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Quote of the Week: "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." - Will Durant, American historian (1885-1981)

MMA Thread 2011 edition: Death of a promotion

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So, which large promotion is dead by Dec 31?
Strikeforce 33%  33%  [ 7 ]
Bellator 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Dream 19%  19%  [ 4 ]
Sengoku 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
K-1 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
UFC (joke option) 38%  38%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 21
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weemadando
PostPosted: 2011-02-14 03:36pm 

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Sriad wrote:
weemadando wrote:
Sriad wrote:
I'm in the camp that would like to see Fedor at 205, but I sure won't blame him if he decides to end it here; he's earned it.


As a 20y/o competing in judo/sambo he competed at 220.

Now as a 35y/o you want him to cut to 205?

And what the hell do you think to happen to Fedor at 205, which is probably Strikeforce's strongest division?


Jumping off the Last Emperor's bandwagon as hard as you can, eh? I know Fedor is a bit endomorphic, but jump to 2:44 and tell me he couldn't find 15 or 20 pounds to lose.

What would happen? Well, I know for a fact that he'd go from being the smallest man in Strikeforce's HW division (okay, 2nd after Herschel Walker who has 1 inch on him but gives up 10 pounds) giving up 10-35 pounds and 6-8 inches height (and more in reach; Silva had an 8" advantage there) to the high-end of LHW, giving up 0 pounds and 0-3 inches height. Maybe I'm just searching for ways for him to go on --and I'd much rather see him bow out than go into a Chuck Liddell Death Spiral-- but it seems to me like you're dismissing the possibility rather too fast.

Edit for a quick cheap shot: You know who else is 35? Anderson Silva.


Actually, you'll find that I was never on the Last Emperor Bandwagon. Not even before the Werdum fight. Was he the greatest Heavyweight in the world for a time? Yes. Was he ever as good as some of the other guys in contention for P4P greatness in the past 4-5 years? No.

My point is that Fedor has never competed at a weight that low and HE HAS NO MOTIVATION TO, even if he could (which is dubious). He's rich, he doesn't need to keep fighting. And if he does, then he can just go back to fighting cans for massive paychecks.

You know something else? People aren't saying that Anderson Silva should cut down to Welterweight...
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Sriad
PostPosted: 2011-02-14 10:52pm 

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weemadando wrote:
Actually, you'll find that I was never on the Last Emperor Bandwagon. Not even before the Werdum fight. Was he the greatest Heavyweight in the world for a time? Yes. Was he ever as good as some of the other guys in contention for P4P greatness in the past 4-5 years? No.


Ah, I do indeed find that. GG making baseless assumptions.

Quote:
...and HE HAS NO MOTIVATION TO...


This, more than anything, is why 205-Fedor is almost certainly wishful thinking. I believe he COULD be dominant in LHW if he worked his ass off, but he doesn't seem to have the passion that'd be needed to fuel the move.

Quote:
You know something else? People aren't saying that Anderson Silva should cut down to Welterweight...


Of course not; he's even considering going UP a weight class... I was only saying that in a "look, here's a 35-year-old indisputably at the top of the sport," though on second thought it's a bit of a red herring given how many more wars Fedor has been through.
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weemadando
PostPosted: 2011-02-14 11:06pm 

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Its also an issue that unlike Anderson, Randy and many others who hit 35 in MMA Fedor seems to have lost his speed/got old HARD. Even looking back to the Brett Rogers fight, the drop off in his hand speed and reaction time is notable.
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aerius
PostPosted: 2011-02-20 04:09pm 

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So apparently Tito cracked his head open again and pulled out of his fight against Rogerio, so now it's Phil Davis vs. Rogerio Noguiera in March. Big step up for Davis and a golden opportunity to prove his game and show what he's made of, should be another awesome fight.
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Sriad
PostPosted: 2011-02-21 06:10pm 

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aerius wrote:
So apparently Tito cracked his head open again and pulled out of his fight against Rogerio, so now it's Phil Davis vs. Rogerio Noguiera in March. Big step up for Davis and a golden opportunity to prove his game and show what he's made of, should be another awesome fight.



For sure. Tito's still a recognized name, but given that he hasn't won a fight since 2006 and most since then were decisions... It looks like a much better fight now.
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weemadando
PostPosted: 2011-02-22 03:56am 

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Ahem.

Strikeforce rumoured to have delayed second set of tournament matches.

BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH.



