Something big

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Re: Something big

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-04-07 09:42pm

Ask Curtis. He invented the concept I think.
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Re: Something big

Postby fractalsponge1 » 2017-04-15 06:17pm

Have had zero time for 3D lately, but here's some recent stuff:

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Re: Something big

Postby Abacus » 2017-04-16 07:25am

Nice work! Good luck with IRL stuff.
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Re: Something big

Postby Crossroads Inc. » 2017-04-16 01:02pm

That is an, interesting, way to mount weapons.
I guess all three turrets can fire forward at the same time. Is that really how the original Thad things?
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Re: Something big

Postby fractalsponge1 » 2017-04-16 01:55pm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:That is an, interesting, way to mount weapons.
I guess all three turrets can fire forward at the same time. Is that really how the original Thad things?


Sort of? It's comics art, so not really clear exactly how the small blisters are laid out on the big one. The general arrangement of blister on giant blister was clear though, so this is my rationalization of it. It's complicated, but it does allow every gun to bear forward and down, which is clearly where the ship orients the main threat axis.

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Re: Something big

Postby Abacus » 2017-04-17 10:15am

I forget, but that thing is pretty much a frigate-class vessel, no?
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Re: Something big

Postby fractalsponge1 » 2017-04-17 10:18am

Abacus wrote:I forget, but that thing is pretty much a frigate-class vessel, no?


It's 3+km long. So easily OT star battlecruiser volume.

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Re: Something big

Postby Abacus » 2017-04-17 01:37pm

fractalsponge1 wrote:
Abacus wrote:I forget, but that thing is pretty much a frigate-class vessel, no?


It's 3+km long. So easily OT star battlecruiser volume.

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*whistle*

Wow, that is big.

By the by, my apologies fractal, where were the stats for the Legator-class again? I think I missed them. Or did you make stats for it at all?
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Re: Something big

Postby Galvatron » 2017-04-25 02:46pm

That ship looks like it might be a relative to the Lucrehulk.

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Re: Something big

Postby Abacus » 2017-04-27 09:06am

Galvatron wrote:That ship looks like it might be a relative to the Lucrehulk.


I'd be surprised if it didn't *inspire* the Lucrehulk.
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Re: Something big

Postby Crazedwraith » 2017-04-27 09:10am

Because it's round?
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Re: Something big

Postby Abacus » 2017-04-28 12:07pm

Crazedwraith wrote:Because it's round?


Not exactly. The ship itself is several millennia old from the OT perspective. I imagine that, before this particular ship was eventually and completely discontinued from construction or use, that it was modified from its military variant to a civilian version. Considering it's size, it's likely that mass transportation of goods became cost-effective. Companies like the Trade Federation would be more than happy to buy used, underpriced military hardware and repurpose it for cheaper, bigger transport. Once they decided to build their own transport ships (ie Lucrehulks), they likely copied most of the design elements of the older ship.

But sure, let's break it down to Occam's Razor: *because it's round*.
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Re: Something big

Postby Weedle McHairybug » 2017-04-29 04:18pm

Lord Revan wrote:Didn't the novelization say that Scarrif had all rejects from imperial military who where more or less utterly imcompetent but too well connected to execute or kick out, granted IIRC that was what Tarkin thought of them so it might not be a 100% unbiased opinion.


Based on some of the statements Krennic made during the Battle of Scarif in the film itself, like sarcastically screaming if the command center staff was blind to the explosions that they had just witnessed before ordering for the deployment of the garrison, Tarkin may be on to something there.

Of course, that begs the question of why the Empire would have extremely incompetent people manning something as important as a security base, especially one that contains the plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, even under the pretense of them being too well connected to either execute or kick out. I mean, that's actually pretty stupid. If anything, something like that would require the base to be manned by those among the Empire's best troops. Must admit, I actually found that odd, and probably one of my few complaints about the film (the only other being Tarkin's inference that the Imperial Senate would join the rebels in droves if the Death Star was exposed publicly, considering that it's extremely unlikely the DS-1's existence would have the Senate go against the Empire realistically. After all, did the Manhattan Project that developed the atomic bombs cause both the House of Representatives and the Senate to defect to the Axis powers in droves? Of course, that being said, that was admittedly also a flaw in A New Hope as well, so I won't exactly blame Rogue One too much for using that flaw since it was originally present in the film.). That said, Rogue One's still better than The Force Awakens any day.

And nice improvement on the Inexpugnable-class Command Ship, Ansel!

