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 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 07:17am 

Yes, and whatever happens to Stevens. Chambliss might go if the rumours of 2 million georgian ballots are true. Even a few hundred thousand absentee and early votes could unseat him if democratic leaning.

Notice the media is already saying "Watch for when the Democrats overreach" "The Democrats don't have a mandate to enforce liberal agenda" etc. Already they're at it.

What's worse is they're right. If it weren't for the economy, the country would easily vote bush back in. Look at California. This country hasn't gotten any less polarised.

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 07:32am 

I still can't believe Alaska is going to re-elect a convicted felon. How the hell can any state be that stupid?

@ Ms. doom duck, where are you getting the info about Oregon?

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 07:37am 

It's the same as how 51% voted to ban gay marriage. Or 48% voted for McCain.

Check the detailed county info- There's about the same number of senate as president votes, but senate is 100% and president is 32% in portland. That means that there was a mistake by AP or CNN or someone on the Senate. Oregon's Democratic candidate's office has confirmed it on DailyKos.

Florida has the most retarded one though. An expected-to-pass proposition that removed an archaic and unused section of the constitution that gave the Legislature the power to ban non-whites from buying houses as they see fit was rejected.

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 07:48am 

My congratulations for keeping your head level and retaining your sense of proportions . . .

Are you serious about even half of this?

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 07:52am 

I know you've only been on the board for less than a year, but I'm surprised you haven't picked up on Marina's, uh, unique idiom yet.

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 08:25am 

I tend to stay out of News & Politics, except on certain topics, so I miss most of her posts. Apart from politics, she appears rather sane and competent in what I see of DrakaFic and other stuff.

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 08:32am 

Bachman won? What the christ?

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 08:36am 

I didn't bother staying up last night to watch for several reasons not the least of which is that I wasn't feeling well and needed the sleep. Woke up this morning to a profound sense of relief and a little anxiety. On the one hand I'm relieved that we can now say President Obama without reservation ( ) but on the other I now have to listen to everyone bitch about how we're all ruined.


Her idiom, as Lonestar put it, aside, keep in mind that Marina is upset right now and lashing out. Not unjustifiably I might add.

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 08:53am 

Congrats to the US going back to a human president and leaving the ape behind you.

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 08:59am 

It is probably me not being American, but I cannot see what changed just recently; everyone knew well before that homosexual marriages were not popular with large quarters. I never expected that bill to fail, and from what little I cared to read about it, neither did the pollsters. In truth, I was rather surprised that the California Court could rule as it did in the first place.

And if you are being "oppressed" by not being allowed full marriage (I am not entirely certain that is the word I would use, but that is not essential to this discussion, and I have no desire to hijack the thread), I still think calling for the murder of political opponents and forced adoption of their children is offensively excessive, especially when the courts will most likely shoot this down anyway in spite of the vote. I do know that this is not a "Miss Manners" board, as Wong likes to stress, so hyperbole and insults are naturally more common here even than elsewhere on the Interweb, but from her past statements, it is hard to know when Miss O'Leary is serious and when she is producing jokes, hyperbole or otherwise intending not to be taken at face value.

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 09:08am 

She is sane and competent in most areas, but right now she is pissed as hell and has every reason to be.

All I can say in regards to Prop 8 in California is that we have to keep fighting the good fight. I do believe that one day being homosexual will be seen as no more important than being left-handed, it's just not going to be as soon as we'd like. These - well, not "Jim Crow" but perhaps "Jim Pink" - these laws will not endure over time. Meanwhile, however, life will be difficult and unpleasant for those targeted by them.

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 09:23am 

I would not go that far and compare them with actual racist legislation; it is not as if homosexuals are required to carry passports or are excluded from first-class trains. On the other hand, if their rights are different, I suppose they are discriminated against. I was never all that involved in the issue.

(For a fun anecdote, One guy I debated elsewhere used to joke when the issue came up that they have exactly the same rights to marriage as everyone else - they just choose not to take advantage of them . . . He was generally dinosaurian and based his worldview on American military supremacy and Christian fundamentalism; I would love to see him around here.)

As for the comparison with left-handedness - I do not. It is of so much greater importance to daily life, so much more visible, and so much more culturally controversial that I cannot see any such thing in the next millennium or closer. I do believe it will be accepted eventually, but not as perfectly normal, and there will always be groups that are of another opinion.

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 09:42am 

Just got home from work, but I saw the coverage on CNN. Congratulations to President-elect Barack Obama!

Just one minor sour note, we were all watching when the announcement came in that Obama won, I found out that some of the people in the office were closet racists.....