Also - I attended TFC (Tasmanian Fighting Championship) over the weekend. Instead of judging, I ended up commentating (the full story of this will be posted this week). It was great fun, even though we had NO FUCKING IDEA what was going on (seriously five minutes before the show began the promoter asked me if I could commentate instead of judge). Then there wasn't a second commentator so I grabbed a friend from the audience and the night went on from there.
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weemadando
PostPosted: 2011-02-26 07:26am 

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weemadando
PostPosted: 2011-02-27 03:39am 

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First off, a great quote on that event: "Fitch can't even finish a decision." And my take on it: "I just fought a lightweight to a draw. I DEMAND A TITLE SHOT AGAINST THAT GUY WHO FUCKING TOOLED ME LAST TIME!" Also, there was that moment when you saw BJ decide: "eh, I've got some seminars coming up that I'm making mad bank on this week, can't blow all my gas on this fight."

Bisping was great. It looked like there was some genuine beef there. The hilarious thing, as pointed out by Tomas Rios, was that people loved Rivera beefing it up and building the fight, but as soon as Bisping responds he's the heel. Classic. I thought that they had a winner on their hands though with the illegal knee situation - call it early, Bisping can say he was robbed of the fight because Rivera was too much of a bitch to continue etc and they can build a fight night headline rematch. As it is, I think that getting Bisping, Sonnen, River and Stann all mixed up will lead to awesome antics.

Mang, Sots. It just goes to show that you need wrasslin' to make it in MMA. Those takedown attempts weren't even close. And Siver's striking was murderous for the first round and a half. Ah well, no biggie. By the time they finally finish the Edgar, Maynard, Pettis, Guida debacle at LW, Sots will have built up a 6 fight streak again and be ready for more title contention talk.

Brian Ebersole upsetting Lytle was fantastic. I mean, Ebersole is a dick of the highest level (watch some of his Aus fights, he makes Anderson Silva in Abu Dhabi look like an engaged and professional competitor), but his dickery took Lytle completely out of his game tonight and he destroyed him.

Noke getting the win was good, but he needed to have won that fight as Cammozi was there as a can and nothing more.

Pearson wins an interesting decision.

Ring wins a completely goddamn baffling decision.

And Te Huna fought an amazing 3 minute round. Wait, what? This round is 5 minutes? I guess I'll just roll over, give up my back and then not defend that choke at all. Oh no, wait I better do something. Oh crap, punches hurt. Ah well, let's give in to the choke again.

Zhang's guillotine was sick. Once again I was with a bunch of guys from jits watching the fights and we were all blown away by how fast he locked it on.

Didn't get a chance to see the Perosh fight as I left home just as it started, but it sounds like Blackledge just self-imploded and Perosh grabbed a choke like the BJJ blackbelt that he is.

MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARK HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNT! PRIDE WILL NEVER DIE! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! That has got to be quote of the night: "Somethings in my eye" "That's your eyelid." And then that walk-off KO. FUCKING BRILLIANT. BTW - Mark Hunt just took home a UFC bonus in 2011. Think about it.
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aerius
PostPosted: 2011-02-27 12:33pm 

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weemadando wrote:
Also - I attended TFC (Tasmanian Fighting Championship) over the weekend. Instead of judging, I ended up commentating (the full story of this will be posted this week). It was great fun, even though we had NO FUCKING IDEA what was going on (seriously five minutes before the show began the promoter asked me if I could commentate instead of judge). Then there wasn't a second commentator so I grabbed a friend from the audience and the night went on from there.


Just read your blog post on it, man, that's some quality organizing there and it's a small miracle the whole thing didn't fall to pieces. Also, did you get to use "rape choke" in your commentary somewhere?

The Fitch fight was hard to call, I would've given the decision to Fitch but I can't complain too much about a draw. There's absolutely no doubt who won the 1st & 3rd rounds but the 2nd one could go either way. How much do you want to score clinch work and dirty boxing on the cage and how many points do you want to give to BJ for a takedown and the sub attempt which wasn't even close, and which got reversed with Fitch beating him down for the last minute of the round? 3rd round should've been a 10-8 as well, BJ hasn't been beaten down & broken like that since he ran in the GSP, he was done after that round and he's lucky it was only a 3 round fight.

Sots, yeah, those were some of the saddest takedown attempts I've seen in a long time. Yeah, just grab his leg and hold it in the air and hope the guy falls down, seriously, SWEEP THE LEG! Or at least turn the corner and drive into him for the takedown, don't just stand there holding his leg. It's actually a problem most BJJ guys have, their takedowns come from the clinch or trips from the clinch, they don't have wrestling style takedowns and that leaves a massive hole in their game if their opponents know how to hold the range open.

Ring must've been taking lessons from Leonard Garcia on how to beat Asian fighters. He was clearly beaten for 3 rounds and he somehow pulls off a decision on the scorecards. Got out struck, got taken down and out grappled, comes out with a win. What the fuck?

