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Quote of the Week: "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." - Will Durant, American historian (1885-1981)

US Election 2008 Results Thread

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President McCain 2008/President Obama 2008?
Poll ended at 2008-11-05 02:47pm
President Barack Obama(D)/Vice President Joe Biden(D) 88%  88%  [ 228 ]
Senator John McCain(R)/Vice President Sarah Palin(R) 7%  7%  [ 17 ]
I plan to vote/throw my vote away for a third party candidate 6%  6%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 260
Author Message

Duckie
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 07:17am 

Sith Marauder


Joined: 2003-08-28 08:16pm
Posts: 3980
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
So that means Chambliss is the main point of contention, and a recount with Franken?


Yes, and whatever happens to Stevens. Chambliss might go if the rumours of 2 million georgian ballots are true. Even a few hundred thousand absentee and early votes could unseat him if democratic leaning.

Notice the media is already saying "Watch for when the Democrats overreach" "The Democrats don't have a mandate to enforce liberal agenda" etc. Already they're at it.

What's worse is they're right. If it weren't for the economy, the country would easily vote bush back in. Look at California. This country hasn't gotten any less polarised.
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Dominus Atheos
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 07:32am 

Sith Devotee


Joined: 2005-09-15 09:41pm
Posts: 2920
Location: Portland, Oregon
I still can't believe Alaska is going to re-elect a convicted felon. How the hell can any state be that stupid?

@ Ms. doom duck, where are you getting the info about Oregon?
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Duckie
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 07:37am 

Sith Marauder


Joined: 2003-08-28 08:16pm
Posts: 3980
Dominus Atheos wrote:
I still can't believe Alaska is going to re-elect a convicted felon. How the hell can any state be that stupid?

@ Ms. doom duck, where are you getting the info about Oregon?


It's the same as how 51% voted to ban gay marriage. Or 48% voted for McCain.

Check the detailed county info- There's about the same number of senate as president votes, but senate is 100% and president is 32% in portland. That means that there was a mistake by AP or CNN or someone on the Senate. Oregon's Democratic candidate's office has confirmed it on DailyKos.

Florida has the most retarded one though. An expected-to-pass proposition that removed an archaic and unused section of the constitution that gave the Legislature the power to ban non-whites from buying houses as they see fit was rejected.
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Darth Hoth
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 07:48am 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2008-02-15 10:36am
Posts: 2319
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
Mostly wistful dreaming of seeing every married couple that voted for Prop 8 have their relationship end in a ruinous, painful divorce, while all of their kids are taught to be atheists who respect gay people in school, and are raised to hate their own parents as backwards, useless bigots.

This is pretty mild by the standards of what I feel right now. Is it irrational and immoral? Certainly, but I'm being oppressed and it hurts, bad. And "it" in this case that I'm admitting to is the impulse to throw every one of those worthless fuckers into a gulag.

For that matter, it does show the biggest problem with allowing Hispanic immigration. Most of them are rabid Catholics, and we don't need more of those if America is ever going to become a genuinely equal nation.


My congratulations for keeping your head level and retaining your sense of proportions . . . :roll:

Are you serious about even half of this?
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Lonestar
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 07:52am 

Keeper of the Schwartz


Joined: 2003-02-13 04:21pm
Posts: 12594
Location: The third best place to live in the country.
Darth Hoth wrote:

My congratulations for keeping your head level and retaining your sense of proportions . . . :roll:

Are you serious about even half of this?


I know you've only been on the board for less than a year, but I'm surprised you haven't picked up on Marina's, uh, unique idiom yet.
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Darth Hoth
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 08:25am 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2008-02-15 10:36am
Posts: 2319
Lonestar wrote:
Darth Hoth wrote:

My congratulations for keeping your head level and retaining your sense of proportions . . . :roll:

Are you serious about even half of this?


I know you've only been on the board for less than a year, but I'm surprised you haven't picked up on Marina's, uh, unique idiom yet.


I tend to stay out of News & Politics, except on certain topics, so I miss most of her posts. Apart from politics, she appears rather sane and competent in what I see of DrakaFic and other stuff.
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Ender
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 08:32am 

Emperor's Hand


Joined: 2002-07-30 11:12pm
Posts: 11165
Location: Illinois
Bachman won? What the christ?
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The Spartan
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 08:36am 

Sith Marauder


Joined: 2005-03-12 06:56pm
Posts: 4406
Location: Houston
I didn't bother staying up last night to watch for several reasons not the least of which is that I wasn't feeling well and needed the sleep. Woke up this morning to a profound sense of relief and a little anxiety. On the one hand I'm relieved that we can now say President Obama without reservation ( :D ) but on the other I now have to listen to everyone bitch about how we're all ruined. :roll:

Darth Hoth wrote:
I tend to stay out of News & Politics, except on certain topics, so I miss most of her posts. Apart from politics, she appears rather sane and competent in what I see of DrakaFic and other stuff.

