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 Post subject:

Posted: 2002-07-13 12:38am 

 Post subject:

Posted: 2002-07-13 12:49am 

Ok here is my view on it. Yes the terrans have that kind of industrial capabilities. We take a fairly small group the sons of korhal that in less than a year are able to muster a force of battle crusiers to strike the Confed homeworld and take it off at the head. Also battle cruisers aren't that weak, they, with armor upgrades, can take a direct hit by a tactical nuclear weaponry. And as wong has recently pointed out that thick armor as seen in the last Voyager episode was is superior to Fed shields and battle crusiers have great armor, enough to crash into a planet and stay in remotely one piece. Now I'm not saying 1 battlecrusier could take 1 star trek vessel. Accually I don't think 1 could. But with a science vessel taking down the shields, two BCs could target the star trek ship with yamato cannons, one would be destroyed by the photon torps but the other's yamato cannon(as seen in the cutscene, which seems hella more powerful in then in gameplay) would crush even a GCS like a paper bag.

 Post subject:

Posted: 2002-07-13 12:58am 

I do not understand this terrans wipe ass of federantion because I do not understand some of the stuff said here...

We have 3 Battlecruisers NPCs in the game: Raynors and the one that belong to General (I forget his name) ,the one Mengsk(sp?) rescue from Zergs and later we kill with Protoss (but somehow he returns in Broad Wars) and Mengsk in Broad Wars when he is killed by Kerrigan's group. I suppose at least one of those are capitol ships. And all they have are extra hit points and damage. No special Yamato Gun.
Also, all the size talking is fine and yeah, the gameplay made them look a bit smaller, but they still being a ship that you have to produce food for only 8 people. I cannt imagine someone using a ship that big as some place said here using just that few amount of food.
Also it seems the Yamato Gun is not that damaging - (to no forget the lack of shield), since it barelly can destroy a bulding - actually very few buldings can be destroyed by a yamato gun single shot and they cannt fire it all the time. Enterprise can destroy much more buldings in one shot in the surface of a planet than a Battlecruiser...
Also, the cloaking of Ghosts does not mean that Federation will lose, since they have been facing cloaking enemies for years and they have no lost yet...
Just what I could think off...

 Post subject:

Posted: 2002-07-13 05:28pm 

In the final cutscene in the first terran campaign we see the true power of the Yamato gun. It is severly weakened in the game. Any unshielded space ship hit by that would collapse in on itself from the damage or in Star Trek's case blow up from the damage. Also it is not run by eight people unless it has some sort of avatar system like the Andromeda(I know I can't spell) as seen in the opening cutscene of Brood Wars. Size is unbalaced in Starcraft. 1 marine could accually represent a unit, we don't know how much 1 supply unit provides other people. And it's not just food, it's supplies, like ammo, batteries and what not.

 Post subject:

Posted: 2002-07-14 03:29am 

My memory does not work correctly , the final scene was one that a yamato shot kills carriers ? I have not the cinematics here, so if you can describe it again or just post a url with this cinematic, would be just easier to understand you.
But lets put this way:
A yamato gun cannt kill a battlecruiser - A Example of unshilded ship. It still unable to destroy a single bulding in one shot, even if you think this is a weaken version for gameplay, we would have to jump a bit high to make it able to destroy the surface of a planet, like a federation ship can do, right ?
I never said it was a 8 members crew - my point: it needed very few resourses to be build and mantained to claim sizes of a destroyer or the enterprise. That would not make much sense.
And yes, Size is not balanced for Gameplay. I agree. Probally the range of ships and all that also. But the industrial power of the game - the speed they produce their weapons is also not balanced. The speed they made a battlecruiser is not much inferior of the training of a marine or the building of a tank also. If the industrial power of terrans was taken here as advantage of terrans over ST , even if its a gameplay feature, we cannt dismiss other gameplay features as well, right ?
I do not understand why people do not said anything about ghosts...who can paralyze any ship if they get in range to do the shot...

 Post subject:

Posted: 2002-07-15 02:16pm 

Those ships of the Terrans aren't any faster than the colony ships that brought them to the new Starcraft worlds (and, BTW, having Earth and the Terrans have the same damn tech exactly is just stupid).[/quote]

If they aren't faster then how did they get there (according to the storyline)in just a couple of weeks? They were watching the colonyies the whole time and when they saw the Zerg, they first had to be come the United Earth Directorate (remember it was the United Powers League before that didn't encompass the whole of Earth, just most of it's nations) and then they got there at the same time or while they were escaping Aiur which was right after the end of the original star craft.

As for the exile Terrans having the exact same technology (except for the medic and valkyrie), I agree, damn stupid, but I wouldn't have liked it if they had reinvented the whole Terran technology that might have had made the game a bit un balanced.

 Post subject:

Posted: 2002-07-16 11:24am 

Alright, I may have been wrong about the exact time frame for the speed of the ships. But although I despise much of Star Trek, I do have to say they'd win by a nose, in the short term. They seem to have much bigger fleets than the Terrans.

