, has anyone read about that weird red chick in all the comics so far? I hear tell it's supposed to be "Lady Pariah", some female version of the guy from the original Crisis on Infinite Earths who teleports to where ever disasters are happening, thus explaining her being in the thicket of danger every five seconds. Of course I also hear tell she's supposed to be Marvel's Crimson Cowl and they're moving forward on a new Marvel vs DC with the rebooted DC/Wildstorm characters or something so who knows if that's true or just rumors.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

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18-Till-I-Die wrote:I may have to check that out. Batwing is one of my "meh" books--it looked ok but I never thought about it really.

What I'm really looking forward to is what they're doing in Stormwatch and JLA. I was really surprised that they came right out of the gate with the New Gods, book one, day one of this reboot and like I said I now HAVE to know what the "man in the moon" stuff is about in Stormwatch.

Also, has anyone read about that weird red chick in all the comics so far? I hear tell it's supposed to be "Lady Pariah", some female version of the guy from the original Crisis on Infinite Earths who teleports to where ever disasters are happening, thus explaining her being in the thicket of danger every five seconds. Of course I also hear tell she's supposed to be Marvel's Crimson Cowl and they're moving forward on a new Marvel vs DC with the rebooted DC/Wildstorm characters or something so who knows if that's true or just rumors.
The Red Lady - as I'm calling her -- appeared at the end of the Flashpoint event. In his attempt to restore the timeline, the Flash discovered that the main DCU timeline was actually three separate timelines (accounting for DC, Vertigo, and Wildstorm). The Red Lady told Barry the timeline had been splint into three by an unknown foe, one against which they would have to unite (and which I'm assuming will form the foundation of the next DC event). Her appearance across all the books is similar to Pariah, indicating she's keeping an eye on the new timeline and how it will fare.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by 18-Till-I-Die »

Oh yeah I know WHAT the chick is but I mean like WHO is she, what I mean is has anyone heard anything CONCRETE about it, because so far all I hear is rumors and voodoo bullshit from people who "know people in the biz man!"

I mean frankly I've heard everything from the retarded (Crimson Cowl, a female Access) to the reasonable (Lady Pariah) to the possible but unlikely (female version of the Brothers from Marvel vs DC) over the last week or so. Then, like Comicvine says "oh she's a sentient timeline called Time Trapper who apparently was in like a Legion of Superheroes book once" or some female Monitor who died in Final Crisis or something and then my mind gets all "FFFFFFUUUUUUU-"
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

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Fair enough.

Also, despite an aborted return to the Flash, Johns stated the intention was to show that the Speedsters were to time as the GLC is to space. I'm curious if she was created specifically for the reboot or if she was always part of Johns' plans; probably the former.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

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18-Till-I-Die wrote: I mean frankly I've heard everything from the retarded (Crimson Cowl, a female Access) to the reasonable (Lady Pariah) to the possible but unlikely (female version of the Brothers from Marvel vs DC) over the last week or so. Then, like Comicvine says "oh she's a sentient timeline called Time Trapper who apparently was in like a Legion of Superheroes book once" or some female Monitor who died in Final Crisis or something and then my mind gets all "FFFFFFUUUUUUU-"
Time Trapper has appeared numerous times in the LSH as a recurring villain. Only in the recent Legion of 3 worlds was it hypothesised by Brainiac 5 that he was really a sentient time line (which may or may not be correct).
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

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JME2 wrote:Also, despite an aborted return to the Flash, Johns stated the intention was to show that the Speedsters were to time as the GLC is to space. I'm curious if she was created specifically for the reboot or if she was always part of Johns' plans; probably the former.
Well, that just makes a recent fan-comic reaction Casstoon even more hilarious.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

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:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

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Man, how cool would it have been to explore a serious, not done in the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s, not ridiculous interaction between Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne as they start out.

No, let's keep Damien. Isn't he from another fucking Earth anyway?

Don't get me wrong, I like Drake and even liked Todd and actually voted for him to live, but for fucks sake, how can DC call this a reboot and keep all of Batman's 70 year history and say it's all crammed into like 5 years. When exactly did Bruce Wayne sleep in the last 5 years?
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

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Havok wrote:Man, how cool would it have been to explore a serious, not done in the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s, not ridiculous interaction between Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne as they start out.

No, let's keep Damien. Isn't he from another fucking Earth anyway?

