So uhm, just how fast ARE hyperdrives?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-07-29 06:45pm

I know that they're hella fast but what I'm interested in is what the numbers mean:

x0.5 = ? LYH?
x1 = ? LYH?

and so on...

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-07-29 06:59pm

Last time I checked, we don't know.

All that's really known is that the smaller the multiplier class, the faster it is.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-07-29 07:04pm

No real relation between the stupid 'hyperdive ratings' and actual speeds has ever been established to my knowledge.
The only instance I know of giving an actual speed for a hyperdrive rating is TTT where .4 is not quite 28,000c, 100ly were considered 'an extra day of travel, tops, at Star Destroyer cruising speeds' translating into roughly 37,000c, yet at the same time .45 is 128 (or thereabouts) ly an hour which translates into 1.1 million c. All of which flies in the face of the movies which has 30 to 100 million c hyperdrive speeds.
Let's just add that with a .6 hyperdrive Mirax Terrik's ship was considered slower than the Millenium Falcon.
Most of this from memory so feel free to correct.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-07-29 08:14pm

Hmmdeedum, I did this quick calculation:

So hmm, looking at this, it would take the Executor Class 26 hours to cross the galaxy at 33.3 million times c using her normal main x2 hyperdrive, but a little over 9 months using her backup x10 hyperdrive with a mere 0.13 million times C rating.

Ironically, Trek drive technology is somewhere between a x16 and x17 backup hyperdrive rating using my SWAGed scale, which is also coincidentally around the backup hyperdrive ratings for a lot of SW ships, which is probably why they carry several months' worth of consumables at least, even with a hyperdrive that can cross the galaxy in a day or so; because what if your hyperdrive craps out and you have to limp to a gas station on the backup?

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-07-29 08:19pm

What is this based on, out of curiosity (and if you had that at your disposal why start this thread in the first place)?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-07-29 08:24pm

Batman wrote:What is this based on, out of curiosity

Well I took 100 million C to be the upper limit of hyperdrive technology, e.g. being x0.5 as in the MIllenium Falcon; and then extrapolated each full increment in hyperdrive ratings being 2 x slower than the rating above it.

(and if you had that at your disposal why start this thread in the first place)?

I didn't have that at my disposal at first; I only cooked it together after reading your talka bout speeds ranging from x to 100 million times c.

Interestingly, WEG has the VSD having a x1 hyperdrive, but in the Thrawn trilogy (where the 127 LY rating comes from), there's mention that it's "Cruising speed" is actually somewhere around x4 or x4.5; which probably makes some sense; it could be like wet ship speeds; if you've ever played around with Springsharp, you'd realize that you need a truly gargantugan power plant to get a ship up to 30~ knots, but far far less to maintain a nice sedate 20~ knots.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-07-29 08:26pm

IIRC, the thing about the numbers in Zahn's story was that it went backwards: the larger the number, the faster it goes, opposite to the standard method.

At least as I recall.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-07-29 08:30pm

Thinking more about it; remember when Luke exclaimed "I could buy a ship for that much money!!!" when Han stated his price in ANH? The absurd cost could be a representative of how much it costs Han to "fill up" the Falcon with high grade fuels after a sustained full speed run all the way at x0.5 rather then at a more "sedate" x2

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2006-07-29 08:37pm

^ You are correct. The system wasn't standardized yet.

Zahn's cruising speed for a VicStar was "Point Four," or .4, and that was meant to be slower than the Falcon's speed of .5.

But by the X-Wing books, the scale had been worked out, so Mirax Terrik's Pulsar Skate was slightly slower than the Falcon at .6. Which is still hella fast, according to the EGVV: the Outrider is a .75 and is supposedly has no trouble outrunning almost any Imperial ship it encounters.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-07-29 08:44pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:IIRC, the thing about the numbers in Zahn's story was that it went backwards: the larger the number, the faster it goes, opposite to the standard method.
At least as I recall.

He definitely does. Since I hate the 'hyperdrive modifier' stuff introduced by WEG I happen to approve.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-07-29 09:42pm

MKSheppard wrote:Hmmdeedum, I did this quick calculation:

<snip>

Is this regarding the SW galaxy distance or the Milky Way?

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-07-29 09:48pm

Math is not your strong point I take it.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2006-07-29 09:58pm

To actually answer the question, it's not. He used a galactic diameter of 100k lightyears, but I've heard a 120k lightyear diameter figure thrown around for the SW galaxy. All you had to do was multiply the ly/hr by the amount of hours to cross the galaxy and you would have gotten your answer, Cos. Duh.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-07-29 11:00pm

I used the 100k LY diameter of our galaxy as a baseline.

I've also been doing some more thinking on the speeds of hyperdrive:

In virutally all the canon cases we've seen, the owners of the ships that bang across the galaxy in mere hours are ones for whom cost is no object:

Han Solo: Smuggler who charges outrageous prices for his services

Darth Maul: Evil Sith in service to Palpatine, who is essentially a very influental senator with I imagine a large slush fund

Count Dooku: Evil Sith in Service to Palpatine, who is now president of the republic, with an even bigger presidental slush fund.

Padme Amidala: High ranking senator and before that queen of naboo, her ship is an official government vehicle, she doesn't need to worry about paying for gas.

The Jedi: Again, the Jedi are paying the bill when OB1 and so on shoot around at high speeds using their hyperspace rings.