Apart from which, it still appears that Trek is still probably equal in speed at least, and I expect even the Federation could outmuscle the Terrans in the STar lanes. I still say ST has better speed.

Battlecruisers would do some nasty damage to GCS's, even, but the sheer numbers would break the Terrans. The only evening force would be the fighters - Terran fighters are fast, manuverable, and can fire while cloaked. We don't know the claoking mechanism, but it seems to resist all but the most advanced Terran sensors. Even the Protoss have to use special probes to find them.

I suspect the Protoss could easily crush any fleet the Feds send off. The Scouts alone could wipe out most Fed fleets, much less with Carrier support and Coursair help.

And I want to state for the record that Valkyries suck.

In ground combat, though, its Terrans all the way. They could put up a good fight against the Empire there, I think.

 Post subject:

Posted: 2002-07-16 12:29pm 

[quote=]And I want to state for the record that Valkyries suck.[/quote]

Valkyries suck when it's alone against one ship but it's good when a few are enmassed against a larger clustered fleet. I use them in island games(when there is limited resources, if the resources are unlimited, I just go for battle cruisers) when the enemy has a lot of ships clustered together while attacking.

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Posted: 2002-07-16 01:08pm 

But even so, I'd still rather have battlcruisers. Those stupid valkyries don't have the fire power to stand up to the punihsment heavy battlecruiser bombardment brings.

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Posted: 2002-07-16 01:40pm 

If anyone goes the the starcraft GameFAQs message board, Smiling here is what we call a money map newbie. On real maps battlecrusiers suck in large numbers. 1 or 2 to support your fighters, or to use yamato gun to lure air units into a trap on the other side of you opponents base. Valkaries are far better for anti-air because they have one hell of a splash area, faster to go to where your being attacked and cheaper, but in a money map, what do you care? Nothing beats 20 some odd battlecruisers. WRONG! Played a game where me and another guy where backstabbed by 2 people, one who went all carrier one who went all BC. Earlier on in the game the moron said zerglings sucked. So after they BSed us(they did it stupid, they just unallied with no units in our bases) I sent about 100 of them under his battlecruiser and destroyed all his SCVs and comand centers most of the rest of his base before his BC finished off my guys. Then he attacked me and in the time it took for them to get their I was able to create near a dozen Devourers and several waves of scourges as they fought, destroyed all his BCs and started a new wave of lings. My ally with dragoons and corsairs and photon cannons destroyed all his carriers and destoryed most of his base which literally about 60% of was photon cannons. You know what the bastards did? They allied. And so did my ally. Fucking people, I wish they didn't exisist.

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Posted: 2002-07-17 12:06am 

I think those dudes would be much more effective with less battlecruisers but with a constant support group of mariners or the carrier with the zealots. Then the group of big ships would be destructive...
But any starcraft player that say that zerglings suck, does not know the game. There is no defense, no matter how good, to stop 100 zerglings with full upgrade...

 Post subject:

Posted: 2002-07-17 10:26am 

You insult me! Fire Good!

No, really, I don't play Battlecruisers offensively.

I do like to have a couple to clear ground-only defenses and maybe a couple wraiths to harry the enemy.

Which, in fact, is why I hate Valkyries. I don't like to play Air Offense. And there are more cost effective air defenses than Valkyires by far: Marines, BC's, AA Guns, and Wraiths. So the high cost of Valykries, plus the fact they literally have almost nothing of mine to hit, means they suck. They are, in fact, only worth having if your opponent is playing heavily air.

 Post subject:

Posted: 2002-07-17 11:58am 

Gimme somethin' to shoot.

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Posted: 2002-07-17 02:49pm 

That's why I use them in island maps. They usually go very heavily air.

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Posted: 2002-07-17 08:58pm 

I seem to remember that in both Starcraft and Brood War the terran end cinimas showed quite a few ships.

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Posted: 2002-07-17 10:27pm 

I am inclined to believe that the Federation could actually win a fight (I'm scared, too). The Terrans don't have shields, and their armor appears to be fairly weak (not by ST, standards, but not as strong as shields). I don't think that the Terrans could win, although they certainly have cooler personnel. I think the protoss wouold kick the Federation, royally, though. The carrier is a damn powerful ship, and the Federation has no answer for it.