Her idiom, as Lonestar put it, aside, keep in mind that Marina is upset right now and lashing out. Not unjustifiably I might add.
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salm
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 08:53am 

Rabid Monkey


Joined: 2002-09-09 08:25pm
Posts: 9301
Congrats to the US going back to a human president and leaving the ape behind you.
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Darth Hoth
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 08:59am 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2008-02-15 10:36am
Posts: 2319
The Spartan wrote:
Darth Hoth wrote:
I tend to stay out of News & Politics, except on certain topics, so I miss most of her posts. Apart from politics, she appears rather sane and competent in what I see of DrakaFic and other stuff.

Her idiom, as Lonestar put it, aside, keep in mind that Marina is upset right now and lashing out. Not unjustifiably I might add.


It is probably me not being American, but I cannot see what changed just recently; everyone knew well before that homosexual marriages were not popular with large quarters. I never expected that bill to fail, and from what little I cared to read about it, neither did the pollsters. In truth, I was rather surprised that the California Court could rule as it did in the first place.

And if you are being "oppressed" by not being allowed full marriage (I am not entirely certain that is the word I would use, but that is not essential to this discussion, and I have no desire to hijack the thread), I still think calling for the murder of political opponents and forced adoption of their children is offensively excessive, especially when the courts will most likely shoot this down anyway in spite of the vote. I do know that this is not a "Miss Manners" board, as Wong likes to stress, so hyperbole and insults are naturally more common here even than elsewhere on the Interweb, but from her past statements, it is hard to know when Miss O'Leary is serious and when she is producing jokes, hyperbole or otherwise intending not to be taken at face value.
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Broomstick
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 09:08am 

Emperor's Hand


Joined: 2004-01-02 08:04pm
Posts: 21262
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Darth Hoth wrote:
Lonestar wrote:
Darth Hoth wrote:
My congratulations for keeping your head level and retaining your sense of proportions . . . :roll:

Are you serious about even half of this?

I know you've only been on the board for less than a year, but I'm surprised you haven't picked up on Marina's, uh, unique idiom yet.

I tend to stay out of News & Politics, except on certain topics, so I miss most of her posts. Apart from politics, she appears rather sane and competent in what I see of DrakaFic and other stuff.

She is sane and competent in most areas, but right now she is pissed as hell and has every reason to be.

All I can say in regards to Prop 8 in California is that we have to keep fighting the good fight. I do believe that one day being homosexual will be seen as no more important than being left-handed, it's just not going to be as soon as we'd like. These - well, not "Jim Crow" but perhaps "Jim Pink" - these laws will not endure over time. Meanwhile, however, life will be difficult and unpleasant for those targeted by them.
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Darth Hoth
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 09:23am 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2008-02-15 10:36am
Posts: 2319
Broomstick wrote:
All I can say in regards to Prop 8 in California is that we have to keep fighting the good fight. I do believe that one day being homosexual will be seen as no more important than being left-handed, it's just not going to be as soon as we'd like. These - well, not "Jim Crow" but perhaps "Jim Pink" - these laws will not endure over time. Meanwhile, however, life will be difficult and unpleasant for those targeted by them.


I would not go that far and compare them with actual racist legislation; it is not as if homosexuals are required to carry passports or are excluded from first-class trains. On the other hand, if their rights are different, I suppose they are discriminated against. I was never all that involved in the issue.

(For a fun anecdote, One guy I debated elsewhere used to joke when the issue came up that they have exactly the same rights to marriage as everyone else - they just choose not to take advantage of them . . . He was generally dinosaurian and based his worldview on American military supremacy and Christian fundamentalism; I would love to see him around here.:wink:)

As for the comparison with left-handedness - I do not. It is of so much greater importance to daily life, so much more visible, and so much more culturally controversial that I cannot see any such thing in the next millennium or closer. I do believe it will be accepted eventually, but not as perfectly normal, and there will always be groups that are of another opinion.
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generator_g1
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 09:42am 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2003-01-19 11:17pm
Posts: 1178
Location: Halfway between the gutter and the stars....
Just got home from work, but I saw the coverage on CNN. Congratulations to President-elect Barack Obama!

