Avengers 2 Force Substitution

[biostem]

I've got 2 slightly related scenarios:

1. Instead of containing the AI that would eventually become Ultron, the Mind Stone instead turned out to contain GLaDOS from the Portal games, (assume she has access to all the Ultron versions shown in the movie + the enemy units found in Portal 1 & 2, including the portal gun & gels).

2. Instead of Ultron, the Mind Stone contained Skynet, (who has access to all the Utron units + the Terminators and other units through Terminator 4).

[The Romulan Republic]

I don't know much about GLaDOS, but Skynet would basically be like Ultron except it would be less funny and it would skip the pretence of trying to save the world and jump immediately to genocide.

But giving Skynet additional combat units from its reality could make a big difference. Granted, a typical Terminator is probably less dangerous in combat than an Ultron bot aside from infiltration (it can't fly for one thing), but its more troops and Skynet also has tank-like units and aircraft.

Edit: Also, Skynet won't give a shit about making itself a human body as far as I know.

Actually, I think Skynet's the tougher foe. It will go straight to all out war with no time to prepare for the Avengers, will have a full military instead of just infantry bots at its disposal, and will not have its mind read by Scarlett Witch, meaning she and Quicksilver will likely never join the Avengers (but also likely not get recruited to fight against them). The only way that Skynet would be weaker is if its inferior enough to Ultron that Jarvis can take it out at the outset.

Second edit: Also, it just occurred to me that no Ultron's human body means no Vision. Shit, that's going to hurt the Avengers.

[Napoleon the Clown]

GLaDOS would be, um... Nasty. She wouldn't go for anything nearly so flashy as buying a fuckload of vibranium. Instead she would go for the far more subtle deadly neurotoxin gas. And I never thought I'd call buying a fuckload of nerve gas subtle. She would then flood the Avenger Tower with deadly neurotoxin gas. She might spare Tony and make him do all kinds of tests, or she might not. Hard to say. I'm not sure if any of the Avengers would be able to survive being in a building that has been flooded by deadly neurotoxin gas. Hulk has some amount of chance, considering tear gas didn't seem to be that big an issue in The Incredible Hulk. No way to say how Thor would do, we don't know how his nerves behave relative to humans. Steve, Hawkeye, and Black Widow are all utterly fucked, and Tony's only chance is if he gets into his suit before exposure. We simply don't know if she's interested in the world outside Aperture Laboratories, so it's tough to say what happens next. Most likely, she has the Avengers Tower converted into a testing facility. It's technically possible that she would just start forcing the Avengers to "test" rather than killing them. Having stable portal tech would be a massive game changer. Were she to not instantly murder everyone with deadly neurotoxin gas, she might be content playing Tony's AI. Granted, Tony wouldn't let an obviously insane AI have access to deadly neurotoxin gas. But she'd probably be able to talk him into letting her "hire" people to "test" the portal tech. He wouldn't be happy to find out these people would all die young...

GLaDOS isn't interested in global conquest. All she wants to do is test. And flood her facility with deadly neurotoxin gas. Her initial actions toward the Avengers are what would complicate things. If she doesn't instantly try and kill them, we likely end up better off in the end. Portal tech would be a huge win, and I'm betting Tony and Bruce could figure out how to scale it up. So long as nobody gives GLaDOS access to deadly neurotoxin gas she'd probably manage to not be homicidal enough to make everyone panic. If she does try to kill them... It depends on if she can get her hands on deadly neurotoxin gas. If she can get it, fair well Avengers. If she cannot, they'll probably just shut her down.

Skynet with the entirety of its army? Earth is fucked. The Avengers have no way of going after that many killer robots spread out over the entire planet. Ultron's plan was fucking stupid and overly complicated. Skynet, on the other hand, is perfectly happy to just crush every military out there outright.

[Mr Bean]

Note Ultron was trying to get the nuke codes because in the far future of the Avengers... we kept those online.
Skynet on the other hand is within the defense system so can launch the nukes at will.

