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Star Wars vs. Star Trek: The Book

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Sidewinder
PostPosted: 2011-05-13 03:45pm 

Sith Acolyte


Joined: 2005-05-18 10:23pm
Posts: 5107
Location: Feasting on those who fell in battle
I found this at a local bookstore, while looking up Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 novels. It's full of versus scenarios, e.g., the Millenium Falcon vs. the USS Voyager, Jean-Luc Picard vs. Obi-Wan Kenobi, Khan Noonien Singh vs. Darth Vader... It's amusing, but full of bullshit endings, such as having the Redshirts vs. Stormtroopers battle end in a draw (the author assumes that, because both sides have infinite numbers of expendable troops, the battle will drag on indefinitely), or having B'Elanna Torres kill Commander Cody with a phaser set on kill (the author assumes Cody's armor is no defense against the phaser). At least he doesn't adopt the lasers fallacy and assume Deep Space Nine will survive an encounter with the Death Star.

Anyone else seen the book?
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Anguirus
PostPosted: 2011-05-13 04:35pm 

Sith Marauder


Joined: 2005-09-11 02:36pm
Posts: 3702
Hmm, anyone know this Forbeck character? I imagine that if he did so much as Google his title, this site would have popped up.

B'Elanna Torres vs. Commander Cody? Who the fuck would even think of that matchup?
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Darth Hoth
PostPosted: 2011-05-13 04:56pm 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2008-02-15 10:36am
Posts: 2319
Does anyone expect rational analysis and quantification for something like this? Obviously it will just be the rule of cool and style over substance.

And, no, I have not read it. So if I am wrong, I apologise. But I do expect very little of such a book.
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Baffalo
PostPosted: 2011-05-14 12:31am 

Jedi Knight


Joined: 2009-04-18 10:53pm
Posts: 634
Location: Ruston, Louisiana
Darth Hoth wrote:
Does anyone expect rational analysis and quantification for something like this? Obviously it will just be the rule of cool and style over substance.

And, no, I have not read it. So if I am wrong, I apologise. But I do expect very little of such a book.


See, this is what happens when you let people loose with the literary mindset of a twig in soggy underbrush. You get something so nonsensical, JasonB could replace Shakespeare.
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Sidewinder
PostPosted: 2011-05-14 02:34am 

Sith Acolyte


Joined: 2005-05-18 10:23pm
Posts: 5107
Location: Feasting on those who fell in battle
Anguirus wrote:
B'Elanna Torres vs. Commander Cody? Who the fuck would even think of that matchup?

The author filed it under "Weapons- Pistols," because both characters seem to favor pistols. That doesn't even begin to deal with the absurdity of B'Elanna- who, unlike Worf, is NOT a warrior who fanatically spends every waking hour preparing for battle- defeating someone literally made for war, as Cody is.
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Norade
PostPosted: 2011-05-14 01:36pm 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2005-09-23 11:33pm
Posts: 2424
Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada
Yet more dreck designed to sell to those fans who'll still buy anything...
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The Romulan Republic
PostPosted: 2011-05-14 01:55pm 

Sith Marauder


Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am
Posts: 4069
Location: Victoria, Canada
Sidewinder wrote:
Anguirus wrote:
B'Elanna Torres vs. Commander Cody? Who the fuck would even think of that matchup?

The author filed it under "Weapons- Pistols," because both characters seem to favor pistols. That doesn't even begin to deal with the absurdity of B'Elanna- who, unlike Worf, is NOT a warrior who fanatically spends every waking hour preparing for battle- defeating someone literally made for war, as Cody is.


Torres was a Starfleet officer, and before that a Marquis. She is not some civilian.

Also, while Cody might be able to survive a phaser shot, I highly doubt he'd survive an overload.

Edit: Stormtroopers vs Redshirts would certainly not end in a draw though. Quality of the troops aside, I'm sure the Empire has more of them.
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Sidewinder
PostPosted: 2011-05-14 03:19pm 

Sith Acolyte


Joined: 2005-05-18 10:23pm
Posts: 5107
Location: Feasting on those who fell in battle
The Romulan Republic wrote:
Torres was a Starfleet officer, and before that a Marquis. She is not some civilian.