All of this probably explains why in film canon, speeds are really high, while when we go to the EU, we end up dealing with the "normal" side of the galaxy, your run of the mill smugglers, etc; and normal military operations. In the films we only see really critical military operations (this cannot fail!), while in the books, we get to see more mundane operations, and so ships cruise at their most economical hyperspace speeds, rather than burning fuel and money for the hell of it//

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-07-29 11:06pm

MKSheppard wrote:All of this probably explains why in film canon, speeds are really high, while when we go to the EU, we end up dealing with the "normal" side of the galaxy, your run of the mill smugglers, etc; and normal military operations. In the films we only see really critical military operations (this cannot fail!), while in the books, we get to see more mundane operations, and so ships cruise at their most economical hyperspace speeds, rather than burning fuel and money for the hell of it//

I suspect that you are quite correct. Only top of the line warships and military heavy transports are typically listed as having class One or Two hyperdrives, while civilian models seem to be more often fitted with class Three or Four units. Interestingly, though, I don't believe I've ever seen a reference to a ship with a maximum hyperdrive ranking of less than Four; even the cheapest interstellar civilan transports can cross the Galaxy in less than a week.

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-07-30 12:20am

Most civilian ships we see either belong to smugglers or are passenger liners. It's possible there's still some ships with Class 5 hyperdrives somewhere.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-07-30 04:22am

Shep, there is specific hourages from Sluis Van to Thyferra and back in Bacta War, but I don't have it on hand. Comparison to hyperdrive multipliers in the X-Wing and Exec should yield some speeds, and comparison to how far apart they are on the galaxy map relative to the diameter (120,000 lyr) ought to give you a decent guesstimate.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2006-07-30 05:12am

MKSheppard wrote: All of this probably explains why in film canon, speeds are really high, while when we go to the EU, we end up dealing with the "normal" side of the galaxy, your run of the mill smugglers, etc; and normal military operations. In the films we only see really critical military operations (this cannot fail!), while in the books, we get to see more mundane operations, and so ships cruise at their most economical hyperspace speeds, rather than burning fuel and money for the hell of it//

Unfortunately, this doesn't work out that well either because time critical missions in the EU also take a few days of hyperspace transit.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2006-07-30 09:33pm

I had to dig for this, but in an old discussion on The Krytos Trap, the Falcon appeared to have a speed of at least 9230 lightyears per hour, or just under 66 million c.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2006-08-01 01:01pm

Noble Ire wrote:I don't believe I've ever seen a reference to a ship with a maximum hyperdrive ranking of less than Four; even the cheapest interstellar civilan transports can cross the Galaxy in less than a week.

There is a few. World Devastators were fitted with a Six.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-08-01 05:57pm

PainRack wrote:Unfortunately, this doesn't work out that well either because time critical missions in the EU also take a few days of hyperspace transit.

I'm not going to bend and stretch my theory to absurdist extremes to acommodate every writers' fart, like some people have done in Trek with "warp highways" trying to make up for incredible travel times.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-08-01 10:16pm

MKSheppard wrote:
PainRack wrote:Unfortunately, this doesn't work out that well either because time critical missions in the EU also take a few days of hyperspace transit.
I'm not going to bend and stretch my theory to absurdist extremes to acommodate every writers' fart, like some people have done in Trek with "warp highways" trying to make up for incredible travel times.

Dr Saxton accounts for the absurd low extremes by noting a difference between well-charted regions and relatively unexplored regions; if a ship is traversing a region where the precise locations of stars and planets are not known, it will have to travel more slowly to react to chance encounters.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2006-08-02 07:54am

MKSheppard wrote: I'm not going to bend and stretch my theory to absurdist extremes to acommodate every writers' fart, like some people have done in Trek with "warp highways" trying to make up for incredible travel times.

Unfortunately, they are the "norm". Dr Saxton hyperlanes and WEG certain areas of the galaxy are just less "fast" than others appears to be a more acceptable argument.

I been leaning towards the theory that hyperdrive ratings represent acceleration per unit fuel consumed as opposed to some topline speed. It would help to adjust for some of the slower speeds seen in the EU, by suggesting that the shorter journey simply didn't allow for the time neccesary to speed up to canon speeds before decceleration must occur.

Unfortunately, that theory doesn't account for why short hyperspace jumps would be "faster" in certain areas as opposed to a straight transit jump.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-08-02 08:01pm

Surlethe wrote: Dr Saxton accounts for the absurd low extremes by noting a difference between well-charted regions and relatively unexplored regions; if a ship is traversing a region where the precise locations of stars and planets are not known, it will have to travel more slowly to react to chance encounters.

Unfortunately, most of the EU (and defintely TTT) takes place in well-charted regions of the galaxy (or what ought to be well-charted regions after how many millenia of living there?)
Them going slow out of caution works for the Outer Rim or the Unknown Regions. Not for the inner galaxy, where most of the novel EU takes place.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-08-02 08:36pm

PainRack wrote:Unfortunately, they are the "norm". Dr Saxton hyperlanes and WEG certain areas of the galaxy are just less "fast" than others appears to be a more acceptable argument.

Hyperlanes aren't a Saxton-exclusive invention or rationalisation. Hyperlanes are simply established primary routes through Hyperspace, analogous to innerstate and highway road systems.

And it makes sense to have areas of space that are "faster" or "slower" than each other when you consider things that are either hazardous or impractical to navigate through. Some routes take longer to transverse than others because there are more hazards to be avoided.

Batman wrote:Unfortunately, most of the EU (and defintely TTT) takes place in well-charted regions of the galaxy (or what ought to be well-charted regions after how many millenia of living there?)
Them going slow out of caution works for the Outer Rim or the Unknown Regions. Not for the inner galaxy, where most of the novel EU takes place.

Related to my second point above, even if a region is well-charted and monitored doesn't mean you can just jump through it in a straint line in whatever direction you want. Navigational hazards still have to be considered. Plus the further you go inward towards the center of the Galaxy, the denser things generally are, going from fairly open and sparse in the Outer Rim to being in very close proximity and hard to navigate in the Deep Core.