Mark Hunt, yeah, but he almost got subbed with a Kimura, again. Every time he loses it's a Kimura or armbar and he's lucky that a)Tuchscherer is an idiot and tried to strike with him for over half the round and b)the round ended when it did. Pretty awesome that he got KO of the night, they should set him up with Pat Barry or CroCop next.
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aerius
PostPosted: 2011-02-28 03:07pm 

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From Vitor Belfort's twitter feed:
Quote:
.On my way to the airport going back to vegas I am looking forward to fight bisping on may card I need to fight soon I want to get busy
about 19 hours ago via Twitter for iPhone


Oh please let this be true, the only thing that would be better is putting Bisping in there against Anderson Silva or Shogun.


edit: It gets better, Chael Sonnen calls out Bisping.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=m ... fb9b73e656

Quote:
To: Joe Silva, Matchmaker Extraordinaire, Ultimate Fighting Championship
Re: Spitsbing & his tainted victory

Joe:

If you get a chance to talk with him, please mention to your idiot-in-residence Michael Spitsbing it’ll be a little tougher to knee ME in the head when I’m charging at him like a runaway train and mincing him through the fence like a boiled potato, should we ever have the pleasure of each other’s company for a few (VERY few) moments in the Octagon.

Oh; and I’d suggest to him being a little careful about spitting on any of MY cornermen, since any one of them can beat him up as badly as I can. Thanks ever so much.
Hope all is well.

-Chael Sonnen


Man, if Rivera's antics had Bisping that upset, wait'll he gets a taste of Chael Sonnen's trashtalk.
He'll be crying by the time he gets to the cage.
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aerius
PostPosted: 2011-03-03 10:29am 

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weemadando wrote:


And it's confirmed. Strikeforce tournament delayed till June If this keeps up and I'm pretty sure it will, you might as well write off the entire tournament.
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weemadando
PostPosted: 2011-03-10 05:29am 

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I know that this ain't twitter but:

Guy coming off two stoppage losses and dropping down a weight division? Yeah give him a title shot. #strikeforcematchmaking

Seriously StrikeForce, its like you want us to make fun of you.
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weemadando
PostPosted: 2011-03-11 06:15am 

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Alright. The poll is officially over.

No one picked Sengoku.

And they are officially dead. Announced it on their website and all apparently.

It's a big day for Japanese MMA though - Shooto anounced that they're moving to a cage and the unified rules.
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weemadando
PostPosted: 2011-03-12 04:09pm 

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WHAT THE FUCK?

Zuffa purchases StrikeForce

No. It's not April 1st. This has actually happened.

Mang.

There's some MMA news this week.
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aerius
PostPosted: 2011-03-12 04:16pm 

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Either I'm high as a kite or I'm still sleeping and having whacked out dream. YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!

I figured Strikeforce would croak after its HW tournament goes to hell and that's when the UFC vultures it the way it did with Pride after their TV deal failed. Why do it now? It does not make sense. What the fuck?
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weemadando
PostPosted: 2011-03-12 04:21pm 

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Watching the interview, it looks like Zuffa just fucking money-hatted Strikeforce and then decided to make them their bitches.

"It's business as usual, we still won't co-promote. Even if we own them." They're even keeping Scott Coker. I think that Zuffa has confirmed that they're as dickish as the Mars Attacks! aliens with this kind of move.

Edit - I want to see the video of Vadim's reaction to this at M-1 HQ.
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aerius
PostPosted: 2011-03-12 04:34pm 

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Listening to the interview now. I've never heard so much pure bullshit coming out of Dana's mouth. You got no problems with Coker? Really? You're good buddies with Barnett and Frank Shamrock? GTFO!
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weemadando
PostPosted: 2011-03-12 05:58pm 

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aerius wrote:
Listening to the interview now. I've never heard so much pure bullshit coming out of Dana's mouth. You got no problems with Coker? Really? You're good buddies with Barnett and Frank Shamrock? GTFO!


I think that the saddest news is that they're keeping the commentary team.

And like I said, they're keeping all these guys around just because like a cat, they're playing with their food.

I fully expect Dana to shove Coker out at a presser to read a statement saying that the SF HWGP prize is now a six figure UFC contract.

SUPERDICKERY.

*edit* Also - greatest reaction to this yet. From Bloody Elbow comments:
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Sriad
PostPosted: 2011-03-12 07:20pm 

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Crazy shit.

aerius wrote:
Either I'm high as a kite or I'm still sleeping and having whacked out dream. YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!

I figured Strikeforce would croak after its HW tournament goes to hell and that's when the UFC vultures it the way it did with Pride after their TV deal failed. Why do it now? It does not make sense. What the fuck?


I'm guessing that their thought is something along these lines:

"We're going to acquire their assets eventually. If we wait it'll be cheaper, but we're watching the HW tournament go off the rails right now. Showtime will probably nurse the organization along until their contract expires, and the more Strikeforce suffers the less valuable our eventual acquisition will be. By acting now we can immediately start cross-promoting events and generate buzz for fighters with the casual fans who only pay attention to UFC events. And, in the unlikely event that we keep Strikeforce intact, the brand won't be a wreck."
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weemadando
PostPosted: 2011-03-20 11:13pm 

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Fuck man.

