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 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-11-20 01:10pm 

Then go ahead and reflect that in your queue.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Thread

Posted: 2009-11-20 04:19pm 

Any answer on this yet, Steve?

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-11-20 04:52pm 

Thought I did? 5%.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-11-24 10:15am 

Updated again with actual force maintenance costs and fort locations, and stripped out most of the unnecessary items.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-11-24 12:48pm 

Baerne, Siege, Raj, Coyote, I'm seeing a distinct lack of allocation of IBPs to military maintenance. Please fix this?

Norade, what's with the "points in a year" thing? Didn't I explain already that IBPs are not a currency and you wouldn't get "2100 a year"? You have 525 IBPs. That means the total of your national projects cannot exceed that amount or you get delays to things.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-11-24 02:21pm 

Okay, I feel like this now?:



I thought once the units were built we didn't need to pay maintenance costs on them anymore?

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-11-24 02:33pm 

That's up in limbo.

BTW, for that pic? I am so going to give you a negative RP event....

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-11-24 02:39pm 

Not a South Park fan I take it? If we stick with maintenance points, they need to be clearly displayed in the unit costs, then.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-11-24 03:53pm 

I recognize the animation style as South Park, but that image is... ugggggh.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-11-26 06:09pm 

Frankly I'm going to wait until its 100% decided that we need to pay maintenance costs before I change around my production plan as it is a major pain in the ass and many people don't have anything up yet at all.

My position is I'm against having to pay maintenance costs out of IBP's as I've seen this score as an abstraction of one's military procurement budget who's main purpose was simply so people don't pull 15 battleships out of thin air. It seems to be morphing into a generalized government budget (mainly through the funding of transit projects) which may not be a good thing. I don't want to eventually have to pull my education and pensions budget out of my IBP's for instance.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-11-26 06:31pm 

You wouldn't have to.

IBPs are meant to reflect the capacity of your nation's industries to support various government orders. That's why they increase in wartime, to reflect direct government control of sections of the Economy.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-11-26 11:31pm 

However to one of his points it might be worth stating that while for startup its probably understandable that folks are slowly adding to their Queues (I just really finalized mine though I may need to tweak a half dozen points) there needs to be some sort of hard cut line when you can no longer "back-date" orders or otherwise claim production started previously. In other words I'd say we should all grant each other leeway in getting data up but probably by time we get to Q3 1925 I think it needs to be a hard cut for posting queues.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-12-01 11:31pm 

Cancelled the economic improvements - I know its a bit late to do so, so I thought I'd penalize myself for it by only freeing up 25 of the 50 expended points and have the rest as pure wasted funds and manhours, unless anyone objects particularly strongly.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-12-02 12:00am 

That's not how it works. You cancel the project and the IBPs are freed up. If anything, give yourself a quarter-long penalty of 25% to reflect that the wasted expenditures have reduced what your government can order from the national industrial base for the short-term.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-12-02 08:07am 

Oh for fuck's sake, when did we decide on this? I'll assign a random number of points from my industrial investments, because I'm sure as hell not going to figure out how many tons of ship I own.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-12-02 12:10pm 

Ignore it. Did you miss the part where I said maintenance costs were out for now?

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-12-02 12:11pm 

Siege, mainenance costs are scrapped for now (or at least Steve told me so).

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-12-02 12:16pm 

Is that the final answer?

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-12-02 12:21pm 

....

Oh for crying out loud.. could the rule page be updated please?

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-12-02 01:07pm 

No, I just went off my rocker because I thought it'd be good fun. Of course I missed it. Now could we please stop changing, modifying or tweaking the rules every time the wind changes direction?

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-12-02 01:10pm 

Bah, this is the first game where we're trying to use such systems to solve little problems from the last game like "OMG YOU SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO BUILD THAT!". Naturally there will be... hiccups as the rules are played with for the first time and require... fine-tuning.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-12-02 01:15pm 

If "fine-tuning" is what you're doing perhaps you should be more hesitant to demand players comply with your rules until they're actually fine-tuned and ready for implementation.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-12-02 01:18pm 

And if nobody's following the rules how can we determine what rules need alteration to work better?

As it is I think we should have maintenance costs, but as I didn't think of them until post-game start a number of players had already set up long, elaborate multi-year construction plans that the maintenance costs would have completely ruined. So for now we have none, unless it becomes clearly necessary to regular out of control troop creation.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-12-02 01:35pm 

If nobody is following the rules, and nobody is clamouring for them, then shouldn't that send a pretty clear message about people's lack of a desire for additional rules? For the love of God, what is it about this game that instils this obsessive need to quantify and regulate everything? Barring one or two hiccups the previous game did exceedingly well for months with the absolute barest minimum of rules and no moderation at all, and yet here we are trying to quantify everything from slipway tonnage down to troop maintenance costs, the number of IBPs per kilometer of railway, the number of logistics personnel per division... Who came up with the daft idea that this was a good plan? Hell, you yourself pointed out that it's insanity to pursue quite a number of these. Why do you draw a line at literacy rates but not at maintenance costs? Is it really so important to regulate this before anyone goes on the out of control troop creation binge you speak of? You're the moderator, why not smack it down when it comes to pass, rather than force people to unnecessarily jump through hoops for weeks or months before the moment of mod-hammering arrives?

Anyway I have to run and be off, but I think you get my point (after all it's not like I haven't said anything about this before): In my opinion less is more, and whilst I'm not inherently opposed to some regulation I continue to believe we're simply overdoing the rule creation thing here.

 Post subject: Re: SDN World 3 Construction Queue Discussion

Posted: 2009-12-02 01:40pm 

Yes, I do, but it also puts less stress on me and the other mods if someone comes to us, asks "is this reasonable", and we can point him to the rules and say "your answer is there". So some quantification in the ruleset is desirable, just not an obsessive amount.

And seriously, nobody except Coyote considered "kilometers of railway per IBP". I explicitly rejected that one too because I knew this would be the response.