The Galactic Empire invade the Star Gate Universe

[NecronLord]

Palpatine's powers of prediction are nebulous and ill defined, making them hard to examine for a vs.

"Maybe"

[FaxModem1]

So, I could see the Galactic Empire wiping the floor with the initial Jaffa armies and navies, only to suddenly have their forces start acting erratically and dying off through accidents and internal conflicts(due to brainwashing, goa'uld, and hidden assassins), until higher leadership gets called in, tries to find the problem, with the Empire deciding that contact with the enemy causes infection, or doesn't pick up on it and the entire Imperial war effort becomes a huge quagmire for the Star Wars galaxy.

Would that make the Empire pull out or would they thrust more resources into conquering the Milky Way, giving the Rebellion more free reign in their home galaxy?

[NecronLord]

I'd not be betting on it to be honest. It's counting on a long shot. That's why I like the replicator plan; it's basically a plan we've seen used in canon, and one that is based on a logistics advantage. Anything else is a long shot that can be foiled at any time.

[FaxModem1]

True, there is still the possibility that the Goa'uld, while possessing an Imperial human, can nab as much of Imperial technology as it wants and upgrade Goa'uld technology the same way Anubis did for his ships when it came to fighting Asgard and Tollan.

[gigabytelord]

Thinking about a Goa'uld possessing an imperial and quite literally "worming" it's way up the chain of command. Wasn't there was an episode of SGA in which a Goa'uld made it all the way to Atlantis while possessing an air force captain? Yes the little fucker was eventually caught but only after causing a lot of trouble and this was an infiltration job against a enemy who was completely aware of what they could do and took active/constant measures to prevent just such a thing from happening. I don't think we should discount the Goa'uld infiltration route just yet.

[NecronLord]

Thinking about a Goa'uld possessing an imperial and quite literally "worming" it's way up the chain of command. Wasn't there was an episode of SGA in which a Goa'uld made it all the way to Atlantis while possessing an air force captain? Yes the little fucker was eventually caught but only after causing a lot of trouble and this was an infiltration job against a enemy who was completely aware of what they could do and took active/constant measures to prevent just such a thing from happening. I don't think we should discount the Goa'uld infiltration route just yet.

Colonel, yes.

He got pretty close to destroying Atlantis by re-writing its power control software, too, he had allies in the Trust though, too, who were also goa'uld, there was quite some time infiltrating before they were able to do that.

Of course, the Empire's in for a change of leadership the moment they capture or buy a sarcophagus, or Darth Vader gets to speak to a Prior.



All Hail Emperor Skywalker.

I mean, fuck, Darth Vader might actually convert to Origin just for that.

[Battlegrinder]

What are the weaknesses or vulnerabilities of the replicators? Would droid-poppers work against them?

The version in Ark of Truth had no weakness tough projectile weapons (this is not a weakness - similar projectile weapons will kill ordinary soldiers too) were effective. Earlier versions were vulnerable to a special weapon created by the Ancients and adaped by the Asgard (the weapon used in the clip the page back).

Zat'nik'tels can disable large machines in a single hit (SG1 episode 1969, one shot disables a titan missile's engine) with some kind of electrical effect in the same manner droid poppers do. Replicators are impervious to zat'nik'tels.

I think that the "sic replicators on 'em" tactic has promise, but their are a couple elements about the replicators that haven't been brought up.

1. Replicators haven't been proved to be immune to energy weapons. They can shrug off a few hits from a staff weapon, yes, but that's hardly proof that sustained fire, or fire from a powerful enough weapon, won't be able to overwhelm whatever mechanism they use to absorb incoming directed energy attacks.

I'm not saying that they are. Being resistant to small arms fire and being flat out immune to damage are different things, and the latter is impossible. They are however, very durable and extremely numerous, and their industry is incredible.

If someone says blasters are more powerful than staff weapons, they can of course demonstrate that for us.

2. Replicator strength is based in part on what the replicator is made off. The one that tanked staff weapon fire was built from Asgarian materials, while the ones built on a captured Russian submarine corroded and shorted out in saltwater. Given how badly most SW alloys fair when taking blaster fire, replicators built from those materials might share that weakness. On the other hand, if the bugs get their claws on some Mandalorian iron or Cortosis...

