2011 NCAA Football Thread

[Darth Fanboy]

Didn't necessairly want to start the official thread yet but if this becomes it I can change the title I think.

So USC was denied their appeal of the NCAA sanctions levied against them and will lose 30 scholarships, endure one more year of a postseason ban, and not be allowed to particpate in a bowl. This because two former players were eventually found to have recieved benefits.

Compare this to Ohio State and Auburn, two other powers of similar stature who have been involved in scandals as well yet have recieved relatively light sanctions compared to USC for actions that players who were at the time CURRENT were undertaking. Why does USC get punished for Reggie Bush after Bush is already in the NFL, yet Terelle Pryor and Cam Newton can be involved in problems yet no similar bans for those schools?

I believe the NCAA's sanctions on USC are justified, but any message they had hoped to send with it was pissed away by not being tough on Auburn and OSU.

Meanwhile, Boise State is self imposing sanctions on their football program because of TENNIS AND TRACK related violations. Ex-fucking-cuse me for wondering how stupid that sounds, Punish other programs at the school for problems made by another? BSU doesn't have the same "lack of institutional control" reputation that USC built up. I can't say that I like this idea at all.

EDIT:

Thread Title Changed on 6/14/2011 by thread starter.

[Block]

Didn't necessairly want to start the official thread yet but if this becomes it I can change the title I think.

So USC was denied their appeal of the NCAA sanctions levied against them and will lose 30 scholarships, endure one more year of a postseason ban, and not be allowed to particpate in a bowl. This because two former players were eventually found to have recieved benefits.

Compare this to Ohio State and Auburn, two other powers of similar stature who have been involved in scandals as well yet have recieved relatively light sanctions compared to USC for actions that players who were at the time CURRENT were undertaking. Why does USC get punished for Reggie Bush after Bush is already in the NFL, yet Terelle Pryor and Cam Newton can be involved in problems yet no similar bans for those schools?

I believe the NCAA's sanctions on USC are justified, but any message they had hoped to send with it was pissed away by not being tough on Auburn and OSU.

Meanwhile, Boise State is self imposing sanctions on their football program because of TENNIS AND TRACK related violations. Ex-fucking-cuse me for wondering how stupid that sounds, Punish other programs at the school for problems made by another? BSU doesn't have the same "lack of institutional control" reputation that USC built up. I can't say that I like this idea at all.

There's 10 programs in the top 25 that should be cited for LOIC far greater than USC was ever accused of and they get slaps on the wrist, if that, and everyone forgets. Bush got paid for what he'd do in the NFL, and was urged more than once to leave school early, and the only links to the school are only the testimony of a pair of convicts who stand to gain financially from sticking to their story, yet USC gets hammered. There was no reputation at USC other than they had open practices and let stars come down to the sidelines. The NCAA is about as inconsistent and corrupt as it gets.

[Darth Fanboy]

And now Tressel has resigned as more details become uncovered and still no comparable sanction?

[Havok]

NCAA Football is a joke. It's becoming harder and harder to watch as they move to gimmick based offenses based solely on athletic prowess and not actually skill and it is increasingly hypocritical in the actions it takes against students that get punished for making money off what they do while the NCAA makes money off what they do.

What will change this, and I can see it coming, is more parents being like Pryor's dad. How much will you pay my son to come make you millions?

The NFL requires you to be out of high school for two years before entering the draft... NOT playing for a college team for two years. At some point, a very smart businessman man is going to start a new developmental league that takes players from high school and pays them to play while starting up a draft from that league into the NFL.

Players make enough money to pay for college if they want to attend if they don't make it in the NFL AND you don't have any of the dumbass restrictions that the NCAA puts on players. Hell, the NFL could be fucking partners to ensure safety and the kids that don't make it get some sort of support getting into school if they choose to down the road. Every team can sponsor a few farm teams in their regions and then they can choose to enter the draft after 2, 3, 4, hell even 5 or 6 years.

It will be weird at first and will take some time to get going, but you would have teams that are truly getting players ready for the NFL and not just trying to win for the school. You can also develop coaches and other staff positions in a place where they aren't under the pressure of winning but sure as fuck want to. Just the money from TV alone would probably fund it.

It wouldn't be the USFL or the XFL, as those leagues were filled with has beens or never weres and only a few genuine talents, but a league full of promise. Who wouldn't want to watch that?

[Thanas]

^There are sounds of the UFL moving into that direction, as the stated aim of the UFL owner is to eventually serve as a sort of developmental league to the NFL.