Jon Jones.

Light Heavyweight Champion.

After making Shogun tap to strikes (watch the replay of the fight finish when Shogun get's dropped).

Fuck. Ing. Hell. That man is a beast.

I was at least expecting that match to be at least somewhat competitive, but Shogun just had nothing for him anywhere.
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aerius
PostPosted: 2011-03-20 11:31pm 

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And you called it, Jon Jones was trying to stomp kick Shogun in the knees every time he tried to close the distance. Impressive win, but it's my opinion that we didn't see a 100% Shogun in this fight, not that I really think 2005 GP Shogun could've won the fight. Shogun was slower and heavier on his feet from the very start, he didn't have the crispness and snap that he did in the Liddell and Machida fights. Then after he got drilled with the spinning elbow and knees against the fence it was pretty much over. The speed that Jones has is fucking ridiculous.

On the bright side, Dana White said CroCop ain't fighting in the UFC anymore, thank god, I don't want to see him fight again. In even better news, Rashad Evans is the next Jon Jones victim. I can't wait to see him do the stanky leg again.
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weemadando
PostPosted: 2011-03-21 12:13am 

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aerius wrote:
And you called it, Jon Jones was trying to stomp kick Shogun in the knees every time he tried to close the distance. Impressive win, but it's my opinion that we didn't see a 100% Shogun in this fight, not that I really think 2005 GP Shogun could've won the fight. Shogun was slower and heavier on his feet from the very start, he didn't have the crispness and snap that he did in the Liddell and Machida fights. Then after he got drilled with the spinning elbow and knees against the fence it was pretty much over. The speed that Jones has is fucking ridiculous.


I don't think we've seen a 100% Shogun ever since his first surgery. Knee surgeries in other pro sports are: "Oh shit, will this guy ever play again" territory, in MMA for some reason, people tend to forget that.

Quote:
On the bright side, Dana White said CroCop ain't fighting in the UFC anymore, thank god, I don't want to see him fight again. In even better news, Rashad Evans is the next Jon Jones victim. I can't wait to see him do the stanky leg again.


Rashad has also apparently split from Greg Jackson and Grudge, whether or not it's permanent or just for this fight I don't know.
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Block
PostPosted: 2011-03-21 12:37am 

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weemadando wrote:
aerius wrote:
And you called it, Jon Jones was trying to stomp kick Shogun in the knees every time he tried to close the distance. Impressive win, but it's my opinion that we didn't see a 100% Shogun in this fight, not that I really think 2005 GP Shogun could've won the fight. Shogun was slower and heavier on his feet from the very start, he didn't have the crispness and snap that he did in the Liddell and Machida fights. Then after he got drilled with the spinning elbow and knees against the fence it was pretty much over. The speed that Jones has is fucking ridiculous.


I don't think we've seen a 100% Shogun ever since his first surgery. Knee surgeries in other pro sports are: "Oh shit, will this guy ever play again" territory, in MMA for some reason, people tend to forget that.


That hasn't been true for 15 years. Usually now it means you'll need about a year and a half to get back to where you were before the injury, but they're very very rarely career ending anymore.
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weemadando
PostPosted: 2011-03-21 12:45am 

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Block wrote:
weemadando wrote:
aerius wrote:
And you called it, Jon Jones was trying to stomp kick Shogun in the knees every time he tried to close the distance. Impressive win, but it's my opinion that we didn't see a 100% Shogun in this fight, not that I really think 2005 GP Shogun could've won the fight. Shogun was slower and heavier on his feet from the very start, he didn't have the crispness and snap that he did in the Liddell and Machida fights. Then after he got drilled with the spinning elbow and knees against the fence it was pretty much over. The speed that Jones has is fucking ridiculous.


I don't think we've seen a 100% Shogun ever since his first surgery. Knee surgeries in other pro sports are: "Oh shit, will this guy ever play again" territory, in MMA for some reason, people tend to forget that.


That hasn't been true for 15 years. Usually now it means you'll need about a year and a half to get back to where you were before the injury, but they're very very rarely career ending anymore.


But how many guys have had the same explosiveness and ability post surgery? Close, sure, but it's not all there. And the mental side, confidence in your knees to hold up to the stress - that's always going to be a big factor.
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Edward Yee
PostPosted: 2011-03-21 02:50am 

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weemadando wrote:
Rashad has also apparently split from Greg Jackson and Grudge, whether or not it's permanent or just for this fight I don't know.
By all public accounts it's permanent, with Rashad Evans originally saying "we r still coo!" but then blaming Jackson for bringing "Jones on board a while back against my wishes" and not having Evans' best interests.

Last edited by Edward Yee on 2011-03-22 04:44pm, edited 1 time in total.
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