No replicator has ever been shown to be destroyed by an energy weapon, even when created from say, goa'uld materials. The onus would be on you to prove that they can be destroyed by blasters.

3. And finally, regarding human-form replicators infiltrating the Imperial Navy.....I doubt it. The Empire's been dealing with highly capable shapeshifters for a long time, I think they're up to finding out if a given crew member is a robot or not.

I counter this with a canon example; by the use of shadow holograms (not unlike the things used by the foothold aliens in stargate, in fact) to impersonate senate security troopers, a group of bounty hunters were able to take The Supreme Chancellor hostage in The Clone Wars. There was clearly no routine use of personal scanning shown.

What (canon, not legends) evidence have you that such a regime of regular scanning has been introduced since?

I don't think I got my point across correctly. I'm not saying that replicators aren't as immune to energy weapons as is thought, or that ones made of SW materials will be more vulnerable to energy weapons, or that the Empire has a anti-shapeshifter screening system set up at every base, starship, government building, etc. I'm just trying to say that the aspects I originally pointed out might ones that are being overlooked.

For example, it might be easier for the Empire to modify their blasters than to switch to KE weapons. I know 40k has high power lasgun cells that put out more damage in trade for wear on the lasgun, the Empire might be able to do something similar. Speaking of anti-replicator tactics, I don't think send war droids up against the replicators (as has been suggested before) would be a good idea, as it gives the replicators access to additional raw materials. Organic troops might be a better choice.

I don't have any evidence to support the existence of regular shapeshifter screenings, but I wasn't intending to imply that there was one. I'm inclined to believe that an initial wave of implanted Imperials/Human form replicators could be very effective. What I was trying to say was that once the Empire figures out what's going on, they likely have the technological ability to set up such a process, and future infiltration efforts will be far less effective.

I'd also point out that Human-form replicators aren't usually used for infiltration, in part due to their rarity, but also because they seem to take on a command role within the replicators, and presumably view infiltration work as less important. Given that they require neutronium (likely not the same neutronium that makes up neutron stars) as part of their construction, and SW has large amounts of a possibility-similar material, the rarity factor might change as the invasion progesses.

[Battlegrinder]

True, there is still the possibility that the Goa'uld, while possessing an Imperial human, can nab as much of Imperial technology as it wants and upgrade Goa'uld technology the same way Anubis did for his ships when it came to fighting Asgard and Tollan.

I don't think that's likely. Even assuming that the technology is compatible (and since Goa'uld tech is naqauda based, it likely isn't) Given the difference in combat technology between the Goa'uld and the Empire, the Goa'uld likely be overrun well before any reverse engineering efforts could take place. Especially since only a handful of system lords have been shown to possess the kind of R&D facilities (or any R&D facilities) that could take on that kind of work, and they'd still have to implement any changes into their industrial infrastructure, which is incredibly primitive and likely can't produce the kind of highly refined technology that SW runs on.

Thinking about a Goa'uld possessing an imperial and quite literally "worming" it's way up the chain of command. Wasn't there was an episode of SGA in which a Goa'uld made it all the way to Atlantis while possessing an air force captain? Yes the little fucker was eventually caught but only after causing a lot of trouble and this was an infiltration job against a enemy who was completely aware of what they could do and took active/constant measures to prevent just such a thing from happening. I don't think we should discount the Goa'uld infiltration route just yet.

If by "worming" you mean "infest a guy, get into the room with his CO, jump hosts, kill previous host so he doesn't blow your cover, repeat" I have a feeling that the Imp's might notice that a string of their officers is dropping dead in very obvious pattern. Given that NID was more or less completely controlled by the Goa'uld at one point, it's entirely possible that agents within that organization arraigned for Caldwell's takeover, rather than him being infested via the SGC.

[NecronLord]

Well what you say is broadly accurate, but only really provides complications in view of the replicators' ability to travel widely and reproduce anywhere there's unguarded technology. The Star Wars galaxy abounds with such places.

[NecronLord]

I don't think that's likely. Even assuming that the technology is compatible (and since Goa'uld tech is naqauda based, it likely isn't) Given the difference in combat technology between the Goa'uld and the Empire, the Goa'uld likely be overrun well before any reverse engineering efforts could take place. Especially since only a handful of system lords have been shown to possess the kind of R&D facilities (or any R&D facilities)

Myth; there's no sign in the canon the goa'uld are bad at research: Nirrti does it, Pelops does it, Ba'al does it, Cronus' researcher does it, Hathor does it, Nerus does it, Athena does it. The earth based characters accuse the goa'uld of acquiring all their knowledge of technology by parasitism (they can do that to the empire too) but it's patently untrue. There are half a dozen goa'uld leaders who engage in legitimate scientific research right there, who I can name off the top of my head.

