StarDestroyer.Net BBS

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-18 11:16am 

A sensibleplan, but I would question the "unlimited retries" you mentioned. We have seen in DW that you can't keep going back to the same point without risking annoying paradoxes, and those Reaper things turning up.

Although....given that you have a highly advanced time machine and a lot of Time Lord knowledge locked away in Sexy, would it be possible to throw a Time Lock aroudn the library at the moment the fire/raid starts? Torchwood is able to do that with a lot less tech than the TARDIS.

That way, you have as much time as you need to save/copy/replace with fakes the entire library, then break the Time Lock and everyone else is none the wiser.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-18 01:16pm 

Ok here is a plan that should avoid lots of crossing your own time line and such...

Step1:
Go back, oh, say 100years before the ""Estimated"" time of the Libraries destruction. Place amonitoring device with a small "Ignore Me" field on it, and leave it be.
Go forward after the destruction, recover device. You now know the EXACT time of its destruction with out having to go back at a bunch of points in time:

Step2: Travel back in time, oh, say a few months before the exact destruction and SCAN the whole thing. Then begin the process of creating copies of all the documents.

Ok THAT allowes you to know the exact destruction point AND Have a copy you can swap for the orginal of everything in the Library with OUT having to do lots of messy Timey Wimey stuff.
Now this next bit is the hard part...

How do you actually SWAP the documents?
I mean, we don't want to have robots, machines, wierd devices doing stuff shortly before the destruction, Historians are up to ask lots of Questions...
My own idea... Use some sort of 'Sleep generator" and each night put anyone inside asleep and slowly replace them by hand.
Yes it may take a while, but again, no need for complicated time stuff, or robots, or other things.

Now then.. What to DO with everything once you do have the orginals? Well I have that covered...

Simply find a location around the city where you "Know" that no one would dig around in it till, oh, say about the 1950's or 60's. Simply create a huge stone Tomb and bury them all there. You could leave some carvings saying that, oh, brave scribes fearing the worst, copied and hid the Library in a self spot. That would work!

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-18 02:37pm 

That woudl work, although I would still suggest throwing up a Time Lock at one moment to do all the work, that way you can have lots of droids who, lets face it, will probably be more careful with vital documents than humans. They also won't get tired, can be programmed to store things properly to ensure their survival and so on. And at the end you can memory wipe them all so no one knows that you interfered in the past. Done.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-18 05:37pm 

That all sounds very, very complicated. I say just steal and land a Star Trek shuttle craft in a cave somewhere with a cloaking device. And lock its scanners on the library to act as a fancy fire alarm. The moment the fire/bad event starts have it scan the whole library for a replicator patten and call you. You can than go ahead and replicate as many copies of the whole library with all it's works as you want at your leisure.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-19 08:28am 

In regards to Eternal_Freedom, as I mentioned earlier, I would liek to avoid any "Timey Wimey" stuff. A Time Lock is kind of the text book example of one. It is a time LOCK, and I don't accidently want to get locked inside forever...

In regards to Purple.
Well that WOULD work, but waiting till that moment is cutting things close.. What if something goes wrong? Also, even if you scan everything at that exact moment, You have to hope you can now replicate it.

Remember the real point is not JUST to save the raw information, but to provide hardcopies for "everyone else" to find thousands of years later. You can't just 'Show up' with 100'000 scrolls, after all carbon datign would show them to be rather young..

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-19 12:03pm 

Which is why the Time Lock idea works. Yes, it's timey-wimey stuff, but it DOES allow mass duplication of the entire Library without anyone noticing it in a time span so short no one will notice. Plus, if you use droids you can program them to return everything to exactly where it was, meaning no confused scribes trying to find their manuscript.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-19 12:27pm 

Considering some of the stuff we have seen star trek scanners do I say it's doable.


Is there a reason why one could not replicate tons of papyrus or parchment from the computers memory when ever one wants?


So replicate it than and there and leave them in the same cave where the shuttle craft is? Or just tell the computer to modify the carbon content on replication to resemble an ancient object. It should not be that hard to go through the memory with a find and replace and put the correctly decayed carbon isotopes in place.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-19 12:33pm 

I like this saving of the Library of Alexandria idea. What about including fiction works from fictional universes? Jedi holocrons, holoprograms, and all the art, books, movies and such that doesn't exist in our world.As an example, imagine having the McBain movies from the Simpsons in your DVD library.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-19 12:49pm 

You are welcome to that if you want...
I am sticking to the "real" universe. The problem with fictional ones, are that they are fictional. There is no way to know what you might run into.

