ST vs Doom

Doomriser · Post by **Doomriser** » 2002-07-21 06:47pm

The Enterprise-E is transporting 6000 troops to establish a garrison near Dominion space when it is sucked into a wormhole and heavily damaged. The crew manages to get everyone into the saucer section, which crash lands at the entrance to what is the Phobos base from Doom I, Episode I. The "difficulty setting" is "I'm too young to die!" The saucer is beyond repair, but the crew, soldiers, and armoury is intact. Tricorders indicate that there is a teleport home at an anomaly on the other side of the moon, but they will have to make their way through the various buildings of the Phobos moon base first. Can they make it?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-21 07:15pm

Are these Red-Shirts or Ripped Red-Shirts?

Anyone in particular we know amoung them?

Doomriser · Post by **Doomriser** » 2002-07-21 07:28pm

What's the difference between the two types of redshirts? I am using the term generically. In fact, the troops are the same ones we see in "Seige of AR-558." The Ent-E has the entire TNG cast aboard.

Here's the way I see things:1.

Terrain

There are plenty of ways for red/yellow shirts to die, even in the original Doom. Pools of toxic waste, exploding barrels, heights, and heavy doors will take their toll of ensigns.

2. Let's take a look at how the monsters will stack up

Enemies

Zombie - even his popgun should take out a redshirt with every hit though one blast from a phaser set to kill will slay him

Shotgun Sargeant - He might be able to take down 2-3 redshirts per shot but 1 phaser blast will still kill him

Imp - Its fireballs will sweep through ranks of ensigns and it should be able to take at least one phaser hit (unless its set to power-wasting maximum).

Demon - The demons are at a disadvantage as a result of their lack of ranged weapons. They may be able to take 2 or even three hits from a phaser set to kill, though, so in packs they are an extreme threat.

Invisible Demon - This thing should be able to munch through clouds of ensigns while tricorders are frantically scanning

Barons of Hell - their threat level is reduced since phasers set to maximum-kill should be able to take them down. But not before dozens of ensigns die.

3. Intangibles

The layout of the area is very complex and if the Starfleet personnel follow standard doctrine and split up, they will get lost

It is also a very scary, depressing place. Ensigns might start giving them self-inflicted injuries in the mistaken hope that it will mean a ticket home

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-21 08:17pm

Hmm is Kirk Avaible?

Doomriser · Post by **Doomriser** » 2002-07-21 08:36pm

This is the Enterprise-E. Kirk is not avaliable.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-21 08:43pm

Not even for Consolting?

Ok I predict 80% Red-Shirt Loses and Picard is injured and Riker Rips his shirt afterwhich the outcome is forgon

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2002-07-21 09:15pm

The demons, zombies, and what not would have a HUGE psycological effect on the red shirts, a horrible alien that will try to kill you regardless of losses or in the case of some of the lesser demons, futility of his attacks. That asidethe demons will run amuck through the ensigns rending them limb-for-limb until finally one of them makes the mistake of ripping rikers shirt, in which case he will grab to phaser pistols and proceed to thomp the living crap out of every demon including the final boss, and then will say something cool-roll credits.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2002-07-21 10:36pm

As a fan of DOOM and pro-SW debator, I'm going to go against my instincts and say that the Red Shirts pull it off with less than 25% losses. My reasons:

1) The easy level of DOOM is, well, easy. The lack of monsters and their weakness makes them fairly easy targets. The only truly dangerous monsters on the entire moon are the Barons of Hell, and there are only two of them.

2) Virtually all combat will take place within the confines of the facility, with ranges of 30 meters or less. Therefor the baddies have no range advantage.

3) Redshirts apparently have no psyche to be affected. They invariably die in great numbers to a variety of causes, but they never hesitate to enter the combat zone.

4) The tactics needed to succeed are easily within the reach of these idiots. All Picard has to do is throw bodies forwards until he reaches his objective.

With 6000 redshirts, Picard would have to supremely fuck up in order to lose.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-07-21 11:13pm

I agree completely.

Also, part of the moral hit they'd take is greatly nullified by their vast numbers. Its harder to be scared and creeped out when surrounded by 100 comrades.

Doomriser · Post by **Doomriser** » 2002-07-22 12:46pm

Okay, I agree with Pablo. Let's make it more realistic then. Doom was clearly designed to be played on the "Ultra Violence" mode as lesser difficulty settings have obvious missing monsters and the 'nightmare' mode is considered to be unfair by the game designers. And as we have never seen the E-E carry 6000 troops, let's just make it the crew of 885. Also, Doom was originally designed as a 3 episode set, with the teleport to Earth and the end of Episode 3. So, given the same situation as explained in the title post, can the E-E crew with full food, medical, and equipment supplies salvaged from the saucer make it through hell and back from EpI to 3 on "Ultra-Violence"?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2002-07-22 09:40pm

Doomriser wrote:So, given the same situation as explained in the title post, can the E-E crew with full food, medical, and equipment supplies salvaged from the saucer make it through hell and back from EpI to 3 on "Ultra-Violence"?