They are if anything, very scientifically active.

If by "worming" you mean "infest a guy, get into the room with his CO, jump hosts, kill previous host so he doesn't blow your cover, repeat" I have a feeling that the Imp's might notice that a string of their officers is dropping dead in very obvious pattern. Given that NID was more or less completely controlled by the Goa'uld at one point, it's entirely possible that agents within that organization arraigned for Caldwell's takeover, rather than him being infested via the SGC.

That is correct, the Trust implanted it in Caldwell.

On the other hand, in the actual canon (not Legacies) of Star Wars, Imperial officers drop dead all the time without there being any investigation.

At the time of writing, there are five canon sources depicting the Galactic Empire, the three OT films and 2 episodes of Rebels. In that, imperial military personnel are casually executed by their superiors in two of them, and in one more, an officer is nearly executed, and a deleted scene for a fourth shows another near-execution.

Summary, undocumented execution is the common coin of the Imperial military in canon. And no, it's not just Vader.

Imperial military personnel from fleet admirals, down to
(Spoiler for SW Rebels pilot) Spoiler

line stormtroopers

and (spoiler for unaired episode of rebels follows) Spoiler

army cadets, or at least this is very strongly implied

are subject to and receive summary execution. Their deaths are not investigated, the bodies are just cleared away.

[NecronLord]

Anubis also performs scientific tests, as does Thoth, Apophis or Sokar developed cloaking motherships, the list goes on.

[Battlegrinder]

Myth; there's no sign in the canon the goa'uld are bad at research: Nirrti does it, Pelops does it, Ba'al does it, Cronus' researcher does it, Hathor does it, Nerus does it, Athena does it. The earth based characters accuse the goa'uld of acquiring all their knowledge of technology by parasitism (they can do that to the empire too) but it's patently untrue. There are half a dozen goa'uld leaders who engage in legitimate scientific research right there, who I can name off the top of my head.

They are if anything, very scientifically active.[/quote]


I said only a handful of System lords possess the kind of R&D facilities that would be useful. Nirrti was doing genetic research focused on making better hosts (and given that she thought Jonas wasn't human when she examined his DNA, I have my doubts about how scientific her work was).

I think you're right that Sokar had some R&D, and Ba'al and his subordinates really worked at improving his technology, but that's still a fairly small portion of the total System Lords. Apophis used the tech he gained from Sokar, but I don't think really pushed development on his own. And IRCC, Anubis's R&D was focused figuring out how to apply the knowledge he gained when he ascended, not on doing more original research.

On the other hand, in the actual canon (not Legacies) of Star Wars, Imperial officers drop dead all the time without there being any investigation.

At the time of writing, there are five canon sources depicting the Galactic Empire, the three OT films and 2 episodes of Rebels. In that, imperial military personnel are casually executed by their superiors in two of them, and in one more, an officer is nearly executed, and a deleted scene for a fourth shows another near-execution.

Summary, undocumented execution is the common coin of the Imperial military in canon. And no, it's not just Vader.

Imperial military personnel from fleet admirals, down to
(Spoiler for SW Rebels pilot) Spoiler

line stormtroopers

and (spoiler for unaired episode of rebels follows) Spoiler

army cadets, or at least this is very strongly implied

are subject to and receive summary execution. Their deaths are not investigated, the bodies are just cleared away.

I was mostly thinking that the fact that every officer in the chain would be executed one after the other would tip people off, not the fact that they were executed at all. And even then, I'd assume that only officers above a certain rank would be allowed to do so, so the Goa'uld would only be able to jump up the chain after it somehow got into the officer corps from the initial victim, who'd most likely be an enlisted man.

[Vance]

What's your source on sidearm blasters having greater firepower than staff weapons? There's various examples of staff weapons breaking rocks, going right through people, killing from near misses and so on, just as with blasters.

Unlikely, Staff weapons reliably blast people off their feet, just like blasters.