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Re: Something big

Postby Darth Tanner » 2017-04-29 06:06pm

did the Manhattan Project that developed the atomic bombs cause both the House of Representatives and the Senate to defect to the Axis


Maybe if the Manhattan project was intended to start wiping out US cities to keep them inline of the literal evil wizard that assumed dictatorship powers and the Axis had been soundly defeated 20 years ago.

, it's likely that mass transportation of goods became cost-effective


Emptying out a custom build battleship would still make it a poor cargo carrier unless SW designs are comically modular in terms of ability to remove structural beams.



Whats the estimate firepower of those big guns, they have to be heavy hitters at that size!
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Re: Something big

Postby Weedle McHairybug » 2017-04-29 09:19pm

Darth Tanner wrote:
did the Manhattan Project that developed the atomic bombs cause both the House of Representatives and the Senate to defect to the Axis


Maybe if the Manhattan project was intended to start wiping out US cities to keep them inline of the literal evil wizard that assumed dictatorship powers and the Axis had been soundly defeated 20 years ago.


Maybe, but then again, realistically, it's unlikely the Empire would use the Death Star against its own people, no matter how brutal it is, despite what the films showed, because it doesn't really play out to reality. Not even the USSR or Mao Zedong's China when they gained nukes used them to blow up their own cities even to put down any rebellious elements, and those practically WERE evil empires in all but name, outranking even the Nazis in terms of sheer vileness and death tolls. If that had any basis in reality, the USSR would have used its nukes to wipe out, say, the town of Tolyatti or Novokuznetsk, for example, or hey, just drop a nuke on Hungary during its revolution in 1956 or East Germany during its uprising in 1953 against any rebellious elements in the Warsaw Pact within Eastern Europe. Or hey, have Mao Zedong blast various peasant communities that revolt against him after 1964, even. And believe me, they had a LOT more nukes than the Empire did with its Death Star, so they were MORE than capable of doing that if they wanted to. Not to mention the Communists both times often using boogeymen about "capitalists" and "Christians" despite largely wiping them out upon taking power. Sorry about this, but it still seems unrealistic, especially when the USSR and Red China, themselves very bloody in how they take people out, did not use nukes to do so, and arguably didn't even NEED nukes or sufficiently high-tech stuff to cause that carnage. They used low grade guns like assault rifles and pistols, and also forced starvations, and sometimes they didn't even need traditional weapons, but just various brutal forms of punishments, but they did not use nukes against their own people, which the Death Star is essentially the Star Wars equivalent of if we are to treat the entire galaxy as essentially being real life Earth.

, it's likely that mass transportation of goods became cost-effective


Emptying out a custom build battleship would still make it a poor cargo carrier unless SW designs are comically modular in terms of ability to remove structural beams.



Whats the estimate firepower of those big guns, they have to be heavy hitters at that size!


Yeah. A custom-build battleship being customized from a cargo carrier is one thing, but the reverse is probably going to pose a lot of difficulties.

Anyways, Fractal, I wonder when you'll post any new images regarding your projects?

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Re: Something big

Postby AniThyng » 2017-04-29 10:49pm

The galactic empire is the dominant superpower in the galaxy where the only threats to it ate internal in the form of the rebellion, while China and the Soviet union still have to be mindful of the impact of thier actions on the policies of the united states, a peer superpower...
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Re: Something big

Postby Lord Revan » 2017-04-30 05:38am

yeah it's vitally important to remember that rebels are "imperial people" , the Galactic Civil War was 100% internal conflict and that's where the analogy with the Manhattan project breaks down as in a civil war loyalities aren't a clear cut as they're when dealing with an external threat, also IIRC the Galactic Empire was never officially at war since the CIS was defeated before it was formed.

All this makes the Death Star very much a different beast then the 1945 atomic bombs. While we can ignore the "wizard" part as IIRC the identity of Darth Sideous wasn't publically known (in fact was truly known only by a select few) from what I've gathered from rebels, Rogue One and the OT movies Palapatine and the empire wasn't exactly well liked even if few had the guts to oppose them openly, so it wouldn't be odd that there would Senators who were opposed to Palpatine's rule but too afraid of retribution to speak out and the Death Star would be the last straw to them.
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Re: Something big