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 09:46am 

Err... Minor little nitpick here, Duchess; Whether or not the state recognizes their marriage is, frankly, irrelevant to whether or not their actually married. So, no, they aren't fornicating in sin. Sorry.

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 09:59am 

They might not be fornicating in sin, but a good case can be made for the state recognition of marriage actually being a LOT more important that that of church recognition.

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 10:04am 

In what sense?

With respect to state-provided marriage benefits, sure...

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 10:07am 

This is what is particularly striking to me. The black community, at large, seems to sway pretty hard against gays in general. I can imagine few things more hypocritical than a black man saying a homosexual man should not be allowed equal civil rights protections. The hypocrisy burns. I realize that the black community is a community with strong ties to the church, but this is an issue they should be intimately familiar with and logic suggests that that community should be the first to rally to the GLBT cause. I have NEVER understood the stance they take on this issue. (I remember how quiet the largely black rally was during the primaries when Obama was suggesting equal rights for homosexuals, for one)

While I'm not throwing in with threats of violence or stealing children away from families (this would not help in any way), I share Dutchess' anger at this. I was, quite frankly, surprised that Prop 8 held. I was not surprised by Florida, though the fact that the language goes against heterosexual civil unions and was still passed does slightly surprise. I expected better of California, and I hate to see the progress made just washed away. Last night was devastating for the GLBT community, and I think anger, disgust, and frustration are more than apt emotions at this point.

Looking at the larger picture, at this point I can only hope that a strong Dem congress and a strong liberal (for America) president can make changes that would help to further the cause. For example, what is the possibility that Obama might get rid of DADT? Such a measure would require some major political capital if we were to see him reelected in 4 years, but if he does win an 8 year term (WAYYYY too early for this speculative shit, but at this point what choice you have but to think long term here for some ray of hope?) could he not then overturn DADT? I think this would go a long way to helping matters, as one of the first places desegregation started was in the military. I don't see eliminating all marriage due to the language as being anywhere near a viable option, even if that's what the language says, and I'm not 100% that the "activist judges" could overturn Prop 8. Wouldn't that be the second time that the court would rule against what the majority believed? And so, I hope an Obama presidency can make some inroads into this issue. But he can only do it if he has the political capital to do so, which means fixing the economy (unlikely in such a short period of time), getting out of Iraq, having no terrorist attacks on his watch hit the US, and a whole other load of shit that just seems pretty damned daunting. I certainly don't see gay rights as being a top priority anytime soon for him.

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 10:09am 

Exactly. With respect to actual tangible real world things. Rather than made up things.

Of course, the kind of people who think the world will stop turning if man fucks man are also the kind of people who prefer the made up things, and barely realise that the real things are real at all, so this line of argument is not going to work on them.

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 10:31am 

I would say, that since Prop 8 passed, it would show that most of the progress was illusory to begin with...

Suppose it's more proof of Wong's "Right & Extreme Right" bit though...

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 10:44am 

There's always civil disobedience for dealing with Prop. 8. That bullshit won't last long.

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 10:44am 

You know, one thing that is a bit nice (for lack of a better word) is that even though the prop will pass, it will do so with nearly 10% less than the similar prop 22 did back in 2000. I think there is progress, it's just painfully slow.

And in general (need to vent rising) may I go on record as saying how fucking dirty and underhanded religious asshats are? The campaign was largely waged on fearmongering. "Gayz will take your tax exemption status away, will force you to marry them, and teach your children to be gay too!!11" And people bought it. The Mormon church in particular has drawn my ire.

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 10:56am 

So "marriages" that are not recognised by the state are actually marriages?
Recently, they allowed church weddings here to take place prior to (or even without) the registration at a register office. But if you not register that "marriage", it is not legally one (so no benefits, privileges, duties,...)

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 11:00am 

SAd part is, I know half of my family voted in favor of both, from the aunt I mentioned earlier to my jackass of a conservative-born-again father (He's transformed into a staunch Republican in the 10 years since he walked out on us; oh the irony....)

As for Prop 8 looking like it'll pass, damm...

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 11:01am 

It's the Republikan Way. Be sure to remind the ones in your life about that little fact the next time they start bleating about the "rule of law".

 Post subject: Re: US Election 2008 Results Thread

Posted: 2008-11-05 11:09am 

Some random conservative reactions:

http://tombsofkobol.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3638
http://www.nicedoggie.net/2008/?p=2903
http://www.nicedoggie.net/2008/?p=2901
http://tombsofkobol.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3646
http://tombsofkobol.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3639