Starcraft Terrans vs. Star Trek Federation

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lgot
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Post by lgot »

This is silly...
In the end of the first Starcraft Game Story, both Raynor and Protoss together had to destroy the overmind in the planet and they could not even leave the area to do it, making everyone thinks they would be dead, which means they do not have ways to cause massive damage to the overlord from the distance. At least they never showed it...

I think people still overstimate the size of the ships...in the SC page description of size, A Battlecruiser have the same scale (Large) of a Goliath or a Tank. They do not length kilometers or anything like that.

And still, The scourges damage are not very powerfull, how would they beat the SF shields ?

And They can say wenever they want to, the protoss are superior to humans. Its not logical to think otherwise when you just remember that Protoss can be zerg/human technology and powers easily. This is not a good strategy for gaming (its good to catch one or another, since zergs always help the number) because the game speed factor but for a storyline ?
You know when a Trekkie come to claim that a Borg can assimilate all technology he meets and etc to say that a Borg would end knowing all Empire's technology ? That is a bad argument, but for the dark templar it works: they can capture it and the protoss of that area would have acess to that technology (they would still have the industrial problem to think). That is fair and square, A Power.
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Post by starfury »

[And still, The scourges damage are not very powerfull, how would they beat the SF shields ? ]

a few scourages were able to down norad II. and terran battlecruisers were at least as large as a GSC, the UED fleet seen at the end of the brood war terran campigan as fairly large,dozens of battlecruisers. Scourages also did pretty well against shielded protoss ships.

still the feds may outnumber the terran fleets.
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Post by OOM94539 »

I think people still overstimate the size of the ships...in the SC page description of size, A Battlecruiser have the same scale (Large) of a Goliath or a Tank. They do not length kilometers or anything like that.
The large/medium/small sizes are simply for gameplay. The best way to scale a Terran Battlecruiser would be to first scale the Wraith Fighters, then use the Wraith Fighters to scale the UED Battlecruisers at the end Brood Wars cinematic, where you get a close up of a fleet of Battlecruisers w/ hanger bays in their 'hammer heads' that store several wraiths.
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Post by OOM94539 »

Oh yes, and I forgot to mention, an easy way to tell the Battlecruisers are much larger than Goliaths is that in the cinematic where they show Alexi Stukov's funeral, you see several Goliaths lined up behind marines in a Battlcruiser, and it's pretty clear that the room they're in is very, very small when compared to the rest of the ship.
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Post by lgot »

But then, You assume the Scourges take down the ships in the SC universe. This does not prove they will be sucessful against any other ship in any other universe since they all have different level of defense.
My point still:
The most potent weapons is SC - Yamato gun for example, is unable to kill in one shot anything short of large building, a overmind, another large ship like a battlecruiser or anything like this.
If I am not mistaken, ST ships most potent weapons are able to do much large damage to a superficie of a planet, right ? (I wonnt even go that a SW ships do much more, therefore making this combat a piece of cake of the empire also). They can stand the damage they cause as well, which may means ,the ST firepower and defence are superior to those of SC.
its just possible that a scourge will just hit the shield of a ST ship and do not weaken this enough to cause any futher damage...

OOM94539:

Yeah, I know that they build up for gameplay the BC in that size. But the industrial production speed that SC have is also a gameplay feature and even so it was used to point a vantage for the SC side. If they use the gameplay features (the logical ones, It would be ilogical to use the gameplay features like they cannt shot walking ^^) for advantages, it is just fair to use it when its not a advantage, right ?

There is other scenes with the Battlecruiser, first one in the Broad Wars for terrans (The BC flying over a mariner), so if anyone want to calculate it, for me its fine.
I just said they are in the same scale, not in the same size also. I know they are bigger (they are not the same size in the game as well), but I just doubt the logic of BC being large as Destroyers like its pointed here...They are big, but cannt be that big.
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Post by Anarchist Bunny »

Igot, have you not read a damn thing I've written. The Yamato Cannon was scaled down for gameplay. At the end of the first Terran Campaign in SC not Brood Wars, we see it blasting the absolute fuck out of another ship. Also it was one continuous huge beam. People who think Protoss are so much more powerful than Terrans haven't played a map with limeted minerals before. Thats the problem with Protoss technology, it's requires massive amounts of energy to warp in. Which presents some huge problems with protoss being able to build from the last mission to when they meet up with the Dark Templar. Carriers in a 1 on 1 fight with battle cruiser will lose due to the fact that BC armor > 1 interceptor shot. Not to mention the Yamato Gun. Also in game ranges cannot be taken into effect because it has been proven that gameplay sizes and ranges aren't the same as the cutscenes. The Son of Korhol wraith, I think it was the first cutscene, not counting the opening one, of SC fired a missile from a much longer distance than in the game.
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Post by lgot »

anarchistbunny;