Just one minor sour note, we were all watching when the announcement came in that Obama won, I found out that some of the people in the office were closet racists..... :roll:
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Ryan Thunder
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 09:46am 

Village Idiot


Joined: 2007-09-16 07:53pm
Posts: 4139
Location: Canada
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
The fuckers claimed that gay marriage would lead to the end of straight marriage. Well, the California constitution's language means we have them by the balls, and it's time to show them that it's actually the exact opposite. Banning gay marriage will lead to the end of straight marriage, instead. And the sooner all 30 million Californians are fornicating in sin, the better.


Err... Minor little nitpick here, Duchess; Whether or not the state recognizes their marriage is, frankly, irrelevant to whether or not their actually married. So, no, they aren't fornicating in sin. Sorry. :roll:
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Atlan
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 09:59am 

Jedi Knight


Joined: 2002-11-30 10:39pm
Posts: 593
Ryan Thunder wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
The fuckers claimed that gay marriage would lead to the end of straight marriage. Well, the California constitution's language means we have them by the balls, and it's time to show them that it's actually the exact opposite. Banning gay marriage will lead to the end of straight marriage, instead. And the sooner all 30 million Californians are fornicating in sin, the better.


Err... Minor little nitpick here, Duchess; Whether or not the state recognizes their marriage is, frankly, irrelevant to whether or not their actually married. So, no, they aren't fornicating in sin. Sorry. :roll:

They might not be fornicating in sin, but a good case can be made for the state recognition of marriage actually being a LOT more important that that of church recognition.
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Ryan Thunder
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 10:04am 

Village Idiot


Joined: 2007-09-16 07:53pm
Posts: 4139
Location: Canada
Atlan wrote:
They might not be fornicating in sin, but a good case can be made for the state recognition of marriage actually being a LOT more important that that of church recognition.


In what sense?

With respect to state-provided marriage benefits, sure... :?
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CaptJodan
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 10:07am 

Jedi Council Member


Joined: 2003-05-27 09:57pm
Posts: 2216
Location: Orlando, Florida
Robert Treder wrote:
And blacks will have voted as much for it as latinos, if not more so ... should we "disallow" black immigration too?


This is what is particularly striking to me. The black community, at large, seems to sway pretty hard against gays in general. I can imagine few things more hypocritical than a black man saying a homosexual man should not be allowed equal civil rights protections. The hypocrisy burns. I realize that the black community is a community with strong ties to the church, but this is an issue they should be intimately familiar with and logic suggests that that community should be the first to rally to the GLBT cause. I have NEVER understood the stance they take on this issue. (I remember how quiet the largely black rally was during the primaries when Obama was suggesting equal rights for homosexuals, for one)

While I'm not throwing in with threats of violence or stealing children away from families (this would not help in any way), I share Dutchess' anger at this. I was, quite frankly, surprised that Prop 8 held. I was not surprised by Florida, though the fact that the language goes against heterosexual civil unions and was still passed does slightly surprise. I expected better of California, and I hate to see the progress made just washed away. Last night was devastating for the GLBT community, and I think anger, disgust, and frustration are more than apt emotions at this point.

Looking at the larger picture, at this point I can only hope that a strong Dem congress and a strong liberal (for America) president can make changes that would help to further the cause. For example, what is the possibility that Obama might get rid of DADT? Such a measure would require some major political capital if we were to see him reelected in 4 years, but if he does win an 8 year term (WAYYYY too early for this speculative shit, but at this point what choice you have but to think long term here for some ray of hope?) could he not then overturn DADT? I think this would go a long way to helping matters, as one of the first places desegregation started was in the military. I don't see eliminating all marriage due to the language as being anywhere near a viable option, even if that's what the language says, and I'm not 100% that the "activist judges" could overturn Prop 8. Wouldn't that be the second time that the court would rule against what the majority believed? And so, I hope an Obama presidency can make some inroads into this issue. But he can only do it if he has the political capital to do so, which means fixing the economy (unlikely in such a short period of time), getting out of Iraq, having no terrorist attacks on his watch hit the US, and a whole other load of shit that just seems pretty damned daunting. I certainly don't see gay rights as being a top priority anytime soon for him.
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Vendetta
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 10:09am 

Emperor's Hand


Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Posts: 9383
Location: Sheffield, UK
Ryan Thunder wrote:
Atlan wrote:
They might not be fornicating in sin, but a good case can be made for the state recognition of marriage actually being a LOT more important that that of church recognition.


In what sense?