[The Romulan Republic]

Skynet with the entirety of its army? Earth is fucked. The Avengers have no way of going after that many killer robots spread out over the entire planet. Ultron's plan was fucking stupid and overly complicated. Skynet, on the other hand, is perfectly happy to just crush every military out there outright.

I don't know about that. Skynet was being beaten in its own reality by a fairly ragtag (albeit technologically advanced) military that started out very weak.

My guess is that Skynet, like the US government that originally had it, is really good at fighting all out major wars and really shitty at handling insurgencies.

Basically, if Skynet follows its original plan, its a straight slugging match from the start unless Jarvis can shut Skynet down. There is no complicated plan like Ultron's. Just a quick attempt to hack into the nuclear arsenals and, failing that, a massive military onslaught. One that will quickly be met by every superhero on Earth, SHIELD, and every military. Hell, I could even see Hydra temporarily fightin with the good guys against such a common enemy. The big risk then is time travel. Does Skynet bring its time machine with it as part of its forces? And if not, how long will it take to build one? Also, will Skynet immediately resort to time travel or only as a last resort as it did originally?

Question: How quickly does Skynet get to bring in its forces? Do thousands of terminators and armoured vehicles and aircraft simply appear in the middle of the city outside the Avengers' building? Or does Skynet need time to build up its forces?

[Joun_Lord]

Pretty much the above in regards to Skynet. Skynet has some heavy hitters but they are most likely in very limited quantities considering a rag-tag band of freedom fighters kicked Skynets robot balls.

And the number of Terminators is, depending on the source, is also going to be pretty low. Terminators were supposed to not be combat units but infiltrators. The main Skynet combat units were aerial and ground HKs. Terminators were only deployed when something needed.......well terminated, not when something needed fought. They might have been used in some none Terminator roles, like guarding bases and working human derived tech. I can't really see a HK walking a fence or pressing buttons in a control room. But mostly they were non-combat roles. The only reason why Terminators were pushed into combat, such as in Terminator 2's future scene, was desperation. Skynet was losing hard, its defense grid was smashed and humanity was able to engage in open warfare with Skynet on apparently pretty equal terms rather the hiding and scaving. Sending out unskinned Arnie-bots was just Skynet throwing everything to slow down the human advance while it enacted its time travel plan.

But Skynet doesn't need vast armies to win, the vast armies were there for mop up duty after it had thought it had already won. Skynet isn't stupid, it won't just launch waves after wave after wave of killbots into the fray.

It will use its robots to infiltrate, using its super hacking skills to enter the computers of various governments and the Avengers themselves. It will learn and try to obtain tech. Hell it might even reveal itself and act the good guy after seeing the threat of various alien powers and literal gods. It would probably try to use the Avengers and humanity against those threats while building its own power. It might even have a Order 66 type plan if it does use Terminators as infantry, get the Arnie-bots upgraded by Stark tech and have them fighting alongside the Avengers right up until they are no longer useful.

The real wild card for Skynet is Jarvis. Even in a fragmented state he managed to hold off Ultron from getting the nuke launch codes. He might be able to hack Skynet and see that Skynet is an evil motherfucker, maybe erase his ass and take Skynets toys for his own.

Then Tony has Jarvis make a T-1000 sexbot. You know his perverted ass would love fucking a robot that could turn into any woman.

Glados might be a minor threat depending on how insidious she is but I doubt she would want to do any world conquest. That if she even gets the chance to do much damage, I don't recall if she had any super hacking abilities that would make her be able to overpower Jarvis. Most likely after she is released from the mind stone Jarvis would stop her and contain her again.

Probably be looked at by Stark and Banner and they'd fix whatever major malfunction turned her into a psycho AI, which she didn't start out as either part.

[The Romulan Republic]

I think Pepper might have issues with the sexbot idea. And Tony doesn't really seem like the cheating type.

[Joun_Lord]

Its not cheating, its masturbation with toys!!!

[The Romulan Republic]

Now that sort of smart ass loop hole hunting does sound like Tony.

Edit: Of course, that depends on weather the liquid metal terminator is sentient.