Personally, given the length of Human history I will have more then enough to occupy things.

One thing I am looking forward to... Going back through history and spending a week or so at Each of the great World's Fair. London 1851, 1853 New York, 1876 Philadelphia, 1878 Paris, 1893 Chicago... I could spend Years just seeing those! And think of all the other great moments in history. Going back and watching Rome or Greece at thier height. Seeing the ancient wonders of the world. On and On...

Of course, doing so all making sure you don't change anything... Well, At least not changing anything I am not Planning on changing


Oh, Also to Purple again...

You are correct, I guess my issue was it just seemed to "Easy" But... Using Star Trek tech, well that is kind of what it does... It makes things "easy"
I think the REAL hard part, is finding a cave/tomb to store everything for a few thousand years.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-19 08:52pm 

I kill everyone on the Mary Celeste.

I kill everyone on a Spanish treasure galleon and steal the gold.

Etc.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-20 02:36pm 

Then you're a greedy, evil fuck.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-20 07:21pm 

Or you could just put everything on Mars. With a little work and help from robots, there would be NO chance a primitive Earthling could find your stash, let alone touch it.

Until the beginning of the Space Age, anyway, but by then you'll be well prepared.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-20 08:53pm 

bring a cyborg space marine to 1810 and introduce him to Mary Wolcraft.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-20 09:12pm 

Um... Eulogy not sure if your in the spirit of things... Leaving these on Mars would Kind of Raise some awkward questions.
We are wanting these to be found by archeologists, not astronauts.
Unless, are you saying leave them on Mars for a few thousand years and THEN take them back to Earth? Because that would also raise a whole host of issues.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-21 12:16am 

I'm get an antenna, and a VHS set. Then record all of the old television that was lost.

A lot of it will be junk, but there'll be some great things in there.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-21 12:19am 

The advantage of temporarily putting it on Mars (or some other relatively unchanging place) is when the time comes for the "discovery" you can pick the place where they will be found. That means that you can know where mankind has not thoroughly explored, and stick your stash(es) in one or some of them. The entire point is that you want your time capsules to be found when YOU want them to be found, after all, and you want them to be convincing.

Otherwise there are too many variables to consider. If there were many, say, earthquakes in the place where your time capsule is you'll want to know so you can put in structural damage. You want your capsules to pass numerous testing and scrutinization, so that people will accept it as the real deal. The problem is as you've said is putting the capsules in a place where humans will discover it when you want them discovered, and civilization, the planet, and life itself is too chaotic for you to predict that that ancient temple will be revealed in 3000 AD and put in a museum rather than 1000 BC and get looted, flooded, incinerated, or get turned into a lair for vermin.

It wouldn't even be hard to put in reasons why those artifacts weren't found until now. A volcano erupted, covering the building in ash and soot and the place was forgotten. An old glacier finally melts, unsealing long frozen treasures. A family heirloom is actually a key to unlock something some rich eccentric decided to keep safe, and the clues weren't pieced together until now. Some primitive tribe found these artifacts, horded and worshipped them, then died out, letting intrepid explorers happen upon them millennia later. You could even go the way of Amelia Earhart and have a shipwreck recovered after all these years. Retconning these time capsules would be simple if you know the history behind the region, and of course when the time comes you can set up little accidents that lead to the discovery. Minor details like Martian dust being on the documents instead of terrestrial dust can be solved with the high technology you're packing.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-21 08:01am 

Or he could just do what I suggested and have the computer amend the scans of the documents to make them look old for the purposes of carbon dating and other stuff. And than replicate them brand new just when they are to be discovered and put them in place for a would be discoverer to run into.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-21 08:40am 

That sounds like a LOT Of extra work Eulogy. And try and remember, we aren't talking about things that can fit in a "time capsule" or even a few rooms. It was estimated there were over 100,000 scolls and tablets at the great Library.

Inviting some complex story about them "turning up" using volcanos, glacier and deserted islands are quite problematic Not to mention the whole issue of being covered in Mars dust...

Simplicity is your friend.