She's an engineer, NOT infantry, ranger, or Special Forces. She likely has MINIMAL combat training, or she'd otherwise waste time she needs to do her REAL JOB: keeping the ship's power plant and propulsion units in working condition.
Quote:
Also, while Cody might be able to survive a phaser shot, I highly doubt he'd survive an overload.

The book specifically states Torres won by shooting Cody, NOT by using an overloading phaser as an IED. It also claims Cody lost because he was a pacifist, or some bullshit like that.
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Anguirus
PostPosted: 2011-05-14 04:08pm 

Sith Marauder


Joined: 2005-09-11 02:36pm
Posts: 3702
If someone asked me to think of all the Star Trek lead cast who are known for using "pistols," B'Elanna would be about thirtieth on the list. o_0
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The Romulan Republic
PostPosted: 2011-05-14 06:30pm 

Sith Marauder


Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am
Posts: 4069
Location: Victoria, Canada
Sidewinder wrote:
She's an engineer, NOT infantry, ranger, or Special Forces. She likely has MINIMAL combat training, or she'd otherwise waste time she needs to do her REAL JOB: keeping the ship's power plant and propulsion units in working condition.


She's been in a lot of combat situations in canon.

Quote:
The book specifically states Torres won by shooting Cody, NOT by using an overloading phaser as an IED. It also claims Cody lost because he was a pacifist, or some bullshit like that.


Ah, I'm not sure where I got "overload" from. My apologies.

As for Cody being a pacifist, yeah, tell that to Obi-wan Kenobi.
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Luke Skywalker
PostPosted: 2011-06-29 04:49pm 

Padawan Learner


Joined: 2011-06-27 01:08am
Posts: 287
Does the author factor in calculations or even basic logic/military tactics, or is it a bullshit book lacking any thought out endings?
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Jim Raynor
PostPosted: 2011-06-29 08:48pm 

Sith Devotee


Joined: 2002-07-11 04:42am
Posts: 2922
Wait, Commander Cody the clone trooper who coldly obeys military orders? I'm astounded that anyone can call him a "pacifist." :lol:

Arguments based on science, military knowledge, math, and analysis of canon evidence is beyond the understanding and interest of most people not involved in the niche hobby that this site was originally founded on. This was likely written for the casual scifi fan, who just wants to read through fun "what if" scenarios that alternate between dumbed down but genuine arguments, and blatant acknowledgement of the subject's fiction ("because both sides have infinite numbers of expendable troops, the battle will drag on indefinitely").
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EnterpriseSovereign
PostPosted: 2011-07-13 09:09am 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2006-05-12 12:19pm
Posts: 1019
Location: High orbit
A lot like some fucknut I was debating on ground combat who wanted to take away the Imperial's vehicles in order to make it a "fair fight".

I read though the online preview and saw the first quiz and saw two glaring errors- first, alternate universe Kirk was born on one of the rescue shuttles, not on the Kelvin itself, and the first captain of the E-Nil was Robert April, not Pike if you go by TAS. Fuck, he can't even get the spelling right, it's "Pike", not "Pyke" :banghead:

It goes on to claim that all the previous Enterprises before D were destroyed, just how much shitting all over canon is this guy trying to do?
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Anguirus
PostPosted: 2011-07-13 11:46am 

Sith Marauder


Joined: 2005-09-11 02:36pm
Posts: 3702
Quote:
Wait, Commander Cody the clone trooper who coldly obeys military orders? I'm astounded that anyone can call him a "pacifist." :lol:


Perhaps he wrote "I'm so very sorry...please forgive me" on the shell that killed Obi-Wan's lizard.
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Purple
PostPosted: 2011-07-13 11:52am 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2010-04-20 08:31am
Posts: 2383
Location: In a purple cube orbiting this planet. Hijacking satellites for an internet connection.
Here is a chilling question. This thing mentions SW characters and becouse it has been published and sold that means it has to have some level of approval from Lucas. Even if that level of approval is simply a license that still technically makes it EU material.