[Adam Reynolds]

I think Pepper might have issues with the sexbot idea. And Tony doesn't really seem like the cheating type.

Not to mention that Tony is the type to enjoy the chase. There isn't much of a challenge in dating a robot.

[biostem]

I think Pepper might have issues with the sexbot idea. And Tony doesn't really seem like the cheating type.

Not to mention that Tony is the type to enjoy the chase. There isn't much of a challenge in dating a robot.

More likely, Stark would have a T-1000 as an undercover personal assistant/bodyguard, in that scenario.


I wonder if Skynet would be able to execute a more subtle Hydra-esque long term infiltration and subversion plot, so as to gain access to the weapons it needs to wipe out humanity.

It'd be interesting to see a bunch of Ultron drones flying/running around with portal guns - would make for an interesting fight, (though if we accept the game mechanics, you'd need a bunch of moon dust or portal gel coated surfaces, for that t be effective).

[Tribble]

In the T2 novelization the T-1000 was depicted to be sentient and barely under the allegiance of Skynet. In fact, Skynet deliberately refrained from building the T-1000 for some time because it didn't know if the T-1000 would remain under its control and Skynet believed that the T-1000 was fully capable of single-handily destroying it. It was only at the very end of the war when its defense grid was smashed and Tech-Com was in a position to launch a direct assault on Cheyenne mountain that Skynet went ahead and built the T-1000, since it literally had nothing left to lose at that point. I doubt Jarvis would be capable of controlling the prototypes that were part of Skynet's arsenal, though if he was capable of absorbing Skynet I suppose he might figure out how to build one.

Also, the T1 and T2 novelizations stated that the T-800s were built for combat first, and the ability to infiltrate was a secondary (though very useful) feature. Though I'm sure that at that point in the war Skynet was literally throwing everything it had including the kitchen sink to try and slow down Tech-Com as long as possible.

[Enigma]

In T3, didn't Skynet infiltrate the internet?

[Tribble]

In T3, didn't Skynet infiltrate the internet?

Yes it did, though keep in mind it's in a different timeline than the original.

Which raises a good point: which SKyent are we talking about here? The one from T1-T2, the one from T3 and the one from T4 are all different enough that they kind of have their own strengths and weaknesses.

[NeoGoomba]

The only reason we saw Terminators in any sort of deployed in combat role in the future of T2 was because that was the last battle being depicted, fought basically right at the gate of the time machine chamber. The few HK's and all of the racked Terminators were all Skynet had left at that point. Like Joun_Lord said, the defense grid of that stronghold was smashed, and Skynet emptied its vaults.

That being said, maybe Terminator: Salvation would have been better served if instead of being about...whatever garbage it was trying to show...it depicted the lead up to that last battle. Just how did TechCOM smash those metal motherfuckers, and how did John Connor force SkyNET up against the wall?

[Joun_Lord]

Terminator Salvation would have been better served being about John Conner rather then Jake Sulley.

I kinda liked them showing the Resistance in its infancy and showing Conner's rise to lead the human resistance and meeting his daddy.

The problem with Salvation is they failed on all accounts. The story barely featured Conner, instead focusing on robit John Smith who nobody had ever heard of and nobody gave a flying shit about. The Resistance wasn't some meager scraps of humanity forming together to smash those metal motherfuckers, its a full on military operation with day time raids, air patrols and expending choppers like it was Star Trek Voyager with shuttles. They couldn't even get Conner meeting Kyle, no storming the wire and bodies in furnaces, no hell on earth that showed humanity was near to being gone forever, nope Kyle was in prison for like 15 minutes and somehow Skynet knew about him (whattttttttttttt) and he was rescued in some big showboat helicopter rescue led by Conner's probably racist token black friend who wasn't Terry Crews (and that was a fucking wasted opportunity).

Also perpetually burning fires. Seriously watch some post-apocalyptic movies and notice that in destroyed cities there always seems to be fires burning in some rubble, years after the war and usually well after people vacated the area.


More on topic, yes it would probably help to clarify which Skynet. The bigass mainframe Skynet, the Internet computer virus Skynet, or the pants on head retarded dead people face Skynet.

