The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

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The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by IRG CommandoJoe »

Source.

Build the Enterprise website.
Nancy Atkinson wrote:In Star Trek lore, the first Starship Enterprise will be built by the year 2245. But today, an engineer has proposed — and outlined in meticulous detail — building a full-sized, ion-powered version of the Enterprise complete with 1G of gravity on board, and says it could be done with current technology, within 20 years.
"We have the technological reach to build the first generation of the spaceship known as the USS Enterprise — so let's do it," writes the curator of the Build The Enterprise website, who goes by the name of BTE Dan.
This "Gen1" Enterprise could get to Mars in 90 days, to the moon in three, and "could hop from planet to planet dropping off robotic probes of all sorts en masse — rovers, special-built planes and satellites,” BTE Dan says.
Complete with conceptual designs, ship specs, a funding schedule and almost every other imaginable detail, the BTE website was launched just this week and covers almost every aspect of how the project could be done. This Enterprise would be built entirely in space, have a rotating gravity section inside of the saucer, and be similar in size with the same look as the USS Enterprise that we know from classic "Star Trek."
“It ends up that this ship configuration is quite functional,” writes BTE Dan, even though his design moves a few parts around for better performance with today’s technology. This version of the Enterprise would be three things in one: a spaceship, a space station and a spaceport. A thousand people can be on board at once — either as crew members or as adventurous visitors.
While the ship will not travel at warp speed, with an ion propulsion engine powered by a 1.5GW nuclear reactor, it can travel at a constant acceleration so that the ship can easily get to key points of interest in our solar system. Three additional nuclear reactors would create all of the electricity needed for operation of the ship.
The saucer section would be a 0.3-mile-diameter (536-meter-diameter) rotating, magnetically suspended gravity wheel that would create 1G of gravity.
The first assignments for the Enterprise would have the ship serving as a space station and spaceport, but then go on to missions to the moon, Mars, Venus, various asteroids and even Europa, where the ship's laser would be used not for combat but for cutting through the moon's icy crust to enable a probe to descend to the ocean below.
Of course, like all spaceships today, the big "if" for such an effort would be getting Congress to provide NASA the funding to do a huge 20-year project. But BTE Dan has that all worked out, and between tax increases and spreading out budget cuts to areas like defense, health and human services, housing and urban development, education and energy, the cuts to areas of discretionary spending are not large, and the tax increases could be small.
"These changes to spending and taxes will not sink the republic," says the website. "In fact, these will barely be noticed. It’s amazing that a program as fantastic as the building a fleet of USS Enterprise spaceships can be done with so little impact."
BTE Dan adds that "the only obstacles to us doing it are the limitations we place on our collective imagination." His proposal says that NASA could still receive funding for the science, astronomy and robotic missions it currently undertakes.
But he proposes not just one Enterprise-class ship, but multiple ships, one of which can be built every 33 years — once per generation — giving three new ships per century. "Each will be more advanced than the prior one. Older ships can be continually upgraded over several generations until they are eventually decommissioned."
BTE Dan, who did not respond to emails, lists himself as a systems engineer and electrical engineer who has worked at a Fortune 500 company for the past 30 years.
The website includes a blog, a forum and a Q&A section, where BTE Dan answers the question, "What if someone can prove that building the Gen1 Enterprise is beyond our technological reach?"
Answer: "If someone can convince me that it is not technically possible (ignoring political and funding issues), then I will state on the BuildTheEnterprise site that I have been found to be wrong. In that case, building the first Enterprise will have to wait for, say, another half century. But I don’t think that anyone will be able to convince me it can’t be done. My position is that we can — and should — immediately start working on it.”
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by kc8tbe »

Yes, we can build the first Enterprise in 20 years... sans warp factor 2 drive. I don't suppose it will be visiting many M-class planets other than this one.
The website includes a blog, a forum and a Q&A section, where BTE Dan answers the question, "What if someone can prove that building the Gen1 Enterprise is beyond our technological reach?"
Answer: "If someone can convince me that it is not technically possible (ignoring political and funding issues), then I will state on the BuildTheEnterprise site that I have been found to be wrong. In that case, building the first Enterprise will have to wait for, say, another half century. But I don’t think that anyone will be able to convince me it can’t be done. My position is that we can — and should — immediately start working on it."
It's not technically possible. We haven't invented faster than light travel yet.

Also, the source depicts a Kirk era enterprise. In that case we'll need shields, phasers, and a transporter too.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Sounds like USS Enterprise in name only. First high endurance spaceship would be a better way to put it.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by Sarevok »

The goal here is not build a spaceship but make a website with an attention grabbing claim and enjoy 15 seconds of fame.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by Lord Zentei »

What's up with the American sci/tech aficionado obsession specifically with Star Trek, anyhow? It's like every time someone invents some new exiting technology, all the media people are ranting "lol, just like on Star Trek". And the sci/tech people do it too. :wtf:
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by PeZook »

Because Star Trek is immensely popular and ingrained into popular culture to a stupendous level?