You seem to be the one that have not ready what i wrote...
For two posts i asked you to describe the scene and only now you said this "taking hell of the ship"...this is the description of a scene ?
Which ship ? How do they that ? What was happening before. Then I can talk about this.
The lack of resources change how the fact that a Dark Templar is able to control all other races making a Protoss able to reach the power of all others ?
And of course, If you noticed in any of my previous post, I said a Battlecruiser is more powerfull than a Carrier. So we agre. The Battlecruiser will get damage, but with one Yamato shot, he will kill the carrier first.
And even the cutscenes, the range of SC is not that much raized. Mostly still fire from short ranges. after all in all cutscenes the victim shot saw what shot them.
But if you like, this argument can get more interesting if you bring the list of cutscenes and what happens, that will help me to understand your view since i have not here in my computer the cutscenes to view it again.
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Post by OOM94539 »

If you people read the Starcraft Manual, you'll see that it states clearly that the Yamato Cannon is basically the explosion from a nuclear bomb, focused into a single beam of energy through magnetics.

You never see Wraiths fire missiles in cutscenes. Instead, they use triple burst lasers, and at a pretty good range also.

The scene where the Yamato Cannon destroys a BC in one shot is that last Terran Cinematic of the orginal SC campaign. However, the only thing worth garnering from this is the charging and firing method of the Yamato Cannon (i.e. it's a single beam). Since the cinematic was of a propaganda-like file, it's more than likely that the destroyed battlecruiser was crippled already.

I doubt Scourge will be able to do much against ST ships, since their shields would probablly incinerate the scourge on impact, taking most of their punch out since there would be no catalyst and explosion.

According to SD.net, photon torpedos are equal to large nuclear fusion weapons in terms of destructive power. Since the Yamato Cannon is simply a focused nuclear fusion weapon, it is probablly somewhere along the ST photon torpedos damage ratings, so ST shields could probablly hold up as well against a Yamato Cannon as they can against a Photon Torp (meaning, the effectiveness of the Yamato Cannon depends on the presence of main characters aboard the ST ship ;)). However, I'm going on an assumption here, but I'm guessing it's a safe one, Battlecruisers most likely have a large array of smaller laser cannons (as opposed to the 2 that are stated in game), each capable of dealing 1/5 the damage of a Yamato Cannon (allowing for a margin of error since this is data from a game, and balancing has to be considered), so a Battlecruiser should be able to stand up to a Federation Vessel to some degree, especially if it has its load of Wraith Fighters, which at the very least will force the Federation ship to deal with multiple targets. In the end, the Federation may win a majority of the space battles, but the Terrans will take the ground and build up new manufacturing, which will make the largest difference.

But hey, this is something interesting. A battle the federation might be able to win. :o
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Post by Darth Garden Gnome »

lgot wrote:anarchistbunny;

And even the cutscenes, the range of SC is not that much raized. Mostly still fire from short ranges. after all in all cutscenes the victim shot saw what shot them.
Your saying SC ships fire from short ranges? Dont make me laugh, we all know UFP ships have to be close enough for you to jump from one ship to anothr before they start shooting, so dont even say they fire at short ranges!
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Post by lgot »

The scene where the Yamato Cannon destroys a BC in one shot is that last Terran Cinematic of the orginal SC campaign. However, the only thing worth garnering from this is the charging and firing method of the Yamato Cannon (i.e. it's a single beam). Since the cinematic was of a propaganda-like file, it's more than likely that the destroyed battlecruiser was crippled already.
Ah, that is something at least...
What I ever meant here in this argument is against the exageration of SC power to beat ST. People said the game severely weakneed from the cutscene...
Even if I do not go with your argument, and think the BC shoot was not damaged, I hardly see that as a severely weakneed game version. After all in the game, the yamato gun almost do it! It is needed a slighty increase of power to a yamato destroy a BC in one shot, not some severly power up.
Does it still compare with ST firepower ? (Of course I can say like you that the BC shot already had damage, then the BC shot did the same effect they do in a game, where you can blow a damaged BC with one Yamato shot)...

You there can be something more interesting if we put SC universe as members of Republic or Empire...Humans aside, Zerg and Protoss...Imagine how would be a trained Jedi Protoss and a Sith Zerg (Since somehow they can be this way, Zergs are close to the dark side when Protoss not).

Your saying SC ships fire from short ranges? Dont make me laugh, we all know UFP ships have to be close enough for you to jump from one ship to anothr before they start shooting, so dont even say they fire at short ranges!
Sorry, Darth Gnome, I did not understand you well...This goes about ST range how ?
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