These things may be cumbersome, but they do pack a punch. Until we see numbers for each, I'm going to base my assumptions off 'roughly equal power' because we see broadly equal effects, and therefore presume replicators are able to shrug off blasters.

Staff weapons are blaster-range at least, but they're, well, staff weapons.

Blasters are signifcantly more powerful than staff weapons, I recently completed an article about them here: http://www.galacticempirewars.com/blasters

[Vance]

And from the novelization of Empire:
"The droid had never before encountered a Wampa Ice Creature, its computers advised that the beast best be dealt with expeditiously.

The droid made an internal adjustment to regulate the potency of its laser beam. Less than a moment later the beam was at it's maximum intensity. The machine aimed the laser at the creature, enveloping it in a great flaming and smoking cloud. Seconds later the few remaining particles of the Wampa were swept away by the icy winds.

The smoke disappeared, leaving behind no physical evidence -save for a large depression in the snow - that an Ice Creature had ever been there."

[NecronLord]

Novellizations are no longer canon.

Source

He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align.

Now, with an exciting future filled with new cinematic installments of Star Wars, all aspects of Star Wars storytelling moving forward will be connected. Under Lucasfilm President Kathleen Kennedy’s direction, the company for the first time ever has formed a story group to oversee and coordinate all Star Wars creative development.

“We have an unprecedented slate of new Star Wars entertainment on the horizon,” said Kennedy. “We’re set to bring Star Wars back to the big screen, and continue the adventure through games, books, comics, and new formats that are just emerging. This future of interconnected storytelling will allow fans to explore this galaxy in deeper ways than ever before.”

The canon is the six films, the clone wars TV series, and the new materials produced by the Story Group. Nothing else. Not novels, not ICSes, not the Junior Novellization, not the picture-comic, or the comic, only the films, and the Clone Wars, and the new material.

[Batman]

Not physically doable with a DET weapon to begin with and negated by the very content of the quote-if you dumped enough energy into the Wampa to vaporize it how exactly is there enough snow left locally for there to be the depression the Wampa made? Also, 'great flaming and smoking cloud' sounds a lot more like setting on fire rather than vapourization, with the latter disappearance being technobabble. Not supported by the rest of the canon I'm afraid.
EDIT:was in response to Vance

[RogueIce]

On the other hand, in the actual canon (not Legacies) of Star Wars, Imperial officers drop dead all the time without there being any investigation.

At the time of writing, there are five canon sources depicting the Galactic Empire, the three OT films and 2 episodes of Rebels. In that, imperial military personnel are casually executed by their superiors in two of them, and in one more, an officer is nearly executed, and a deleted scene for a fourth shows another near-execution.

Summary, undocumented execution is the common coin of the Imperial military in canon. And no, it's not just Vader.

Imperial military personnel from fleet admirals, down to
(Spoiler for SW Rebels pilot) Spoiler

line stormtroopers

and (spoiler for unaired episode of rebels follows) Spoiler

army cadets, or at least this is very strongly implied

are subject to and receive summary execution. Their deaths are not investigated, the bodies are just cleared away.

Uh, no. The only clear cut examples are the ones from Vader - with plenty of witnesses who knew it was Vader who did it, so they'd hardly need to investigate anything. They know who did it, and why. And nobody short of the Emperor is going to be dumb enough to question him on it.

The two Rebels examples you cite are misleading as fuck. For the first one, for all anyone knows, that trooper was killed in the battle. If Kallus never mentions it to anyone, it would likely be chalked up to that. Hardly a case of some random trooper being found dead and the Empire just shrugging their shoulders at it.

For the second, considering it's an unaired episode we have zero context for it as of yet so can't really assess the circumstances. Maybe it ends up supporting your position, maybe not. Until it airs, we can't really say.

[NecronLord]

The point is that the Empire is, in the few hours of canon material, rife with murdering of subordinates.

Provide a counterexample that says this is unusual.

[Vance]

There's a number of canon references behind the link I posted too, Necron Lord.

[NecronLord]

To elaborate, if people say a goa'uld murdering officers in the Imperial forces is going to be investigaved, the onus is on them to elaborate why this will be investigated, especially in view of the amount of killing that goes on in the eight hours or so of canon material showing the empire.

[NecronLord]

There's a number of canon references behind the link I posted too, Necron Lord.