[Hawkwings]

Disclaimer: I go to USC.

I honestly do not expect any fairness, justice, or even internal consistency from the NCAA. I fully expect those other schools to get off with slaps on their wrists. That decision that allowed the ohio state five to play in their bowl game? Ha, what a travesty. "A unique opportunity for the students" was how the NCAA put it. They didn't want to deprive those players of such a unique opportunity. I can't even get that angry because it's so absurd.

I also expected our sanctions to be upheld, considering how high the deck was stacked against us. If anyone didn't notice, one of the early sanctions considered included a one-year TV ban for USC. Yeah, that didn't happen, I wonder why. It's alright though, USC will get through and continue to be a top power. We have too much of a successful football tradition for our fans and alumni to accept anything less, and that expectation will drive us to do great things.

Supposedly there's now congressional pressure on the NCAA, something like "what's going on here? We're going to take a closer look..." And what might really help is if someone actually takes the NCAA to court over these sort of events. USC has already stated that we will not sue the NCAA. However, there are other unfairly treated parties out there who may garner the support and money needed to do that.

[erik_t]

NCAA Football is a joke. It's becoming harder and harder to watch as they move to gimmick based offenses based solely on athletic prowess and not actually skill and it is increasingly hypocritical in the actions it takes against students that get punished for making money off what they do while the NCAA makes money off what they do.

Such a bizarre viewpoint for me. You could take most NFL teams and make them trade jerseys, and nobody would be the wiser. Bores me to tears, even before we have a commercial break both before and after a punt or kickoff so we can be admonished against the danger of the 'man-step'.

[Darth Fanboy]

Yeah that is an exaggeration there. There is a huge gulf in the talent and ability of the top teams versus the middle and lower tier teams. I think if we put the Patriots in Detroit jerseys and you'll notice a huge difference.

[Thanas]

Not to mention all the various offensive and defensive schemes....

[Havok]

And now the BCS, which has nothing actually to do with the NCAA, revoked the 2004 "Championship" from USC.

What ridiculousness. Reggie Bush didn't even score a touchdown in the game and USC STOMPED THE SHIT out of Oklahoma 55-19.

I hope USC goes undefeated the next 5 fucking years.

I wish that USC's new AD, instead of kowtowing to the NCAA would just say 'fuck off' and go independent. USC Football would have it's own TV deal in a day and could pick and chose which schools to play, ironically, leaving the one fair (i.e. every team plays each other) conference in the NCAA.

[Hawkwings]

This will forever be what people remember of that game.

The Pac-12 is no longer full round-robin. Back in the Pac-10 we played every other team, but now we have too many teams to do that, so we now havev a North/South conference split, ad we miss two teams from the other conference each year.

We're still 2004 National Champions though. We have the AP trophy sitting in Heritage Hall, and nobody else can lay a claim on any other trophies, so we're it.

EDIT: shit going down at ohio state again. Pryor announces he's leaving, and a former friend of his says that he's been getting tons of money signing stuff, and buying stuff like jewelry and Gucci shoes. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6637444

[Thanas]

I find it sad that Leinnart never translated that well to the NFL. Reggie Bush seems to have been hampered with injuries as well...too bad.

[Block]

I find it sad that Leinnart never translated that well to the NFL. Reggie Bush seems to have been hampered with injuries as well...too bad.

Apparently a large part of his problem was the coaching change after his first year and then of course having to sit behind a hall of famer. Supposedly the Texans coach really thought well of him and said that Leinart shouldn't have a problem finding a job next year.

[Darth Fanboy]

Leinart was surrounded by one of the most overall talented teams in recent memory, the NFL isn't kind to quarterbacks who don't make the transition faster than he was apparently capable of. Mark Sanchez wasn't as accomplished but he grew up in a hurry.


And now Terrell Pryor is bailing on OSU for his final season, proving to the NFL that the five game suspension he recieved was completely useless. Waiting on the NCAA to actually do something given the new revelations that have come to light. Meanwhile they get to have their cake and eat it too by stripping USC of a championship yet keeping all of the money they made from it.

[Tsyroc]

Leinart was surrounded by one of the most overall talented teams in recent memory, the NFL isn't kind to quarterbacks who don't make the transition faster than he was apparently capable of. Mark Sanchez wasn't as accomplished but he grew up in a hurry.

