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 Post subject: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-11 03:13pm 

Just behind the scenes, out of universe stuff I guess, but could still be fun.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-11 03:23pm 

I feel like they're mining the crap out of it though, I wish Joss would throw together some webisodes or a spinoff series or SOME kind of new content.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-11 04:01pm 

Sad thing... I would say that FOX is ruled by a retarded monkey. But that would give retarded people and monkeys a bad name.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-11 05:17pm 

Joss Whedon is still too busy right now having probably made more money on opening weekend of avengers than the entire run of firefly plus that awful movie put together.

Seriously why would any fan begging for new content at this point when pretty much everyone involved with the show worth watching has moved on completely? Naw lets do a half assed low budget web-based resurrection that pretty much fails at recapturing the feel of the old series? The movie was the last chance and it just didn't happen the way everyone thought it would.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-11 05:28pm 

Yeah, once you see the movie you understand the thing is death, the characters they kill, the way it develops and unravels the space cannibals... damn you to hell FOX!!!

In any case, a new series, fully funded a backed up by a network with more brains than bladder, based on the same universe and being respectful of it's continuity might be worth the shot, but it would be a long shoot indeed, having to fill those huge shoes.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-11 10:45pm 

The problem with any attempt to resurrect Firefly is that it wasn't the IP that made it work, it was the cast. And they're not interested anymore. Summer Glau was 21 when Firefly aired. Now she's 31. I don't think she wants to go back to being cast as a crazy psychic waif. The same goes for the rest of the cast, maybe to varying degrees, but it does. That window of opportunity probably closed some time in the Bush administration.

So to make anything out of it that the fanbase would think was "as good" as the original, someone would have to put together a new bunch of actors who would have something like the chemistry and skill that made it work the first time. It's not practical.

It might have been nice if the thing had run for two seasons or so, but it's dead, it's hardly the best thing that ever happened, and a lot of other good stuff has been created since.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-12 04:08pm 

Planning to fail is failing to plan. Look at the webisodes for Sanctuary...oh wait, you don't have to, because it became a show.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-12 10:17pm 

The cast was a very important part of it yes but the universe was also interesting and good enough to explore. Also bear in mind Firefly was intentionally developed such that the cast are a literal bunch of nobodies. They are not Captain Picard of the Enterprise or Jake Sisko of Deep Space 9 or Dylan Hunt of the Andromeda. They don't decide fate of entire planets or even change the course of history barring one lucky misstep. These people are the random janitors,cargo ship crewmen and mooks whose stories don't get featured in other space opera.

If Firefly actuallly developed into a second season they would have to deal with a plotline that leads to a major conflict. Mal Reynolds aint no Sisko and the notion of him commanding massive fleet engagements may make some fanfic writers drool but it is so stupid and inconsistent with the character and the series itself. Having Mal and his plucky band of misfits decide the fate of an interplanetary war like other space opera heroes etc would totally ruin the feel of the series. If you want to do the BIG picture of the aftermath of events of Serenity you have to move away from the original main characters. Mal had his moment in the sun but thats about it.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-12 10:29pm 

Do you believe this is the reason Serenity bombed- that it alienated fans and potential fans by making Mal "Savior of the Universe"?

What characters do you believe this show should star? A soldier/explorer/diplomatic/ambassador, like Kirk or Picard? A hero on a quest to meet his destiny, like Luke Skywalker?

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-12 10:48pm 

I don't know. Serenity was the first Firefly I watched and loved it so much I bought the whole series in DVD. In retrospect the movie is somewhat inconsistent in many regards (as many would point out) but that never bothered me. It was first decent science fiction movie set in space in many years that was not Stargate or Star Trek. And with memorable characters, dialogue, humor and all around great action scenes I loved every minute of it.



I think a Deep Space 9 like approach would be best way to deal with the comic intrigue,political developments and eventual war that may engulf the entire planetary system. However I am not sure if Joss Whedon is upto the task of developing a wide range of memorable background characters as seen in DS9, his style is more like TNG/TOS where it is 7 highly detailed interesting main heroes. JMS might be better option if he could be tapped.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-13 01:23am 

Without the original cast, any new Firefly would be a reboot, in which case you can start over with the same premise instead of being stuck with Serenity changing the tone of the story.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-13 02:10am 

^^

That is certainly true. IIRC Firefly was originally supposed to be more realistic taking place in the asteroid belt with no aritifical gravity, filming requirements and budget forced them to change the setting because 0 G is hard to do in live action even today.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-13 04:06pm 

Without having seen Firefly first, Serenity is only an okay SF movie with some cool stylistic elements and characters. I saw it in theaters years before I ever watched any Firefly, and I don't remember being that impressed with it when I saw it.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-13 09:47pm 

Well, you could keep the... scenery of Firefly (many habitable planets, most of them living in subsistence or poverty, with the 'space Western' aesthetic). But you'd still need a different cast. Either you'd just have Mal/Zoe/etc. with different faces, or you'd reimagine the basic personalities of the characters and rearrange things.

And you'd have to do a very good job, either way. In some ways this is the same obstacle that we're going to see to a remake of Star Wars (eventually, after George Lucas dies and they run out of ways to milk the original movies by remastering them and 3D-ifying them and so on). A lot of actors in the original did a great job with the characterization, and who's going to sign up to out-Han Harrison Ford? Or out-Obiwan Alec Guiness? And if they did, could they actually pull it off?

Maybe, but it'd be a hard job to do, and the temptation to just randomly pull in big names who aren't suited for the roles would be tough to fight.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-16 03:35am 

well Browncoats will always unite, I spent this weekend instead with a young lady who just turned 1, whose named after a character in firefly.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-16 08:26am 

Vera?