Yes, and we see staff weapons blast holes in walls and blow up blast doors in SG1, too. Please provide some comparative numbers to justify the assertion that blasters are more powerful, given that their effects are broadly similar in visual effects.

[RogueIce]

"Rife" from a whole two people. One of whom is basically the number two man in the Empire, and the other done with zero witnesses in the immediate aftermath of a battle. But hey, if it's that important to you, why not?

Does it even matter? So what if the Goa'ould take over an Imperial Admiral and have him rebel against the Empire? Where's the canon examples of that working out? Whoops, those rogue Admirals from TIE Fighter and the novels are also gone, so you can't say whether or not it'd work. There's zero evidence to support that all of their subordinates would go along with betraying the Empire or if they'd just arrest their CO for treason. Because we have yet to see a disloyal Imperial officer attempt mutiny in the new canon.

[NecronLord]

"Rife" from a whole two people. One of whom is basically the number two man in the Empire, and the other done with zero witnesses in the immediate aftermath of a battle. But hey, if it's that important to you, why not?

IE you have no evidence that killing an inferior officer is illegal in the empire. Good good.

Does it even matter? So what if the Goa'ould take over an Imperial Admiral and have him rebel against the Empire? Where's the canon examples of that working out? Whoops, those rogue Admirals from TIE Fighter and the novels are also gone, so you can't say whether or not it'd work. There's zero evidence to support that all of their subordinates would go along with betraying the Empire or if they'd just arrest their CO for treason. Because we have yet to see a disloyal Imperial officer attempt mutiny in the new canon.

Check upwards, I don't think it'd actually work, I don't in fact think it probable or really worth discussion, the kicker is that the IOA are ready and willing to introduce replicators to an enemy force from aboard a cloaked ship, and those bastards are proof against most smallarms and are von-neumann machines with access to easy intergalactic FTL travel.

But the trail of bodies thing is entirely normal as far as we can tell for the empire. We need to start questioning our assumptions, built on thirty five years of now-deprecated information, about how the empire works, and what it is, even.

[Vance]

There's a number of canon references behind the link I posted too, Necron Lord.

Yes, and we see staff weapons blast holes in walls and blow up blast doors in SG1, too. Please provide some comparative numbers to justify the assertion that blasters are more powerful, given that their effects are broadly similar in visual effects.

Oh? I've not seen the staff weapons blast through metal doors or blast out rock and stone as effectively as blasters have. Could you post some video clips of these things?

Han Solo's hand gun vs 50 caliber, to scale comparison at 3:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukl0tEeZPjc

These to scale images compare the damage inflicted by 8 shots from the 50 cal to just a single shot from Han's gun:


Note how in this last image singular pieces of debris (of which there are many) is larger by surface area than the entire hole excavated by eight 50 cal rounds.


50 caliber rifles like the in the video can explode heads and tear off limbs. Han's hand gun, on the setting used here, is clearly many times more powerful and would at the very least reduce a man's chest to a fine red mist.

Again, these images are too scale, and they compare the damage inflicted on stone walls to Han Solo:


Scaling can be found http://www.galacticempirewars.com/dl-44 ... gmentationand http://www.galacticempirewars.com/dl-44 ... zed-debris

[NecronLord]

There's a number of canon references behind the link I posted too, Necron Lord.

Yes, and we see staff weapons blast holes in walls and blow up blast doors in SG1, too. Please provide some comparative numbers to justify the assertion that blasters are more powerful, given that their effects are broadly similar in visual effects.

Oh? I've not seen the staff weapons blast through metal doors or blast out rock and stone as effectively as blasters have. Could you post some video clips of these things?

Absolutely.


Much like blasters are thought of by most non-technical SW fans, as only making a small impact wound on human targets and doing nothing else, most non-technical SG fans think that about staff weapons. This is because in both examples, the overwhelming number of shots are low power examples, doing little damage, both however, can chew up the scenery on higher power settings.

Here we see one blast a very large, IE roughly the same size as the example above, hole in a wall with two shots (incidentally, demonstrating that they have power settings, as other shots hit the walls without doing any appreciable damage) there are some other examples of them doing damage to scenery, including blasting rocks people use for cover in two, but I do not have DVDs of all of those. This is the clearest example, however.

The best example is the Zygerrian blaster you have on the site; but even that, I'm not convinced is indicative of a weapon operating at a substantially greater power than staff weapons are capable of.