 Post subject:

Posted: 2002-07-18 02:50am 

Wow I feel bad right now. I was playing a 7v1 comp (I was only there because I was hoping there would be a bser) and we were backstabbed and we went after this guy I don't know what his name was wuppin, wuttin, something that starts with a w, he was zerg, nad he asn't allied till after the computer was defeated so we assumed that it was him and we attacked him, while I was attacking him of was having second thoughts because he had just a few zerglings running around so I pulled out my guys and said that I'm not sure if he is the bser but they kept attacking and before he left he said "why me?". He was defeated and left and we still didn't win and we went uh oh. We hanged around a little, one guy killed himself, the other guy followed his example. I thought that this other guy was the bser because he kept accussing me.(we had stopped building military units and all buildings to prover we weren't bsing) then I was just checkin some things at the base and I heard my units were getting killed, I checked and it war Jamilin or Jazlin (the guy I thought was the bser)or something llike that zealots were attacking my marines. He said "boo". I unallied with him and stimpacked all my marines who had medic support, destroyed his army (with some help by my ally who had about half as many zerglings ans I did marines, I would have been able to beat him without his help though) and went on to his base where he had build some more zealots, killed them and proceeded on to his base. After that he said "oh shit, stupid me, I'm not allied" "stupid me" "im allied" "ally very quick" "ally plz". What I had to say to that is LoL, screw you. I procceeded to defeat him

 Post subject:

Posted: 2002-07-18 03:42am 

Master Ossus:

But the Carrier is not more powerful than a Battlecruiser, which usually wins the fight against a Carrier because a Yamato shot.
The carrier armor still much weak, i think, to hold a shot against a Fed's ship shoot and correct if i am wrong: The Carrier gives little damage, just a large amount of those, like mosquitoes. But if their little shots cannt break the shields, the fed's ship wouldnt few anything ?
Of course, would be a stuff from other world seeing a Enterprise being mind controled by a dark templar...

 Post subject:

Posted: 2002-07-18 12:57pm 

Reply thats the only advantage I give the protoss against the feds. Not mind controlling the whole ship, but mind controlling someone in the ship, getting them to shut down the shields and then in come the scouts.
Frankly I think the terrans would fair the best. Unless the feds amassed a large army like the one to retake DS9, then terran fleets would out number them. And then the Science Vessels come in, knock down the fed ship's shields and then a couple of BCs go for a much more powerful yamato cannon than seen in the game(cutscene one was hella more powerful) and even if one gets torped the other one will fire and obliterate the ship. Also emping a group of ST ships and then sending in the cloaked wraiths to give them hell.

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Posted: 2002-07-19 01:15am 

well, if the mind control can control the unity inside the veihicles, then when one control the FD ship, they would control everyone inside, which would be better than having yet to lower down shields and wait for the scouts to kill it.
But of course, the ship must be close, since the range of the mind control is not that big and the Dark templar is unable to use it when inside anything...

But then, the large army would not have a firepower or defence to actually drestroy the minnor number of FD ships. The Science Vessel have a pretty short range and also, in the game, when we saw a science vessel coming we just split the troops so he will take energy of one or two ships. And the Science Vessel is dead after that.
I still ask you for a description of the cute scene, the one i have in the memory does not help. (about yamato gun)...
Also, the cloaking...The FDs are used with facing cloaking. I still think the ghost is more dangerous terran to then.

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Posted: 2002-07-19 04:08am 

I think Starcraft would be at a minor disadvantage in space, but they will Royally Rape Trek on the ground. And wars are won by capturing land, not flying through space.

A few thoughts:

50 Protoss ships BDZed the Planet Chau Sara, and I think a couple others too. Not impressive vs. ISD but to the Federation that'd be pretty bad firepower. Since this was done from orbit their ships must at least have sufficient range to fire from orbit to surface, not the 20 feet people suggest. And the Terrans are comparble to the Protoss, remember Zeratul warning Artanis not to underestimate Terran forces, that they would not have defeated the Overmind without them? He wouldn't have said that if Terrans were centuries less advanced than the Protoss or vastly inferior.

The Terran's build space platforms that are huge, many kilometers across and surround the entire planets, covered with missile turrets and at least one scene had a monster gun called an ion cannon. That suggests some impressive engineering skills to build what amounts to a planet-sized ringworld for defense, almost as good as a planetary shield.

 Post subject:

Posted: 2002-07-19 12:19pm 

And remember, with StarCraft, each force is the product of one base, in addition to a fairly arbitrary mancount limit. It's has been my theory that an individual Terran base can produce a number of tactically usable battlecruisers, while a Terran planet can bring a much larger industrial base (not only a base that is not in constant fear of enemy attack) to produce larger battleships.

Do the Zerg even have ships that can perform combat in space?

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Posted: 2002-07-19 02:54pm 

Is it just me, or do Terran Battlecruisers look like Klingon Ships?
I think any race in SC would rape the hell out of Starfleet. And we havnt heard from the Xel'Nagua, (something like that) that is due to appear in SC2, which created the Protoss and the Zerg... But, its coming out in like, 2004, so that sucks.

 Post subject: zerg ships

Posted: 2002-07-19 03:37pm 

the zerg does have ships, though not in the traditional sense, the mutalisk is a all-around fighter, the guardian a bomber, a sourage a living guided missile and the devouar a heavy gunship, they should be able to destory federation ships in large swarms like they noramally operate in.[/quote]

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Posted: 2002-07-19 06:07pm 

Battlecruisers DO kind of look like Vor'Cha class Attack Cruisers, now that you mention it. I also agree that SC could CRUSH SF on the ground, but I don't think that the Terrans could beat SF in space. The Protoss would be able to do it easily, and SF has no counter for scourges.