The Cardinals still would have done better with Leinart last year. They would have still blown, but he would have won them a couple more games and kept them from being quite so embarrassing so often last year. If they truly had a good run first offense like Whisenhunt wants then Leinart would have been okay, or better. They didn't have shit without Warner unloading it quick and accurately so that's what they had last year. I could see Leinart eventually becoming a good NFL QB. He might not but there certainly have been plenty of QBs that had to move a round a little in the league and mature a bit before hitting their stride.

And now Terrell Pryor is bailing on OSU for his final season, proving to the NFL that the five game suspension he recieved was completely useless. Waiting on the NCAA to actually do something given the new revelations that have come to light. Meanwhile they get to have their cake and eat it too by stripping USC of a championship yet keeping all of the money they made from it.

The money comment made me wonder. What if instead of sticking it to USC like they currently are the NCAA fined them an ass load of money? Maybe there's some concern that schools would get bailed out by wealthy boosters but the current system has never seemed fair to me.

Personally, even though I liked seeing USC get beat in games most of the time I think the majority of the fall out from the Bush thing has been bullshit. Yeah, he was getting improper benefits. He wasn't getting them from some guy who wanted him to play at USC he was getting them from some guy who wanted to make a shit load of money off of him after Bush went pro. To me that means that everything Bush and his team did on the field was legit. The NCAA is right for chewing ass for USC not having "institutional control" but that's where fines should come in. Fine the school, or preferably the head coach. Make it worth the coach's while to be a hard ass about people following the rules. They need to be more accountable anyway.

I'm sort of surprised we haven't seen schools bring law suits against coaches or players for rules infractions that cause the school harm. I'm sure they could put some sort of clause in the player's scholarship contract that if they are deemed to be responsible for a certain level of harm to the school based on rules violations that they could be held liable for repaying a certain amount of their scholarship. Or does that take them too close to just being professional athletes?


I'm a little less sympathetic on the OSU front. The "Tat 5" were getting special benefits because they were OSU players. I don't mind the tattoos, even if they supposedly cost a lot, but selling stuff that they got for being part of the team could too easily be a back door way for them to just get paid. As for Pryor and the cars,... supposedly the 350Z was proven to have been purchased by his mom (dude was driving it on a suspended license though) but the numerous other cars seems hinky. Other rumblings about what goes on routinely at OSU does not sound good for that program.

[Tsyroc]

This will forever be what people remember of that game.

That was an ass waxing. The highlights started off with bits of USC looking good and Oklahoma looking terrible. Then the USC looking good just starts piling on, play after play.

The Pac-12 is no longer full round-robin. Back in the Pac-10 we played every other team, but now we have too many teams to do that, so we now havev a North/South conference split, ad we miss two teams from the other conference each year.

I'm going to miss the full round-robin. I think that is the better way for conferences to go. I'll enjoy the novelty of the changes to the Pac-12, Big Ten and Big 12 for a few years but eventually I'll be back to wishing that all the conferences played a full round-robin and decided their champion that way. I'm hopeful that the Big Ten and Pac-12 will at least change their scheduling so they each will only miss playing one conference team a year.

still 2004 National Champions though. We have the AP trophy sitting in Heritage Hall, and nobody else can lay a claim on any other trophies, so we're it.

EDIT: shit going down at ohio state again. Pryor announces he's leaving, and a former friend of his says that he's been getting tons of money signing stuff, and buying stuff like jewelry and Gucci shoes. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6637444

I agree on USC being the 2004 NC. There's a lot of whining about how Auburn should get it and should have been in the game anyway. From what I understand, largely the same USC team spanked Auburn in Auburn the year before. So they can War Eagle me a river for all I care.

[Darth Fanboy]

I'm going to miss the full round-robin. I think that is the better way for conferences to go. I'll enjoy the novelty of the changes to the Pac-12, Big Ten and Big 12 for a few years but eventually I'll be back to wishing that all the conferences played a full round-robin and decided their champion that way. I'm hopeful that the Big Ten and Pac-12 will at least change their scheduling so they each will only miss playing one conference team a year.

Too much money lost not doing a conference championship game, I don't think it is possible anymore for a major CFB conference to not play one.

I agree on USC being the 2004 NC. There's a lot of whining about how Auburn should get it and should have been in the game anyway. From what I understand, largely the same USC team spanked Auburn in Auburn the year before. So they can War Eagle me a river for all I care.

Back in 2003 the #8 Trojans defeated the #6 Tigers in Auburn 23-0. It would have been a bloodbath if they had played again the next year.