Postby Weedle McHairybug » 2017-04-30 08:09am

Hmm, fair point, but then again, even there, the Empire hiding the development of the Death Star doesn't make too much sense, since I know a few totalitarian countries and groups that don't even attempt to hide the fact that they're vile people and openly engage in vile, immoral, and illegal behavior, many times not even caring if outside forces are watching. And many of these acts make even the Death Star seem merciful by comparison (and that's not an easy thing to say, considering what the Death Star did). Like, for example, Vladimir Lenin, especially according to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEzejRk ... e=youtu.be (and as an aside, I don't promote anti-Semitism in any form, this video is simply to showcase how horrific Lenin and his ilk were). Heck, the Viet Cong (aka, the real-life inspiration for the Rebel Alliance if George Lucas and Walter Murch is to be believed), as another example, often violated any forms of war laws and human rights towards even their own fellow citizens, not to mention their POWs because they viewed them as "borgeoise" and often did it openly in front of their enemies and allies alike during the Vietnam War, and not only are they not hated for it, they if anything, ended up rooted by a vocal minority and it gets taught to this day, or at least are excused for it.

And since someone mentioned Rebels, all I can say is, if the Empire can be defeated easily in that show, why are they still afraid of the Empire. It sort of makes the opening of A New Hope make little sense, to be honest. I personally found Scar from The Lion King to be a bit more realistic regarding dictators consolidating power, to be honest.

Anyways, Fractal, will await more designs and updates from you.

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Re: Something big

Postby Patroklos » 2017-04-30 09:46am

Lord Revan wrote: Rogue One and the OT movies Palapatine and the empire wasn't exactly well liked even if few had the guts to oppose them openly, so it wouldn't be odd that there would Senators who were opposed to Palpatine's rule but too afraid of retribution to speak out and the Death Star would be the last straw to them.


Part of this is selection bias and part of it is GL and follow on writers want to have their cake and eat it too. Generally, and specifically in the cases of the states GL used for inspiration, modern dictatorships don't form or exist very long unless they have at least majority but often overwhelming domestic support. Sure they crush the opposition but such brutality is possible because so much of the citizenry is cool with it, or at least indifferent. The writers want to have it both ways were they get the Rebels as the lone voice of justice in a galaxy of terror but also have the overt support of basically every citizen we meet. If that were truly the case, that the Empire is truly reviled from its founding by basically everyone, the Empire as we know it wouldn't have lasted 10 minutes.

It should be remembered that the rise of Palpantine in the broad stokes, even if the details were schlocky in the movies, was to show that he took power via the normal mechanisms of the Republic. Whatever subterfuge he engaged in was COVERT, to the point that mere days before he became Emperor even the Jedi didn't know about it. If the Jedi couldn't figure out the support he enjoyed was predicated on illegal manipulation, why would any normal John S. Citizen know any better? He was voted in by Senators who presumably were themselves enjoying the confidence of whomever voted them into power. It was very much a boil the frog by degrees approach. If the result of all of that was that everyone hated him as a usurper it robs the narrative of most of its power. It also begs the question of why Palpantine went through all that trouble when he could have just mustered the CIS forces we see him do anyway, not have a ready made army to counter it, and not orchestrate a stalemate by playing the sides against each other. He would have just steamrolled the Republic outright and ruled the Republic as a conquered territory without all the trappings or tradition and government kept around at least until ANH. The answer to that is what a megalomaniac wants. They want to be loved and adored and accepted as legitimate.

No, the point is Palpantine manipulated the citizens into loving him and giving him the power he wields. The majority of the galaxy, and especially the core worlds (the vast majority of the citizenry) have to be authentically loyal to him or the whole thing boils down to a cartoon. Palpantine would be just a Skeletor, his side and deeds having just as much depth.

That also begs the further question of why bother with the DS when it runs directly counter to his strategy thus far. This is even worse with the stupidity of making the DS either planned or under construction before the Empire existed. That's Han shoots second orders of narrative destruction. The simple answer is all of this an empire state building of filler piled on top of a simple hero story that can't really support it.

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Re: Something big

Postby Weedle McHairybug » 2017-04-30 07:55pm

I agree with several of your points, Patroklos (and for the record, GL at least was primarily basing the Rebels on the Vietcong, who also had been treated as both by the media.), though I must mention that, other than maybe Nixon, none of the figures/states mentioned actually were elected (even Hitler, who came the closest barring Nixon to matching what George Lucas envisioned, was merely appointed to chancellorship, not actually elected into it at first, and in the only actual election he participated in, he actually did very dirty politics to ensure his retaining power, including voter fraud. To be honest, I'm actually a bit surprised that Lucas and the follow on writers didn't even think to have Palpatine win via voter fraud, since there have been plenty a dictator who did win via those means. In fact, Stalin once said "It's not the people who vote that count. It's the people who count the votes."). For Caesar, he wasn't elected at all, but just had his consul title appointed to him after leading his army across the Rubricon to cow the corrupt senate to do so. For Napoleon, he just took control after the people justifiably were horrified by Robespierre's reign of terror upon executing Robespierre (and that whole mess started after Marat got killed by the Girondins, and THAT whole mess started when they killed Louis XVI). In fact, Robespierre when taking over the country DID use the people's love for him to take power. How else did he and his ilk take over France with their help?