We have a time machine, one of the things we can do with it is find a place we KNOW will not be disturbed for several thousand years. That is one of the nice perks of having a time machine. Shoot you may not even need that. I am sure an internet search may find more then a few spots around the Egypt area that were not disturbed till the late 20th century.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-29 09:03pm 

Personally, I would go rabid scholar, and devour all the advanced science I could. Possibly begin by joining the Culture, not with anything in particular worth trading (though I'll be sure to do some nice things for them later) but by showing up and saying so, then asking for lessons in science and Marain.

Go to Orion's Arm to study some of their better nanowank, genetic engineering and possibly computer technologies. Return with some of the many, many variations on the human form to the culture, along with anything I think they may like. I think there are people in the Culture who have waited their entire lives to become Sailors.

Mostly though, I want an upgraded Superior body and an Ultimate Chip. Which I will further upgrade with Dahakverse enhancement. That should about be the limit of my self-tinkering, unless I feel threatened enough for a crash-upgrade to godhood. Having the sheer power to bull your way through all problems just weakens your ability to deal with more complex situations, and I'd really worry about no longer being me if I had godlike power or mental abilities.

Then pretty much wander the multiverse, doing the Doctor routine. Help out wherever I can, study science, magic, alchemy, bending. Unlike the Doctor, I intend to do all of this while heavily armed.

In fact, against crises where I won't want to do the emergency upgrade thing, I'll gather a collection of experts including Jim Raynor, Tiny Stark, Mike O'Neal, Julio Poertena, Turaga Vakama, some friendly TechMarines and Tribal experts if I swing it, into a neutral location. There I will build a large facility, load it up with advanced technology, and set them to work studying every suit of power armor to ever exist (or even just armor worn in sci-fi settings and somewhat effective) and every cool bit of technology I think might work well to create a few variations of 'ultimate armor.' I will let everyone who participates in the project have a completed suit of their own, and will sweeten the pot with advanced knowledge from their own setting.

I don't expect to need it a lot, but it will be a cool project to let me further study materials sciences, chemistry, nanotech, and even enchantments I can layer on the things.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-30 06:39am 

Why is everybody trying to figure out a way to replace the contents of the Library Of Alexandria with copies? Why the hell is it even necessary?

Just go in the night before the fire and steal everything. People of course will know everything was stolen, but that's a good thing, because it will create a legend about the library which will make every scholar seek something, anything from it.

Then, wait a few centuries and start releasing the documents across Europe to jump-start the Reneissance. Best thing? They don't have to be carefully falsified copies that will pass carbon dating and historical scrutiny ; Just pass them out AS COPIES. In three centuries nobody will remember precisely how they began appearing in cultural centers of the continent...

"Ser van Helsing, I have in my posession several books from the legendary Library Of Alexandria ; They were copied in the orient from originals recovered by...myself."

Then you go poof, heating up people's imagination some more.

It's not the fact it came from the Library that makes these works revolutionary, you know. Just get people to read and start discussing them. And of course insert some modern stuff in there just because fuck, why not?

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-30 08:34am 

Did you not read the OP? You can't do anything that will change our history. Hence the stealing or copy pasting. So that it makes no actual change that would be noticed by anyone.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-30 08:42am 

I did read the OP. I also read the rest of the thread where the author says that you can go to a slightly different parallel universe and go wild. So do that, steal everything from the library before it's burned down, help the locals with copies and bring the originals back home.

Or, you know, go to a universe where the library survived and just copy everything leisurely to bring back home

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-30 10:07am 

Then it might be an alternate copy of those works, and not the same as the original. And aside from me, no one else is interested in alternate universe media.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-06-30 07:54pm 

I start reality and time hoping for technical data I can bring back to Earth to build a mega-corporation to rule the world.
Same thing I do whenever I get reality and time hoping technology.

How? Really easy

Stop #1 -
Star Trek; Nemesis
Hail Pichard. "Tell you what, I'll save humanity from the Scimitar, if I can get data copies of all Federation science. Preferably in the file formats and on the technology I'm going to supply. You'll have to provide the additional hard drives for me."

"Tell Troi I'm currently parked under and behind it. Aim and fire at will...."

Now the Enterprise won't waste tons of Torpedoes. Even better would be if I can lunch the Scimitar with whatever onboard weapons the Tardis has.

Rense and repeat similiar situations as required.

 Post subject: Re: your TARDIS awaits

Posted: 2012-07-01 09:43pm 

Does the TARDIS have any weapons?