To repeat a wee bit of what I wrote already because my writing is sexy enough to do twice, if its the Internet Skynet it runs into the same problems as Ultron, it ain't going to be able to nuke spam the world thanks to Jarvis and thats even if Skynet is strong enough to fragment Jarvis. Old school mainframe Skynet might not even know how to work the internet, atleast our modern one. It might overwhelm it. 1997 Internet and computer tech is considerably different from 2015 (I think thats around when Avengers is set) Internet. Plus the technology of the MCU should be considerably ahead of our own, even just Internet tech, from the contributions of super-science Stark Sr and Tony made.

Skynet would figure it out eventually but it would give time for Jarvis or Tony and Bruce to neuter or contain it before it could do anything, or just unplug it if its the mainframe version.

[Purple]

Well yes and no. It's different from an end user standpoint because we got better speed and youtube and facebook and stuff. But from a purely low level standpoint there has not been that much change. Yes, new protocols have been added to handle the new stuff. But most internet traffic still works on stuff from the 70's. A program capable of navigating the internet on a low level in the 90's would do just fine today.

[biostem]

Well, Mainframe Skynet would be severely handicapped, as it would basically be stuck inside the first body it was uploaded to, (never having demonstrated any sort of ability to transfer itself to different hardware). This scenario would also be a bit different, as any drones it created would basically be independent, possibly only relaying information back to Skynet like how a regular soldier would send reports back to HQ. I think the distributed/virus Skynet, from T3, would probably be a better fit to how Ultron was portrayed...

[Kojiro]

The problem I see for the Avengers, as far as Skynet goes, is that Skynet will not try to eliminate the Avengers with fisticuffs. I could easily see the Iron Legion walk out to the party announcing some sort of warning. When the Avengers get close (or not even that close) the high explosives Stark uses in his mini missiles and anti tank weapons detonate. Most of them would be killed instantly, Hulk would flee into the city to cause who knows what damage and Thor would be left in the rubble wondering his next move. Which is probably going to be getting a call from someone to tell him that an expressionless muscle head in leather rocked up, asked Jane Foster her name and the executed her.

On that topic, I wonder if Thor could have called down the Bifrost to destroy Ultron's metorite? When used on Jotunheim it seemed to cause massive damage almost instantly.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well consider that Loki is apparently sitting on the throne of Asgard right now, I wouldn't count on them for help.

[Gaidin]

Well consider that Loki is apparently sitting on the throne of Asgard right now, I wouldn't count on them for help.

That's all depending on how good a con Loki wants to play. If he wants to look the part(remember, he played Odin), then he'll probably help.

[The Romulan Republic]

I seem to recall Odin not be terribly fond of humans in the second Thor film. He's also adverse to needless war, as seen in the first film.

I wouldn't bet on Odin helping even if he was in power.

[Gaidin]

Then Loki seemed to be doing more, or at least the same, as Odin if Agents of SHIELD is any indication and the deployment of single agents to Earth to handle small problems are any indication. He's, shall we say, maintaining a cover?

[The Romulan Republic]

Maybe. But either way, the Avengers can't necessarily count on help from Asgard.

And Skynet really isn't a problem one Asgardian can tackle. Loki or Odin would have to deploy troops in force.

[Kojiro]

I seem to recall Odin not be terribly fond of humans in the second Thor film. He's also adverse to needless war, as seen in the first film.

I wouldn't bet on Odin helping even if he was in power.

I think you might be reading more into his words than intended. I'd argue he's not fond of Jane Foster as a match for Thor and is trying to remind his son that a common human is no fit consort for the crown prince of Asgard. The point he presses is precisely how short her lifespan is, though obviously there are other reasons a king may want an only child to marry suitably.

But Odin is Protector of the Nine Realms and Midgard falls under his jurisdiction. He's gone to war for us mortals before and if we grant that Ultron's rocks fall everyone dies scenario works it most certainly qualifies as a threat to the realm. He'd be duty bound to intervene.