Recipes for Shepherd's Pie?

[Broomstick]

Right, because beef is the equivalent of white bread and ketchup.

[Flagg]

Right, because beef is the equivalent of white bread and ketchup.

Wow, you must be one hell of a midget because the point that sailed 3 feet over your head is that when you order a dish, you expect the correct ingredients to be used, not cheap (beef is cheaper than lamb or mutton which is why it's so often used as a substitute for restaurants that rip off their tasteless and/ or ignorant customers which is why I'm not shocked it happens so much in the Flyover states) and incorrect substitutes.

[Broomstick]

And you don't seem to understand that different dishes can have different recipes in different regions.

Honestly, it's a really crazy thing to get so wound up about.

BTW - thanks for insulting half the country. WTF is wrong with you?

[Purple]

Also, a TV show isn´t exactly a restaurant. In TV shows they show you what is in the food. In fact that´s the point of the show.

Which is why Flagg has a point here. If you went to a restaurant and had a nice piece of X. And next week a cooking show shows you how to make X. But it turns out that the X they showed you was completely different would you not feel cheated?

[Flagg]

And you don't seem to understand that different dishes can have different recipes in different regions.

Honestly, it's a really crazy thing to get so wound up about.

BTW - thanks for insulting half the country. WTF is wrong with you?

It's a thread about making shepherds pie, and my position is that shepherds pie needs sheep meat in it to be called shepherds pie. It's a pet peeve of mine when people substitute lower quality, cheaper ingredients (like ground beef), which constitutes an entirely different dish. It's like ordering a BLT and getting cabbage instead of lettuce.

And I insult the entire country all the time, so please don't take it like I hate the Midwest any more than the rest of this failed democracy (though I do despise what people there consider food). As for what's wrong with me, that's TBD.

[Broomstick]

You know, if I could fucking FIND lamb maybe that wouldn't be an issue but not a god-damned grocery store around here sells it - everything is pork, chicken, pork, beef, pork. With a side of pork.

Wait, there is ONE place I can buy lamb - a local halal butcher. But I have to buy 1/4 of a lamb at a time. Not exactly convenient. And I have to do my own grinding. Or I suppose I could fucking move to another state but that's not exactly easy, either. Or cheap.

It's not expense, it's practicality.

[Flagg]

You know, if I could fucking FIND lamb maybe that wouldn't be an issue but not a god-damned grocery store around here sells it - everything is pork, chicken, pork, beef, pork. With a side of pork.

Wait, there is ONE place I can buy lamb - a local halal butcher. But I have to buy 1/4 of a lamb at a time. Not exactly convenient. And I have to do my own grinding. Or I suppose I could fucking move to another state but that's not exactly easy, either. Or cheap.

It's not expense, it's practicality.

And you wonder why I call the Midwest "flyover country"!

[Broomstick]

If the folks out by you all have such a "charming" personality I am quite content to have you flying over rather than stopping and bitching.

[salm]

Also, a TV show isn´t exactly a restaurant. In TV shows they show you what is in the food. In fact that´s the point of the show.

Which is why Flagg has a point here. If you went to a restaurant and had a nice piece of X. And next week a cooking show shows you how to make X. But it turns out that the X they showed you was completely different would you not feel cheated?

So would you order a chicken kebab and then expect it to contain lamb?

[Bernkastel]

That's an inaccurate analogy. A correct way of describing it would be ordering a dish at restaurant and then finding out later that the dish you ordered should have had a different and higher quality ingredient in it.

Alternatively, in regards to ordering a Shepard's Pie, it would be like ordering a high quality variant of a dish and then finding out as they serve you your meal that they only sell an inferior variant of a dish and mislabelled it.

[Purple]

Also, a TV show isn´t exactly a restaurant. In TV shows they show you what is in the food. In fact that´s the point of the show.

Which is why Flagg has a point here. If you went to a restaurant and had a nice piece of X. And next week a cooking show shows you how to make X. But it turns out that the X they showed you was completely different would you not feel cheated?