No. They probably make it as far as the Cyberdemon before they are forced to retreat. Then the Cyberdemon ends all attempt to move further, because he is too fucking hardass. Because the Redshirts can't move like the DOOM Marine (he can run 40+ mph in any direction while firing with pinpoint accuracy!), they get wasted by the rocket fire.

Mr. B · Post by **Mr. B** » 2002-07-22 09:46pm

Doomriser wrote: Okay, I agree with Pablo. Let's make it more realistic then. Doom was clearly designed to be played on the "Ultra Violence" mode as lesser difficulty settings have obvious missing monsters and the 'nightmare' mode is considered to be unfair by the game designers. And as we have never seen the E-E carry 6000 troops, let's just make it the crew of 885. Also, Doom was originally designed as a 3 episode set, with the teleport to Earth and the end of Episode 3. So, given the same situation as explained in the title post, can the E-E crew with full food, medical, and equipment supplies salvaged from the saucer make it through hell and back from EpI to 3 on "Ultra-Violence"?

In Yesterday's Enterprise the Enterprise carried 5000 troops in the alternate universe.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2002-07-22 09:52pm

Mr. B wrote:In Yesterday's Enterprise the Enterprise carried 5000 troops in the alternate universe.

Alternate Timeline is the key phrase there. The Enterprise in that episode also sported a pulse phaser cannon that could destroy Klingon warships in a single shot. But we don't add that to the regular E-D's capabilities either. The normal timeline E-E carries the crew, plus their families, plus science gear and all manner of useless crap that honestly has no place on a warship. What a bunch of morons.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-07-22 09:59pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
Doomriser wrote:So, given the same situation as explained in the title post, can the E-E crew with full food, medical, and equipment supplies salvaged from the saucer make it through hell and back from EpI to 3 on "Ultra-Violence"?
No. They probably make it as far as the Cyberdemon before they are forced to retreat. Then the Cyberdemon ends all attempt to move further, because he is too fucking hardass. Because the Redshirts can't move like the DOOM Marine (he can run 40+ mph in any direction while firing with pinpoint accuracy!), they get wasted by the rocket fire.

I tend to agree.

Doomriser · Post by **Doomriser** » 2002-07-23 10:53am

Yes, the Galaxy-class probably can carry 5000 troops. But the Galaxy-class is larger than the Sovereign-class Enterprise-E. Heck, the Ambassador-class is larger than the E-E IIRC. So the E-E cannot carry as much as 5000 troops.

Doomriser · Post by **Doomriser** » 2002-07-23 11:00am

Pablo Sanchez wrote: No. They probably make it as far as the Cyberdemon before they are forced to retreat. Then the Cyberdemon ends all attempt to move further, because he is too fucking hardass. Because the Redshirts can't move like the DOOM Marine (he can run 40+ mph in any direction while firing with pinpoint accuracy!), they get wasted by the rocket fire.

But the "Deimos Anomaly" level was practically designed for Federation troops. Its completely duck and cover! If the surviving Starfleet troops have enough sense to surround the Cyberdemon, coming from 2 different directions, they should be able to whittle away at it with phaser fire. Of course they will take at least 50% casualties but he is the hardest or second hardest baddie in that whole place.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2002-07-23 07:30pm

Doomriser wrote:But the "Deimos Anomaly" level was practically designed for Federation troops. Its completely duck and cover! If the surviving Starfleet troops have enough sense to surround the Cyberdemon, coming from 2 different directions, they should be able to whittle away at it with phaser fire. Of course they will take at least 50% casualties but he is the hardest or second hardest baddie in that whole place.

Ah, but you forget that they already had to fight their way through two entire episodes to get to him. They've probably taken severe casualties by that time, and even the relatively unshakeable Red Shirt morale will be cracking. Unless you use the 5000 man figure, they'll lose. But if they've got that many men, they might be able to make it home.

And since we're on Ultraviolence setting, you also have a fair number of lost-souls circling the arena. This will prevent the Reddies from being too comfortable behind the pillars.

Doomriser · Post by **Doomriser** » 2002-07-23 10:40pm

I'm going to go play the game with no-running and a plasma rifle on infinite ammo mode to simulate a SF soldier. I'll give you the results later.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-07-23 10:45pm

This will be interesting, *looks at his post count* wait a minute....that's 150 posts! YAY!