Bayonets, Blades and Spearhead info

[Enigma]

My father in law has three bayonets, a folding blade, a dagger and a spear head but I need some info on them including a ballpark value.

Here's the Link

He's got what looks like a civil war era bayonet, a Simson & Son Suhl bayonet with a crown and the letter M underneath it stamped on the hilt and the spine of the blade along with other engravings on the blade spine, and a Siegfried Waffen, E.Pack & Sohne Solingen bayonet.

What rifles are they attached two and for what country (other than the Civil war era bayonet. )?

What would be a ballpark figure for their value?

Also he's got a dagger with no engravings as to who made it and he has a huge ass folding blade. A pocket knife on steroids. The blade itself I think is about 18 inches. The design of the blade makes me think of Indian in origin. There's some engraving along the blade but I cannot make it out.

Lastly there is the spear head. Nice looking and heavier than I thought a spear head would be. The shaft was cut off but it looked like it was bamboo?

I'm more interested on what they are than the actual value but if you do it would be great. Thanks.

[Norade]

I have no idea, but the pictures are awesome. I just wanted to say thanks for sharing.

[Enigma]

For the oldest bayonet that I have appears to be a Hall socket Bayonet. Pre civil war? Can anyone confirm?

The other large bayonet I found turned out to be a Seitengewehr 98/05 Bayonet. Date of acceptance was 1915 and the German State of issue was Prussia and Wurttemberg. Again am I correct? What would be the value of this bayonet?

[The_Saint]

The Simpson & Co bayonet is a 1915 manufactured, German Seitengewehr Model 1898/05 "Butcher" bayonet for the K98 Rifle (termed Butcher due to the shape of the blade). The marking on the quillion is a crown over a W (for Kaiser Wilhelm). Rough valuation at US$80-100

The Siegfried Waffen Bayonet is a WW2 German private purchase Dress bayonet (Walking Out Bayonet) made by Ernst Pack & Sohne of Solingen. Design is a 98 Kurtz (basically a slightly modified 'prettier' version of an issue bayonet). Not designed to fit any rifle. Guesstimate from picture says it has the 10 inch blade (as opposed to the 8 inch "carbine" blade).
The scabbard could possibly be (hard to tell from the picture) an issue scabbard (as opposed to the dress scabbard that it belongs with), would need a better photo of the top third of the scabbard. Rough valuation US$120

The socket bayonet doesn't appear to have a locking catch and therefore could be as early as revolutionary war. Could also be a "local pattern" Civil war era bayonet. Civil War Man might be able to better identify it.

I wouldn't advise acting on the valuations (they're basically an ebay average), haven't seen a real 98 Kurtz dress bayonet for sale for while (there's oodles of fakes about but then there's oodles of fakes of everything on ebay). No idea on the non-military stuff... the Spear point looks somewhat "modern" and probably just for decoration. The "dagger" as you put it looks like with a clean up it would make a nice dressing knife (for hunting) and I can't think of anything to say about the folder.

[LaCroix]

I might be mistaken, but the Spearhead reminds me of the type 'lancer' units used around 1900.
Look

I would also say the kind of wear on the point indicates that it was in use...

[Patrick Ogaard]

The folding blade looks like some kind of navaja, the old signature Spanish folding blade. Of course, that just means it could have been made anytime since the late 1400s, anyplace where Spain held sway.

[Patrick Ogaard]

The dagger looks like a Pesh Kabz, a style that used to be common to Persia, northern India, and even parts of Turkey.