So would you order a chicken kebab and then expect it to contain lamb?

No. But if I ordered a kebab that does not have the word chicken attached I would in fact expect lamb. It's alright to give your dish a different name (E.G. Chicken Kebab) but not to use the name of an existing dish for a different one (E.G. making a chicken kebab and calling it "Kebab" neglecting to mention the chicken). That's known as false advertising. Bernkastel gets it.

Also, am I the only one who thinks that the bold function on this forum really sucks? Like I can barely make out if text is bolded or not.

[salm]

@Purple and Bernkastel:
The issue arose when it was suggested that stupid TV chefs call a dish without lamb a shepard pie. In case of a TV show it doesn´t matter if it is explicitly stated that it is without lamb because the dish is prepared in front of your eyes and you can see that the dish does not contain lamb.

Regarding restaurants:
Flagg stated that he wouldn´t eat in a restaurant even if the contents were transparent but the "wrong" name applied to a meal. Since you built up on my exchange with him it was logical to conclude you were thinking the same.
I believe selling food without declaring the contents is illegal anyway so this usually shouldn´t be an issue.

[Crazedwraith]

As Flagg pointed out originally there's a term for Shepherd's Pie without lamb and with a different meat. 'Cottage Pie' so to me there's no real excuse to call it anything else.

[Purple]

The issue arose when it was suggested that stupid TV chefs call a dish without lamb a shepard pie. In case of a TV show it doesn´t matter if it is explicitly stated that it is without lamb because the dish is prepared in front of your eyes and you can see that the dish does not contain lamb.

Of course it matters. Because these people are educating you to cook the dish wrong. They are teaching you that the dish called "shepard pie" is in fact made out of stuff that ain't lamb. And unless you already know beforehand what the dish is supposed to be composed off you won't even know you are being taught to cook a fake.

So you go to a restaurant and have a nice helping of shepard pie. You have no idea what it's made out of but you liked it so you want to make some at home. So you turn on the TV trusting it to show you how. And the thing you see and prepare ends up completely different. "You were supposed to know better" does not cut it with education.

Flagg stated that he wouldn´t eat in a restaurant even if the contents were transparent but the "wrong" name applied to a meal.

And he is absolutely right. If you want to change the contents you also have to change the name otherwise it is false advertising. Imagine if your favorite shampoo or soda brand suddenly changed the mixture completely but retained the name. "It's on the label" does not and should not cut it. At least not in the moral sense.

[Bernkastel]

As Flagg pointed out originally there's a term for Shepherd's Pie without lamb and with a different meat. 'Cottage Pie' so to me there's no real excuse to call it anything else.

Exactly, there already is a correct name for such dishes. There really is no reason to use a different and incorrect one.

[salm]

As Flagg pointed out originally there's a term for Shepherd's Pie without lamb and with a different meat. 'Cottage Pie' so to me there's no real excuse to call it anything else.

So if you found a place where you could order a hamburger with cheese you´d assume that the place sucks?

[Purple]

As Flagg pointed out originally there's a term for Shepherd's Pie without lamb and with a different meat. 'Cottage Pie' so to me there's no real excuse to call it anything else.

So if you found a place where you could order a hamburger with cheese you´d assume that the place sucks?

There is a name for a hamburger with cheese you know. Use it.

[salm]

Of course it matters. Because these people are educating you to cook the dish wrong. They are teaching you that the dish called "shepard pie" is in fact made out of stuff that ain't lamb. And unless you already know beforehand what the dish is supposed to be composed off you won't even know you are being taught to cook a fake.

So you go to a restaurant and have a nice helping of shepard pie. You have no idea what it's made out of but you liked it so you want to make some at home. So you turn on the TV trusting it to show you how. And the thing you see and prepare ends up completely different. "You were supposed to know better" does not cut it with education.