You might as well ask why English has so many biblical references in it.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by Sarevok »

Star Trek also has been a favorite show for generations of engineers and scientists. As part of something leaving deep impression on people who make modern civilization possible it certainly has a subtle indirect influence on many things we use today.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by Lord Zentei »

OK, I get that it's a popular show, but comparing it to Biblical references? And "a part of something leaving deep impressions on people who make modern civilization possible"? Seriously guys, let's get a grip. I enjoy a good yarn as much as the next person, but there's a time and a place. In particular WRT this thread, that time and place is not when discussing how to spend what would amount to many billions of dollars to move people into space.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by PeZook »

What's the difference? We describe many behaviors, themes, characters, attitudes, words and names via reference to the Bible, greek mythology or classical literature.

So why the hell not Star Trek?
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by K. A. Pital »

Probably a lot of it has to do with the cultural impact of Star Trek. I wouldn't object if someone names their spaceships "Enterprise" or even "Picard", so as long as these spaceships actually do their job.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by Lord Zentei »

^
This particular one seems more designed to appeal to Trek love than to "get the job done", as you say.

PeZook wrote:So why the hell not Star Trek?
Not sure why not; I guess it just pisses me off for some reason. It's perhaps because over-reliance of such analogies skews our perceptions on what is realistic, as seen by the plans in the OP link. And perhaps it's the crypto-religious vibes I get from it.*

* And in that regard your and Sarevok's responses are a case in point; no offense guys. :).
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by K. A. Pital »

Uh... Star Trek is one of the most anti-religious shows (for it's time) that I've seen. I mean... "Everyone's atheist in the future and better off for it" really shows through. On the point of sacrificing utility for the sake of external appearance, that's valid. I'm not sure we can feel ourselves in the shoes of a Kardashev-II or III and just try to build spaceships for aesthetic purposes :lol:

I must say though (and I've been re-watching TNG lately) that Trek is also disturbingly realistic in some points. Touchscreens, warp (Alcubierre-type warp still remains one of the more realistic types of space travel), universal use of technology (if you have transporters that can materialize/dematerialize, you build and make absolutely everything using that technology), huge reliance on computer games for training and so on. When seen from today, it is really interesting how much of that tech sometimes shocks you. I recall something about "solid data storage" on the Enterprise, too, which looked like huge SSD-storage units, though I believe at the time that type of storage wasn't even invented. Now it's one of the most promising data storage techologies.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by Lord Zentei »

Stas Bush wrote:Uh... Star Trek is one of the most anti-religious shows (for it's time) that I've seen. I mean... "Everyone's atheist in the future and better off for it" really shows through.
And this is the great irony. :lol: The Star Trek setting itself is supposedly atheistic and rationalistic, but the vibes I get from its more diehard fans are disturbingly crypto-religious.
Stas Bush wrote:On the point of sacrificing utility for the sake of external appearance, that's valid. I'm not sure we can feel ourselves in the shoes of a Kardashev-II or III and just try to build spaceships for aesthetic purposes :lol:
Indeed. Space travel is facing enough budget problems already, we don't need to splash it. :) I'm not even sure that manned space travel is the way to go, though that prospect does leave me feeling a little disappointed.
Stas Bush wrote:I must say though (and I've been re-watching TNG lately) that Trek is also disturbingly realistic in some points. Touchscreens, warp (Alcubierre-type warp still remains one of the more realistic types of space travel), universal use of technology (if you have transporters that can materialize/dematerialize, you build and make absolutely everything using that technology), huge reliance on computer games for training and so on. When seen from today, it is really interesting how much of that tech sometimes shocks you. I recall something about "solid data storage" on the Enterprise, too, which looked like huge SSD-storage units, though I believe at the time that type of storage wasn't even invented. Now it's one of the most promising data storage techologies.
Realistic? Come on. Star Trek is NOT realistic by any sensible measure, nor were its more important ideas devised by Roddenberry & co (though it's sometimes claimed the show "popularized" those ideas, which isn't really true either).

Besides, you can always ascribe credit post-hoc, and generously interpret stuff on the show as being represented in later inventions, and inventors and discoverers can go "lol star trek" in their naming conventions (as opposed to "lol <insert TV show>). For example, I recall the recently discovered Homo Floresiensis being described as "hobbits" by various people, including scientists. Sigh.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by Lord Zentei »

Destructionator XIII wrote:I pray four times a day (once for each of the great prophets related to us through the holy scriptures: THE GOSPEL OF KIRK, THE BOOK OF PICARD, THE CANON OF THE SISKO, and THE REVELATION OF JANEWAY) while facing Utopia Plantia for the day the Starship Enterprise arrives at Earth, carrying Captain Picard, who will lead us into a world of truth, justice, and wonder.
I knew it. :shock:
Destructionator XIII wrote:Though, the biggest thing that worried me about the BTE plan is that giant reactor. Can we cool it in space? I'm skeptical that ion drives could run at that kind of power too.