[Enigma]

The Simpson & Co bayonet is a 1915 manufactured, German Seitengewehr Model 1898/05 "Butcher" bayonet for the K98 Rifle (termed Butcher due to the shape of the blade). The marking on the quillion is a crown over a W (for Kaiser Wilhelm). Rough valuation at US$80-100

The Siegfried Waffen Bayonet is a WW2 German private purchase Dress bayonet (Walking Out Bayonet) made by Ernst Pack & Sohne of Solingen. Design is a 98 Kurtz (basically a slightly modified 'prettier' version of an issue bayonet). Not designed to fit any rifle. Guesstimate from picture says it has the 10 inch blade (as opposed to the 8 inch "carbine" blade).
The scabbard could possibly be (hard to tell from the picture) an issue scabbard (as opposed to the dress scabbard that it belongs with), would need a better photo of the top third of the scabbard. Rough valuation US$120

The socket bayonet doesn't appear to have a locking catch and therefore could be as early as revolutionary war. Could also be a "local pattern" Civil war era bayonet. Civil War Man might be able to better identify it.

I wouldn't advise acting on the valuations (they're basically an ebay average), haven't seen a real 98 Kurtz dress bayonet for sale for while (there's oodles of fakes about but then there's oodles of fakes of everything on ebay). No idea on the non-military stuff... the Spear point looks somewhat "modern" and probably just for decoration. The "dagger" as you put it looks like with a clean up it would make a nice dressing knife (for hunting) and I can't think of anything to say about the folder.

I've placed all three bayonets on ebay so I hope to get something out of it. As for the folding knife. It isn't a knife because if you unfold it, it is longer than the Seitengewehr 98/05 bayonet. Unless I'm planning to use it to dress an elephant it is useless for hunting.

[The_Saint]

As I said there's no guarantee on the valuation.

Looking at your ebay listing, just a reminder the Dress bayonet "bayonet model" is "KS/98" it's not related to the K98 rifle and is in fact not meant to fit a rifle at all (just be worn on a belt).

Any other questions on military stabby things just ask

[LaCroix]

I missed the comment about the bamboo shaft - this means it was definitely a lance from the British lancers... No other army used bamboo lances. Too bad the end cap is missing, it would have given more hints as if it was military or recreational.

The blade seems to have been resharpened several times, and it is most probably not to be used in pig-sticking, since it's too slim and misses the cross-bar to prevent too deep penetration.

[Enigma]

As I said there's no guarantee on the valuation.

Looking at your ebay listing, just a reminder the Dress bayonet "bayonet model" is "KS/98" it's not related to the K98 rifle and is in fact not meant to fit a rifle at all (just be worn on a belt).

Any other questions on military stabby things just ask

Yeah, that's why I put (KS/98?) in the listing because I wasn't sure. I'm hoping it would reach the same or close to it as the other dress bayonet that someone has up for bidding.

[The_Saint]

The spear point doesn't appear to be a British Commonwealth lance tip. (No guarantee, it just doesn't look anything like what I know).

Compare with picture and picture, that's a replica to a standard design. Yours appears to be two sided, whereas British Commonwealth lance heads were typically three sided with either flat (our replica) or slightly fluted sides (as in LaCroix' image).

The would be rangoon cane to nitpick.

[LaCroix]

I believe his blade was once fluted, but got this shape by being nicked and resharpened often.

Without the end cap, it is not sure weather this was military or civil. It might have been used in pig sticking or tent pegging.

[Enigma]

I believe his blade was once fluted, but got this shape by being nicked and resharpened often.

Without the end cap, it is not sure weather this was military or civil. It might have been used in pig sticking or tent pegging.

It was never used when my father in law's late father first bought it. None of the weapons listed here were used. In fact, I think early on after leaving the air force he dipped the blades (with the exception of the folding blade) in some type of thick grease and it stayed that way for about 50 years or so.

On a side note my father in law's late father was in a buying spree when he was in the U.S. Force (from some time during the late stage in WW2 to the early fifties). Both in the States and in England he'd buy a whole bunch of old items from weapons (civilian shotguns no military firearms) to coins to whatever he thought would have value over time. Both my wife's grandparents were hoarders of items they deemed would be of value and the grandmother passed it down to my father in law and so far he has made a few thousand off them.