Don't get me wrong, I like Drake and even liked Todd and actually voted for him to live, but for fucks sake, how can DC call this a reboot and keep all of Batman's 70 year history and say it's all crammed into like 5 years. When exactly did Bruce Wayne sleep in the last 5 years?
Batman isn't the worse in case of crammed continuity, since it is stated or implied that Bruce had been operating as the Batman longer than most anyone else. He was just more of an urban legend.

GL is where things get kind of fucked since we are cramming 4 earth lanterns, at least everything from Rebirth forward, and possibly even Hal's possession by parallax, destruction of the corps, and death into the 5 year time frame.

Batman has had to fit in 4 robins, and his "death" in a span, that I've heard stated as but can't remember if its said in continuity, of ten years.

Want to get into this weeks offerings but don't have the time now but, this was T&A week BIG TIME, Red Hood is now Deadpool, I think Starfire is a sociopath, and not sure but I think they are retconning John killing Mogo in which case FUCK THAT SHIT! I was led to believe that the fall out from War of the Green Lanterns was to carry over through the reboot, but if they decided to throw one major oh shit moment at us with serious implication for John Stewart, knowing that it'll be undone in a couple of weeks then that pisses me off.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by 18-Till-I-Die »

Actually, the compressed timeline is not that unusual. I mean really this is the way it's kind of always been, but the thing is no one ever said that. Like, for example, from what I understand (I'm almost sure Geoff Johns said this himself, but don't quote me) the entire Blackest Night story arc covered ONE roughly 24-hour period. Literally one night. The way it was explained to me was that (and again, pretty sure this is straight from the horse's mouth) a lot of this stuff is or was going on all at the same time. Like, unless otherwise noted, it was all happening simultaneously. Also like the Sinestro Corps War, the aftermath and Blackest Night itself was something like less than a week :shock: . No, seriously.

Now of course, that seems impossible, and at first I thought it was a kind of retarded dodge to make...but really, when you think of it, most of these stories seem to all pretty much happen over short periods of time. Realistically, how long could the whole Sinestro Corps War take? Read it over, like in trades, how long could that have been? How long could Hal and the others be trapped in Qward? How long could the battle around Earth be? How long could this have really been? I'm serious, I really looked over it and, realistically, it seems to be maybe a few days--like two or three, not even a week. It's not so much a "war" as it is a "battle in a war" really, on closer examination.

Like, I remember when this happened with Secret Invasion, when month after month they were stuck in the Savage Land and the war against the Skrulls is going on, if I may jump universes a bit. So, anyway, I realized after the fact that really what was all happening was happening over the course of maybe a few hours, a day maybe two at the most, but because the books come out MONTHLY or every few months or whatever it SEEMS like a really long time. And then the statement about Blackest Night made sense to me.

What I'm saying is, what seems like a lot in comics only seems like a lot because it happens monthly, read in trades or examined more deeply you're really looking at DAYS at most, not months passing, usually hours. That's not even counting comics that explicitly take place either at the same time or within moments of each other, as many Sinestro Corps War issues did (for example, the big final battle took a while, but basically was a matter of minutes). So yeah it could happen over five years. That doesn't make the earth crushing crash of stuff happening make any more sense (like, basically, using Geoff Johns' own chronology there has not been a 24-hour period in DC comics when a war was happening for the last year) but that being said it's not impossible, chorologically.

But don't believe me, really go back and read the Sinestro Corps War trades or the Secret Invasion books and see what I mean. It took months to publish but probably takes place over days or hours. Yes logically it's stupid, but from a chronological standpoint it DOES work, in as much as it could have happened chronologically.
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

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18-Till-I-Die wrote:Actually, the compressed timeline is not that unusual. I mean really this is the way it's kind of always been, but the thing is no one ever said that. Like, for example, from what I understand (I'm almost sure Geoff Johns said this himself, but don't quote me) the entire Blackest Night story arc covered ONE roughly 24-hour period. Literally one night. The way it was explained to me was that (and again, pretty sure this is straight from the horse's mouth) a lot of this stuff is or was going on all at the same time. Like, unless otherwise noted, it was all happening simultaneously. Also like the Sinestro Corps War, the aftermath and Blackest Night itself was something like less than a week :shock: . No, seriously.

Now of course, that seems impossible, and at first I thought it was a kind of retarded dodge to make...but really, when you think of it, most of these stories seem to all pretty much happen over short periods of time. Realistically, how long could the whole Sinestro Corps War take? Read it over, like in trades, how long could that have been? How long could Hal and the others be trapped in Qward? How long could the battle around Earth be? How long could this have really been? I'm serious, I really looked over it and, realistically, it seems to be maybe a few days--like two or three, not even a week. It's not so much a "war" as it is a "battle in a war" really, on closer examination.