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-16 11:32am 

Nope and not the psychic waif, or the "Ambassadore" think Wrench Wench

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-16 12:03pm 

Without the original cast, any new Firefly would be a reboot, in which case you can start over with the same premise instead of being stuck with Serenity changing the tone of the story.[/quote][quote="Simon_Jester"]

No it's not true. Without the cast, a new Firefly could easily be any other set of characters set in the same universe. The entire concept was that the these were every Schmos in a crappy ship just trying to get by. Sure the characters were a huge part of making it work, but that's exactly why any other set of Schmos that are equally good characters could make it work too. Firefly was about the people who happened to be in the ship. You could just as easily put different people in the ship, and build their stories. Set it fifteen years later in the aftermath of a long and bloody second civil war and maybe have a send off from a cast member or two.

You can have an entirely fresh story with the occasional nod to the old cast, OR use a different firefly altogether, maybe the class became popular after the events of Serenity. You could ditch the "firefly" part altogether, and do stories about mercenaries, bounty hunters, rebels, colonists or any other fringe group out on the edge, or you could do one from the Alliance perspective, where the main characters have no idea about the sinister machinations of the Alliance but are determined to defend civilization, you could even DO a political story about an internal overthrow of the alliance or something. The universe created has plenty of potential, it doesn't rely solely on the characters we got to know in twelve episodes.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-16 04:45pm 

I think everyone can state what made Firefly special for them and it would be equally valid, but I pretty much agree 100% with the above. Why didn't he just start writing novels? My imagination could have kept all the characters alive, and my internal monologue would have been in each characters/actors voices. Would have been nice.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-16 10:58pm 

Firefly was good but the show is dead. While I enjoyed it and the movie greatly and always will, this is the time to move on.

Part of creating a new universe is about casting off the old baggage. Acknowledge your influences, pay homage where suitable, but make something new. A reboot is the cheap-ass way of doing that.

Firefly was trying to do a more realistic space opera with the sense of "What if we saw Han Solo before A New Hope when he was still a smuggler?" with a touch of lost-cause survivor of a failed rebellion.

Thing is, the spirit, themes and characters of Firefly made far more sense than the setting. If I ever set aside how much I liked the characters, my brain starts seg-faulting on the 'verse as presented. It makes even less sense than BSG reboot which was pretty goddamn horrific to begin with.

Frankly, at this point I would care less about the in-universe story mechanics and more about the real world mechanics of producing the show. Can a show like this be produced without getting fucked by the network? Show me that and I'll feel comfy getting to know the characters and invested in the story.

Realistic space opera is hard since space opera is pretty unrealistic to begin with. Space is no more conducive to swashbuckling than Cold War sub combat is to 18th century Horatio Hornblower stories. There's no daring sub skippers seducing beautiful Russian agents and boarding actions. A good Cold War sub story is possible, they've been told, but they're pretty much incompatible with derring-do and high adventure. Much in the same way that a WWIII nuclear war in-the-bunker story could be gripping and captivating but simply won't have the same feel as a tale of Rome with barbarians at the gates.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-16 11:48pm 

I sorry, I was laughing for a minute after reading this.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-17 01:54am 

You're jumping at shadows.

My point is that you'd have to work to assemble a cast good enough to make it work again. The details don't matter- it could be a near-clone of Firefly with new faces, or it could be 'other schmos in another jalopy-ship.' Or it could be something completely different, like people struggling to rebuild a single planet, or Alliance minions, or whatever.

And that was my point all along. However you do it, you're going to have to find a cast with good enough chemistry that it looks as good as the original. Otherwise, you won't keep the old fans and you won't make enough new ones to avoid the fate of the original.

What, Whedon? Because he's not that kind of artist. Whedon produces visual media; as a novelist he'd be nothing special.

I think there's a lot to be said for the freedom to imagine in SF. Among other things, when we aren't spending all our mental energy trying to make the science fiction "hard," we have more to spare for making it applicable- we can talk about things that we already know are likely to be 21st-century issues. Science fiction has a social criticism role, along with being a source of escape fantasy.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-17 07:03am 

One question is why does Firefly have to be in space? It could have just as easily been Earth 100 years in the future. The US is on the losing side of a war with China. The new political leaders in this country are currying favor with Beijing and keeping their wealth and power selling out the regular folk. Mal would have been ex-military. The Serenity could Ben's tramp freighter sailing in some region that credibly includes backwaters and major cities in reasonable proximity, a place where central authority is stretched thin.

Come to think of it, the war might not have been China vs America but the Feds cracking down on ip violations by their own citizens because China was upset about piracy. Maybe the rebels were using black market replicators to run off copies of necessary goods or grew illegal seeds without paying the vig to the ag conglomerate.

Spaceships are cool but the themes seem like they could still work out in the mid-future on Earth. The biggest concern would be the expense of production. Were generic planets that all looked alike cheaper to pull off? How about the effects for the ship? Cheaper to pull off than attempting with a real boat and selective CGI?

The western stuff would be easy to explain. It's a manufactured counter-culture, the rebels deliberately aping antiquated styles as a form of rebellion. Cowboys = freedom even though the history doesn't quite track. If whatever country music evolves into goes political like rock in the 60's, if the styles in the vids make an impression on youth, you'll see a subculture spread and morph. Cowboying up is just another way of raising a finger to the Man.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-17 03:41pm 

Yeah because Sanctuary was a high budget show on a broadcast network expected to perform like the various Star Treks, Buffy, etc...

oh wait no it wasn't.

 Post subject: Re: New Firefly on the way?

Posted: 2012-07-17 03:44pm 

Holy crap though I come back to this thread and i'm seeing some of the most rational posting about Firefly i've seen on this board yet (except for themightytom who continues the browncoat tradition of masturbatory fantasies involving the resurrection of this failed franchise).