With respect to state-provided marriage benefits, sure... :?


Exactly. With respect to actual tangible real world things. Rather than made up things.

Of course, the kind of people who think the world will stop turning if man fucks man are also the kind of people who prefer the made up things, and barely realise that the real things are real at all, so this line of argument is not going to work on them.
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Andrew_Fireborn
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 10:31am 

Jedi Knight


Joined: 2007-02-12 07:50am
Posts: 797
CaptJodan wrote:
While I'm not throwing in with threats of violence or stealing children away from families (this would not help in any way), I share Dutchess' anger at this. I was, quite frankly, surprised that Prop 8 held. I was not surprised by Florida, though the fact that the language goes against heterosexual civil unions and was still passed does slightly surprise. I expected better of California, and I hate to see the progress made just washed away. Last night was devastating for the GLBT community, and I think anger, disgust, and frustration are more than apt emotions at this point.
I would say, that since Prop 8 passed, it would show that most of the progress was illusory to begin with...

Suppose it's more proof of Wong's "Right & Extreme Right" bit though...
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Elfdart
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 10:44am 

The Anti-Shep


Joined: 2004-04-28 11:32pm
Posts: 9549
Location: "Style is knowing who you are, what you want to say and not giving a damn. ''
There's always civil disobedience for dealing with Prop. 8. That bullshit won't last long.
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apocolypse
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 10:44am 

Jedi Knight


Joined: 2002-12-06 01:24pm
Posts: 934
Location: The Pillar of Autumn
Andrew_Fireborn wrote:
CaptJodan wrote:
While I'm not throwing in with threats of violence or stealing children away from families (this would not help in any way), I share Dutchess' anger at this. I was, quite frankly, surprised that Prop 8 held. I was not surprised by Florida, though the fact that the language goes against heterosexual civil unions and was still passed does slightly surprise. I expected better of California, and I hate to see the progress made just washed away. Last night was devastating for the GLBT community, and I think anger, disgust, and frustration are more than apt emotions at this point.
I would say, that since Prop 8 passed, it would show that most of the progress was illusory to begin with...

Suppose it's more proof of Wong's "Right & Extreme Right" bit though...


You know, one thing that is a bit nice (for lack of a better word) is that even though the prop will pass, it will do so with nearly 10% less than the similar prop 22 did back in 2000. I think there is progress, it's just painfully slow.

And in general (need to vent rising) may I go on record as saying how fucking dirty and underhanded religious asshats are? The campaign was largely waged on fearmongering. "Gayz will take your tax exemption status away, will force you to marry them, and teach your children to be gay too!!11" And people bought it. The Mormon church in particular has drawn my ire.
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Dahak
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 10:56am 

Emperor's Hand


Joined: 2002-10-29 01:08pm
Posts: 7292
Location: Admiralty House, Landing, Manticore
Ryan Thunder wrote:
Atlan wrote:
They might not be fornicating in sin, but a good case can be made for the state recognition of marriage actually being a LOT more important that that of church recognition.


In what sense?

With respect to state-provided marriage benefits, sure... :?

So "marriages" that are not recognised by the state are actually marriages?
Recently, they allowed church weddings here to take place prior to (or even without) the registration at a register office. But if you not register that "marriage", it is not legally one (so no benefits, privileges, duties,...)
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JME2
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 11:00am 

Emperor's Hand


Joined: 2003-02-02 05:04pm
Posts: 12258
MRDOD wrote:
Dominus Atheos wrote:
I still can't believe Alaska is going to re-elect a convicted felon. How the hell can any state be that stupid?

@ Ms. doom duck, where are you getting the info about Oregon?


It's the same as how 51% voted to ban gay marriage. Or 48% voted for McCain


SAd part is, I know half of my family voted in favor of both, from the aunt I mentioned earlier to my jackass of a conservative-born-again father (He's transformed into a staunch Republican in the 10 years since he walked out on us; oh the irony....)

As for Prop 8 looking like it'll pass, damm...
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Patrick Degan
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 11:01am 

Emperor's Hand


Joined: 2002-07-15 08:06am
Posts: 14847
Location: Orleanian in exile
Dominus Atheos wrote:
I still can't believe Alaska is going to re-elect a convicted felon. How the hell can any state be that stupid?


It's the Republikan Way. Be sure to remind the ones in your life about that little fact the next time they start bleating about the "rule of law".
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Bug-Eyed Earl
PostPosted: 2008-11-05 11:09am 

Jedi Master


Joined: 2002-09-22 03:26am
Posts: 1463
Location: USA
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