Like, I remember when this happened with Secret Invasion, when month after month they were stuck in the Savage Land and the war against the Skrulls is going on, if I may jump universes a bit. So, anyway, I realized after the fact that really what was all happening was happening over the course of maybe a few hours, a day maybe two at the most, but because the books come out MONTHLY or every few months or whatever it SEEMS like a really long time. And then the statement about Blackest Night made sense to me.

What I'm saying is, what seems like a lot in comics only seems like a lot because it happens monthly, read in trades or examined more deeply you're really looking at DAYS at most, not months passing, usually hours. That's not even counting comics that explicitly take place either at the same time or within moments of each other, as many Sinestro Corps War issues did (for example, the big final battle took a while, but basically was a matter of minutes). So yeah it could happen over five years. That doesn't make the earth crushing crash of stuff happening make any more sense (like, basically, using Geoff Johns' own chronology there has not been a 24-hour period in DC comics when a war was happening for the last year) but that being said it's not impossible, chorologically.

But don't believe me, really go back and read the Sinestro Corps War trades or the Secret Invasion books and see what I mean. It took months to publish but probably takes place over days or hours. Yes logically it's stupid, but from a chronological standpoint it DOES work, in as much as it could have happened chronologically.
I don't have a probably with rebirth to New 52 being fit into five years, except for little squabble with a sector having twice as many lanterns as a sector normally has all from one kind of armpit planet being inducted that quickly. But it seems like most of the major points before that also having to be crammed into those five years(Hal's origin, parralax, destruction of the corps, death[hell everyone else's death seems to have been left in])

Anyways to the down and dirty of it. Have read all released of the fifty two so far, and feeling mostly positive on the most of the issues. Had planned on going over issue by issue as they came out, but don't feel like back tracking that much, so here is an those i feel opinionated enough saying something about:

Justice League: Eh too little really given to us to say, but I must say I liked super cocky Hal Jordan as opposed to his portrayal since Rebirth(where my interest in DC started). Same goes for Action Comics too.

Animal Man: Not too familiar with the character outside of a Blackest Night one off, didn't like the art, but liked the story and the hook at the end will keep my interest in run.

Batgirl: I am in the camp against healing Barbra Gordon and removing the character of Oracle. The issue wasn't too bad and Gail Simone might able to make lemonade here.

Batwing: Never got into the Batman Inc stuff, but had heard positive stuff about it, but I did enjoy this enough to give it a shot.

Green Arrow: In name only... this feels and looks more like Roy Harper than Ollie. Luckily JT Krull has already been shit canned off the book and hopefully DC editorial will be able to clean this up, but the damage might already be done.

Hawk and Dove: A lot of people started shitting on this book the second Liefeld got attached to it, like the man hadn't been consistently working for the last ten years. But its far from the shittiest book, but definitely not on the recommended list. At least he didn't cover them with pouches.

JLI: One of my favorites from the week it came out. Thought Generation Lost was one of the few good things to have Brightest Day slapped onto its name, and while this isn't in anyway connected to that, I liked a lot of the team that got carried over. Not super familiar with Booster Gold, but I liked him here. Guy Gardner is my favorite lantern, and the prospect of him being on the team will keep me interested. Yakov Smirinoff Iron Man was one of my favorites from Generation Lost and enjoying him here, as well as the chinese hero. Not sure if he has any history in DC, but I like that his name doesn't mesh well into english.

OMAC: This and Men of War did the least for me of the second week. Apparently it is a love letter to Jack Kirby, but alas I am rather ignorant of Kirby other than "hes the artist that created most of the marvel stuff I love with Stan Lee". Demon Knights was better written, but kind of left me feeling the same way.

Static Shock: Possibly my favorite of the 52. I grew up with the cartoon series and lump it in with Batman, Superman, Batman Beyond, and Justice League as some of the reason animation was awesome in the 90's. Never read the Milestone comics, nor his inclusion into the DCU as a Titan, but I absolutely loved this and the representation of is powers. Even if the science was horrible, it was a little more creative than science-y stuff normally gets. Not super excited about the ending, either its a shitty cliff hanger that will somehow be undone in the next issue or DC has learned nothing from the Rise of Arsenal.