Does that mean this book is cannon?
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Anguirus
PostPosted: 2011-07-13 02:51pm 

Sith Marauder


Joined: 2005-09-11 02:36pm
Posts: 3702
^ I don't think the conclusion follows from the premises. Many official SW products are non-canon, and many non-official SW products mention SW characters. In fact I don't think this book is a narrative work at all.
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Deathstalker
PostPosted: 2011-07-19 03:52pm 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2004-01-20 03:22am
Posts: 1502
The Deathstalker flipped through the book at Borders the other day. It's a comparison on how cool characters are, which franchise made more money, which has more name recognition and the culture differences like governments and religion. The author gives points to everything, and Spoiler alert! SW wins by point.
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FedRebel
PostPosted: 2011-09-05 10:24pm 

Jedi Knight


Joined: 2004-10-12 12:38am
Posts: 890
Purple wrote:
Here is a chilling question. This thing mentions SW characters and becouse it has been published and sold that means it has to have some level of approval from Lucas. Even if that level of approval is simply a license that still technically makes it EU material.

Does that mean this book is cannon?


N is Non-Canon. What-if stories (such as stories published under the Infinities label) and anything else directly and irreconcilably contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N is the only level that is not considered canon by Lucasfilm. Information cut from canon, deleted scenes, or from canceled Star Wars works falls into this category as well, unless another canonical work references it and it is declared c


At the most, that is what this book is.
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Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba
PostPosted: 2011-09-05 11:22pm 

Sith Devotee


Joined: 2004-10-15 08:57pm
Posts: 3317
Location: Regina Nihilists' Guild Party Headquarters
Purple wrote:
Here is a chilling question. This thing mentions SW characters and becouse it has been published and sold that means it has to have some level of approval from Lucas. Even if that level of approval is simply a license that still technically makes it EU material.

Does that mean this book is cannon?

How the fuck is that 'chilling'.
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The Romulan Republic
PostPosted: 2011-09-05 11:27pm 

Sith Marauder


Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am
Posts: 4069
Location: Victoria, Canada
Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:
Purple wrote:
Here is a chilling question. This thing mentions SW characters and becouse it has been published and sold that means it has to have some level of approval from Lucas. Even if that level of approval is simply a license that still technically makes it EU material.

Does that mean this book is cannon?

How the fuck is that 'chilling'.


It would be to people who actually take the vs debate really seriously.

Though I think I read some of this, and the scenarios could be so silly that their having any canon validity would be bad for that reason alone.

Personally I'd love a canon Star Trek vs Star Wars story, but only if it was well-written and classified as an alternate universe story rather than part of the main continuity.
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Stofsk
PostPosted: 2011-09-06 12:49am 

Emperor's Hand


Joined: 2003-11-10 01:36am
Posts: 12924
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Destructionator XIII wrote:
* note this doesn't actually exist. I just made it up for this post.

:(

Now I'm shattered.
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Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba
PostPosted: 2011-09-06 01:18am 

Sith Devotee


Joined: 2004-10-15 08:57pm
Posts: 3317
Location: Regina Nihilists' Guild Party Headquarters
Destructionator giveth, and Destructionator taketh away.
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Stofsk
PostPosted: 2011-09-06 02:38am 

Emperor's Hand


Joined: 2003-11-10 01:36am
Posts: 12924
Location: Melbourne, Australia


PS That channel is a fucking gold mine for hilarious TNG and Trek related re-edits/spoofs. :D
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Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba
PostPosted: 2011-09-06 02:59am 

Sith Devotee


Joined: 2004-10-15 08:57pm
Posts: 3317
Location: Regina Nihilists' Guild Party Headquarters
The Romulan Republic wrote:
Though I think I read some of this, and the scenarios could be so silly that their having any canon validity would be bad for that reason alone.

Wait, wait, are there actual functioning grown adults somewhere who care about 'canon'.
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Darth Tedious
PostPosted: 2011-09-06 04:17am 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2011-01-16 09:48pm
Posts: 1070
Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:
Destructionator giveth, and Destructionator taketh away.

Yeah, but...
Quote:
"Fire at will!" Picard wasn't playing games.

Worf pulled out his phaser and shot Riker.

"God dammit, Worf!"

It was all worth it for that bit! :mrgreen:
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