[erik_t]

Out of conference, 2004 Auburn played La Tech, Louisiana-Monroe, and The Citadel. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

[Darth Fanboy]

BUT SEC SHOULD ALWAYS PLAY FOR TITLE.

In other news times are tough unless you last name is Chizik. If Auburn has that kind of money for a coach no wonder they were able to afford Cam Newton.

[Tsyroc]

It'll be interesting with the Big 12 not having the championship game again. That conference certainly had some interesting issues based on having a conference championship game. How often did their dominant team lose or get waxed in the championship game just in time to totally screw up the BCS picture.

[Tsyroc]

BUT SEC SHOULD ALWAYS PLAY FOR TITLE.

In other news times are tough unless you last name is Chizik. If Auburn has that kind of money for a coach no wonder they were able to afford Cam Newton.

Yeah, I still don't get him as a hire. He certainly didn't do anything spectacular while at Iowa State. Granted, he was at Iowa State, but it is possible for coaches to make a splash just by doing better than others in a less than ideal situation.

I'll really be interested to see how he does at Auburn over an extended period. Because right now Chizik just seems lucky. Presuming that Auburn doesn't get nailed with any sanctions etc.... over Cam Newton, that championship should help keep Chizik afloat in good will and recruits for at least a few more years. Then we'll get to see if it was all luck or if he can recruit and coach or if he just landed in the right situation.

I'm also looking forward to how the SEC is going to do now that conference has put the squeeze on over signing and has taken medical redshirting out of the hands of the schools/coaches.

[erik_t]

It's limited it somewhat, but they'll still be operating at a competitive advantage compared to conferences that treat their athletes like actual people.

[Darth Fanboy]

I think the Big 12 absolutely failed by not getting TCU. Still, they will eventually get two teams back in or fold eventually. Texas is temporarily satisfied because of all the money they stand to get from their cable network, which I could give two fucking shits about and I wish I didn't have to suffer through ads for it on a semi regular basis. Mack Brown had a bad season last year and the team seemed like it gave up with six weeks to go.

None of the Missouri Valley Schools are big enough to go to 1A football, perhaps BYU will give up their dumb attempt at being independent. Notre Dame is a lost cause at this point trying to get them to play on the same terms as everyone else. There just aren't many good candidates that can be poached from elsewhere while maintaining a strong conference.

I really wish the Pac 16 mega conference thing would have happened because then each side could have played a round robin while also having a title game. Best of both worlds.

[Thanas]

*is confused*

College football seems to be utterly unsurveyable to this German, could someone please summarize the structure to me? I know there are a few bowl games which apparently is the equivalent to the championship titles, but other than that....

[Darth Fanboy]

*is confused*

College football seems to be utterly unsurveyable to this German, could someone please summarize the structure to me? I know there are a few bowl games which apparently is the equivalent to the championship titles, but other than that....

College Football is increasingly incomprehensible to Americans too.

To keep things simple there are several levels of college football which are overseen by the NCAA. The biggest programs are in what is called the Football Bowl Subdivision (formerly known as 1A).

The FBS schools mostly are affiliated with other schools in conferences, which mostly compete with each other outside of a handful of other games. The biggest of these conferences are dubbed BCS conferences and their champions are given automatic spots in the biggest and most lucrative postseason games.

The BCS is a computer system that ranks the teams based on a number of factors, including schedule strength and polls by the Coaches and the Media. The BCS bowls make a lot of money. The top two BCS rated teams compete for the national championship. Some of the other bowl games have decent payouts but none really compare. Bowls are not really affiliated with each other and outside of the National Championship game the bowls are just one extra game for participating teams each year. To qualify for a non BCS bowl, a team must win at least six games and finish with a. 500 record. Most agree that there are too many bowl games I would say.

Over the years as TV deals have become increasingly rich, conferences have gone to holding a championship game to bring in more prestige and money. It used to be that champions were determined in round robins where everyone played everyone over the course of a season, but as conferences grew this became impossible. A conferences needs a minimum of 12 teams to host a conference championship game, because two divisions within the conferences of at least six teams are required.

Recently two of the older conferences added teams by poaching them from other conferences which has caused a big shakeup, and last year there was a lot of speculation that the conferences would have expanded even more causing a huge shakeup in college athletics. Key in this is the University of Texas, whose decision to remain in their conference was the crucial moment last offseason. Texas has a massive fanbase and is developing their own TV network for their athletic programs, and thus went with the sweetest deal for them.

In the end the above system is widely despised but ultimately leople love college football and watch anyway.