Batman and Robin: Good, the Batman stuff was about the only thing I enjoyed from Flashpoint, especially that ending. Its nice to see that the one good thing from Flashpoint actually gets to affect character development in someone. Also liked the new dynamic between Damien and Bruce, and was glad that Dick as Batman was not removed from continuity.

Deathstroke Not familiar with Deathstroke, other than Deadpool started out ripping him off. That said, I thought this did a good job introducing him, as well as telling a story, and setting up for an arc. As the relaunch is a move to get new readers I think this was a good issue for that.

Legion Lost and Legion of Super Heros Since I brought up the point about the relaunch being about reintroducing DC characters to new readers lets get to these books. I know almost jack about the Legion other than they are from the future. Niether of these books did any good in introducing me to a massive dump of characters. Legion Lost especially so, which felt like a complete confusing mess. Legion of Super Heroes feels more like a continuation of Legion for those fans of the series, but atleast did a half ass job of telling me what a characters name was and what there powers were. Still over all, completely alienated and not interested in these titles. Just going to lump Grifter and Batwoman here too since i felt the same way, although though both were significantly better. And I know Batwoman was held off for like almost a year and not intended as a introduction to the character.

Green Lantern, Green Lantern Corp, and Red Lanterns: not much to say, just a continuation of before Flashpoint other than the possible rage inducing "LOL JK" on probably the most moving part of War of the Green Lanterns. Was very excited about Red Lanterns as they were my favorite of the Rainbow Corps(Rage being a very easy to sympathize with emotion for my Irish blood), although this issue didn't really do anything for me, I think that was because it was just basicly a clip show to introduce new characters. Can't say if it did a good job of it or not as I was intimately familiar with the lore to begin with, so will have to see where it goes.

Suicide Squad: Not a bad issue, like the characters, good intro, DC is getting the appropriate amount of shit over skinny Foxxy Love Amanda Waller.

Resurrection Man: Of the Vertigo stuff being merged with the DCU, I feel like this was my favorite of the bunch. Like description of his power, and how the world seemed different as he came back to life related to it. Also the set up for the story of the run got me interested in following along.

And now too this last weeks releases:

Batman, Nightwing, and Catwoman: All good issues, although I'm a little off put by the somewhat explicit stuff at the end of Catwoman. Not that I think there is anything wrong with them having a relationship, nor depictions of sex in comics... I just feel wierd seeing Batman doing it.

Blue Beetle: Blue Beetle was probably right up there with Static Shock in me being excited about a character getting a new solo run. Unfortunately unlike Static, this issue was a giant let down. All the characters seem to be about where they were when the last Blue Beetle run ended, except for Jamie. Would much rather this have been like Static where they introduce him as an already established hero, allow those of us who were fans of the old run to allow that to be semi-canonical, while introducing him to new readers. Instead we get a new origin, apparently Jamie is going to maintain a secret identity to his friends and family, a decision I absolutely HATE. By the way, did you know Jamie Reyes was MEXICAN! Hey, readers, MEXICAN. There is a lot of those right? Lets make sure every one knows by crow baring it in where ever we can. I have nothing against him being Mexican, I actually think its a plus, especially since we get to have a character in Texas. But where the original run made it a part of his character, it just feels so forced here its incredibly distracting.

Birds of Prey, Supergirl, Wonder Woman: Would you believe out of the three, Birds of Prey with Black Canary was the least exploitative of its female characters? Really niether of these were the worst(oh that's coming). But all were rather meh. Supergirl has ditched the skirt and has the power girl pussy wedgie bottoms, Wonder Woman jumps straight in with no explanation about her, but may be well enough known that wasn't needed. Out of the three, Wonder Woman is the only one that really has me interested.

Red Hood and the Outlaws: And here it is, the first real piece of dog shit of the New 52. If you are a Teen Titans or Starfire fan, I am so so sorry. If you at all follow DC this is the issue to read so that you will get all of the scathing jokes made for the next year. And really, the garbage they pulled with Starfire is really a big steaming pile of shit in the middle of a otherwise rather decent book. Red Hood kinda felt like they were ripping off Deadpool, but I liked Jason and Roy's interactions and probably would of ended up mostly positive on the issue otherwise.
//This Line Blank as of 7/15/07\\
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FaxModem1
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Re: So the DC reboot will soon be upon us

Post by FaxModem1 »

So, I have now read Green Arrow# 1 and 2. I liked 1, even if it wasn't the Oliver Queen we know and love, he seems more like an odd version of the one from Smallville. #2, not so much. Aside from the fact that there's a rant on the evil of video games, the issue doesn't really do much.
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