So far as Skeletor, haven't really followed He-Man, but to be honest, I thought people like Skeletor or other cartoon villains were a bit more realistic largely because there have in fact been various real-life villains who made it perfectly clear that they are evil, know full well they are evil, and actually take pride about them being evil. Like, for example, the Marquis de Sade, and more specifically his quote "Imperious, choleric, irascible, extreme in everything, with a dissolute imagination the like of which has never been seen, atheistic to the point of fanaticism, there you have me in a nutshell, and kill me again or take me as I am, for I shall not change." And done right, even so-called "two-bit" villains can be genuinely scary and realistic. Now, that being said, if said villains were like, say, Gaston from the 1991 Beauty and the Beast film, especially how his Gaston Reprise was handled, I definitely would not think they were well-written villains.

I actually almost wonder whether Palpatine was himself conceived by the Force just as Anakin was, especially in light with both his not being detected by either the Jedi or, if the Darth Plaugeis novel is to be believed, even the Sith, his immense Force potential, and his dad expressing enough doubts that Palpatine was even his son at all that he made him take a paternity test once.

Anyways, to get it back on track, let's hope Fractal brings out more projects in the near future, as well as finishing up the current projects,

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Re: Something big

Postby AniThyng » 2017-04-30 08:29pm

The main concern I'd think is not the loyalty of core worlds like coruscant and kuat that toe the imperial line totally, but core worlds like alderaan and corellia, which have a liberal/independent streak. The Death Star was clearly never intended to intimidate backwater sectors that could be locked down with star destroyers, it was to ensure corellia or even kuat would never think they could ever threaten the regime and hide behind their shields and sector fleets.
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Re: Something big

Postby evillejedi » 2017-04-30 11:50pm

AniThyng agreed; I think that Tarkin even backs up that the Death star is a threat to everyone when he says that 'the rest of the systems will fall in line'. The Empire could within a day put enough resources in orbit to dehabitate any world not protected by a planetary shield, or send storm troopers to the surface and eventually enforce whatever regime was necessary. The more recent novels have made it clear that even up to ANH the Empire was still establishing administrative control in many sectors through take overs and coercion. Arguably highly independent sectors like Corellia were probably negotiating like crazy to maintain local control, maneuvering Loyal Corellians into the Academies and defense fleets. Also, historically everything points to the Republic being very loosely affiliated through the senate, with most worlds being essentially self ruled and defended. The Empire was establishing a framework of central control that was obviously being actively challenged by the senators and non-imperial planetary governors for the intervening decades, hence the formation of an organized Rebellion and Palpatine having to dissolve the senate. I think the DeathStar once revealed was decidedly a realistic threat to anyone including loyal systems. Its first use, even if covered up in the galactic news cycle would spread like wildfire through the political establishment and make a lot of people much more reluctant to support any resistance and speak out, it really only needed to be secret until it worked just to protect it from sabotage. Once used it provides a massive chilling effect, and makes it very easy to spot the active insurgents as they will become much more active to try to thwart it.

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Re: Something big

Postby Lord Revan » 2017-05-01 07:13am

the thing to remember is that the Empire had existed for 19-20 years when Battle of Yavin happend, I suspect that the Empire was reasonbly popular in the wake of the Clone Wars when the (metaphorical) wounds that conflict and the time of internal strife that preceeded it were fresh in the memory of the people and the Galactic Empire was still largely unknown (due to being so new), but when it started to become clear that it was a case of "meet the new boss, same as the old" as far as corruption went and people had even less theoretical ways to complain about it, the empire lost popularity so that by 1-0 BBY you had this large amount of people who don't exactly like the Empire but are too scared to actually oppose it openly.
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Re: Something big

Postby Abacus » 2017-05-10 11:11am

"Does the walker choose the path, or the path the walker?"

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Re: Something big

Postby fractalsponge1 » 2017-05-10 12:33pm



Abuse of scale!


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