Really, if you´re trying to get education from something as braindead as 24/7 cooking shows then the wrong naming convention is your smallest problem.

And he is absolutely right. If you want to change the contents you also have to change the name otherwise it is false advertising. Imagine if your favorite shampoo or soda brand suddenly changed the mixture completely but retained the name. "It's on the label" does not and should not cut it. At least not in the moral sense.

No, you don´t have to change the name only the discription. If you don´t understand: "Shepards pie with beef" then your´re only place in the restaurant is the toddles chair where mommy can feed you with the puree of her choosing.

[salm]

As Flagg pointed out originally there's a term for Shepherd's Pie without lamb and with a different meat. 'Cottage Pie' so to me there's no real excuse to call it anything else.

So if you found a place where you could order a hamburger with cheese you´d assume that the place sucks?

There is a name for a hamburger with cheese you know. Use it.

So you´d really assume the place sucks?
Interesting. What about spelling errors?

[Purple]

So you´d really assume the place sucks?
Interesting. What about spelling errors?

I would assume, and rightly so that the guy in charge of naming things on the menu does not know a thing about what he is writing about. Otherwise he would not have used the wrong name. And that would make me question the professionalism of the establishment. What else have they gotten wrong?

Names exist for a reason. They are labels we use to classify things. To use a wrong label for something is showing your incompetence in the field or alternatively a lack of fucks given. And neither is something that should be acceptable.

[Crazedwraith]

As Flagg pointed out originally there's a term for Shepherd's Pie without lamb and with a different meat. 'Cottage Pie' so to me there's no real excuse to call it anything else.

So if you found a place where you could order a hamburger with cheese you´d assume that the place sucks?

How would you feel about a menu that said: BeefBurger! (Made with chicken)?


You've not come forth with any reason why they can't just called it Cottage Pie I see.

[salm]

Rightly so? Half of the foreign restaurants can´t spell the stuff they sell and it´s still great food. Cooks need to know how to cook, not how to write.

If you label someting as "X but with A instead of the usual B" then everybody will understand. If you get anally retentive about it it´s probably your loss because you might miss out on some pretty good stuff.

[salm]

How would you feel about a menu that said: BeefBurger! (Made with chicken)?

You've not come forth with any reason why they can't just called it Cottage Pie I see.

BeefBurger made with chicken is a bit silly because it directly contradicts itself which Shepards pie does not. Shepards pie would contradict itself if it was made out of bricklayers instead of shepards.
However, even if it has a silly name it might still be a pretty good Chicken BeefBurger.

There is no reason not to call it Cottage Pie. I never said there was.

Actually a contradicting name like that is pretty common and no body cares. Vegetarian meat. It´s a useful discriptor because in two short words it discribes something that is similar to meat but doesn´t contain animals. Everybody knows what it is supposed to mean even though it is factually wrong.

[Zaune]

So would you order a chicken kebab and then expect it to contain lamb?

In my neck of the woods, if you order any kind of kebab you count yourself lucky if it doesn't contain cat. Well, unless you're too shitfaced to care, which is the traditional state of being in which to order kebabs.

[Broomstick]

That's an inaccurate analogy. A correct way of describing it would be ordering a dish at restaurant and then finding out later that the dish you ordered should have had a different and higher quality ingredient in it.

One flaw with that notion is that idea that beef is seen as inferior. For many people in my region it is not considered an inferior ingredient. There is a definite cultural preference for beef around here. Well, beef and pork.

I agree, ordering something and expecting one thing then getting another is disturbing, but I'm wondering where this notion that beef is inherently inferior to lamb comes from.

And, again, in this region the words "shepherd's pie" don't mean what they do in England. Do we normally erupt into swearing over the difference in meaning between "fanny" or "pants" between two different places? Given that restaurants around here also commonly tell you what the ingredients are in a dish no one capable of reading should be "fooled". Would you get bent out of shape if a restaurant offered "A vegetarian version of shepherd's pie"?