It's a kickass idea, but twenty years is very optimistic, even with unlimited funding.
Nuclear reactors for space travel is going to be a necessity if we're going to do anything in style, I'm afraid. The public outcry against nuclear power is going to be a big hurdle, more so than cooling - especially with stuff like the Challenger and Columbia disasters in the back of people's minds.

In any case, 50 years is a more realistic target (same as with fusion, lol).
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by K. A. Pital »

Zentei wrote:I'm not even sure that manned space travel is the way to go, though that prospect does leave me feeling a little disappointed.
In an earlier thread where we discussed interplanetary travel I presumed human presence to be extremely limited since machines are just so much better at... surviving, yup.
Zentei wrote:Realistic? Come on.
I meant to say certain elements were realistic, not the show itself or its plotlines. By elements I meant the way the utilize their technology. And I'm not sure Rodenberry should get much credit for anything except that annoying shitpiece Wesley Crusher, it was the designers working on the starship tech, etc. who probably are to thank for the spaceship interiors, touchscreen panels and so on.

But I'm seriously not sure you can dispute that the control elements they use in ST: TNG are, in fact, touchscreens. I doubt there were many buttons there at all, unlike many other shows at the time.

Oh, and I love our resident avatar of Holy Data. :D
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by K. A. Pital »

^ Based on the prior discussion here in SLAM, little if anything can beat properly designed solar in the Mercury-Ceres range. It is once you go to Jovian and transjovian missions, problems with speed arise and you'd need something else.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by Lord Zentei »

Yeah, it was both the outer solar system as well as large scale transport I was worried about. Also: for raw speed, nuclear is hard to beat, and limiting exposure to radiation is crucial for ship crews.

I'll agree to solar being optimal for low- to mid-bulk cargo missions. Or solar sails. I'm a sucker for solar sails.



PS: D13 - I noticed that you didn't mention the EVANGELIUM OF ARCHER. Or was that book declared heretical? :lol:
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by Lord Zentei »

Destructionator XIII wrote:For speed, it is more about size than specific tech. A solar powered electric drive can be better than a nuclear one if the solar power plant has less mass for the same power output, which is probable for near tech in the inner system.
I haven't yet seen large scale solar electrics that can beat the nukes for heavy loads, though I have admittedly not been following more recent developments. You got links for that?

Of course, with large enough area, you can ramp up the power output impressively, but you'll eventually run into (a) engineering problems for large scale sheets of materials, and (b) mass-per-surface-area limits, in which case solar sails might be better.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by K. A. Pital »

This very recent thread had plenty of discussion on the matter.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

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Lord Zentei wrote: I haven't yet seen large scale solar electrics that can beat the nukes for heavy loads, though I have admittedly not been following more recent developments. You got links for that?
Have nukes actually progressed beyond the old Project Orion blue prints though? There's been a lot of movement against nukes.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by K. A. Pital »

Destructionator XIII wrote:Holy shit, 10 kW/kg is better than I imagined to even be reasonable. The one I read (don't have the link anymore; I read it back in 2008 or so) was 1 kW/kg, which I considered spectacular.
If you're reading carefully, these were used just as an example. Their properties (including organic nature) would make it hard to utilize them in space. However, considering even 1kW/kg or 1kW/10kg is enough to start planning realistic solar ship deployments.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by PeZook »

Solar panels have the undeniable advantage of not producing waste heat ; While heat from a nuclear reactor can be used to warm the spacecraft, damage to the cooling system can be totally catastrophic in an environment without ready access to outside sources of cooling water/air: even a reactor that's shut down still produces lots of heat which you will have to radiate away.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by Lord Zentei »

Zinegata wrote:
Lord Zentei wrote: I haven't yet seen large scale solar electrics that can beat the nukes for heavy loads, though I have admittedly not been following more recent developments. You got links for that?
Have nukes actually progressed beyond the old Project Orion blue prints though? There's been a lot of movement against nukes.
Yes, there has been a lot of negativity lately; though I was thinking more of nuclear-electrics or something along those lines, not nuclear pulse propulsion.
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by Sea Skimmer »

PeZook wrote:Solar panels have the undeniable advantage of not producing waste heat ; While heat from a nuclear reactor can be used to warm the spacecraft, damage to the cooling system can be totally catastrophic in an environment without ready access to outside sources of cooling water/air: even a reactor that's shut down still produces lots of heat which you will have to radiate away.
Sure, but if you use solar panels you will never be able to explore all the planets, they just don't provide worthwhile power beyond a certain point, IIRC about Uranus distance from the sun. If you had a reactor problem, ejecting the core would work pretty well; then creep home on RTG power.
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Alkaloid
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Re: The Starship Enterprise can be built within 20 years

Post by Alkaloid »

Would it be possible to have a nuclear plant and a backup system and if you run into problems with the nuke plant or its cooling system just go with the old Trek standby and eject the damn thing into space? I'm assuming anything manned and exploring planets is going to be modular and assembled in orbit to avoid having to strap the whole thing to one rocket.
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