Saving the the Imperium of Man

[Imperial Overlord]

Which is why I said they're the epitome of a warrior tribe (not "barbarians") as opposed to being a professional army. If you want someone torn to pieces in the most comprehensive manner possible, you send the wolves. If you want a people conquered for specific strategic gain however, you send the smurfs.

Also, the highest praise from Guilliman about the wolves in KNF is to classify them as one of the "Dauntless Few", an honor not even shared by Horus' Luna Wolves. Being one of the Legions that Guilliman believes can win a doomsday scenario outright is pretty impressive.

The Wolves, are specialists and their specialization is total destruction. That doesn't make them unprofessional, it makes them unsuited for tasks that don't involve a lot of direct violence. They are very much focused around getting the job done right. They have strong discipline, clear chain of command, comprehensive training, planning, establish clear goals, and all the other hallmarks of a professional organization.

[Zinegata]

Again, the wolves are effective, I'm not saying they aren't. But they aren't a professional army, they're the epitome of a warrior tribe.

They simply don't have a codified or systemized organization like a true army. Their chain of command and the dissemination of information is done through a labyrinth of various rituals that are limited purely within the organization. Their habit of using books only for toilet paper tends to further cement their position as a warrior tribe as opposed to a true army.

An army, as opposed to a tribe, should be all-inclusive. Anyone can be trained to become an Ultramarine, particularly if they read up on the numerous manuals they've published. But the Space Wolves are really tribal in nature and you can't really become part of the tribe unless you were born into it. To use a real-world analogy, the Space Wolves are the ultimate Ghurka, but the Ghurkas never conquered an entire empire the same way the Roman Army did.

[Imperial Overlord]

An army, as opposed to a tribe, should be all-inclusive. Anyone can be trained to become an Ultramarine, particularly if they read up on the numerous manuals they've published. But the Space Wolves are really tribal in nature and you can't really become part of the tribe unless you were born into it. To use a real-world analogy, the Space Wolves are the ultimate Ghurka, but the Ghurkas never conquered an entire empire the same way the Roman Army did.

You can't be a Space Wolf without the genetic mods that come with being from Fenris. They are also, again, specialists not generalists that can only successfully recruit from one particular cultural and genetic group. They aren't ever going to be as broad based and diverse as the Ultramarines. Their methods of information dissemination, including the use of teaching machines as well as rituals and word of mouth, work. That they use the title "jarl" and they have different customs doesn't mean they aren't professional. It's not like the Ultramarines don't have their own iron clad rituals. Roberto said multiple times that the Codex was just a guide and an information source and its become iron clad holy writ. Not a "professional" quality, but rote obedience.

And the Ghurkas are most definitely professional. If you mean "can't do the job of running the Empire" or "do jobs ranging from world rebuilding, administration, and conquest" by using the word "professional" then you're really talking about the possession of a wide diversity of skills and a broader mind set versus specialization.

[The Reaper]

In fact Abaddon is locked up securely in the Eye of Terror. He's landed on Cadia, but since he wasn't able to get space superiority that doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot.

Except that the Necron pylons are degrading, and who knows what Abaddon might be able to do to that.

If the pylons degrade, Abaddon himself is screwed. With no stable means of exiting the Eye of Terror, any "Black Crusades" he launches will be reduced to mere raiding parties, for the Imperial Navy to defeat piecemeal. (To paraphrase another board member, without the pylons, ships exiting the Eye of Terror can't coordinate their attacks, because while one ship in a fleet might reach its objective on schedule, the Eye's ability to screw time may mean another ship in the same fleet won't reach its objective until YEARS LATER.)

I didn't see anyone comment on this so I decided to do so myself. This isn't true. The Cadian Pylons are for everyone who wants to get into the Eye, as regularly it is "closed" making entering it impossible from anywhere other than the Cadian Gate. However the Eye can "blink" to let forces in and out at times, and when a Black Crusade is launched the Eye "opens" to let everything come and go as it pleases.

[Lancer]

If the pylons degrade, Abaddon himself is screwed. With no stable means of exiting the Eye of Terror, any "Black Crusades" he launches will be reduced to mere raiding parties, for the Imperial Navy to defeat piecemeal. (To paraphrase another board member, without the pylons, ships exiting the Eye of Terror can't coordinate their attacks, because while one ship in a fleet might reach its objective on schedule, the Eye's ability to screw time may mean another ship in the same fleet won't reach its objective until YEARS LATER.)

I didn't see anyone comment on this so I decided to do so myself. This isn't true. The Cadian Pylons are for everyone who wants to get into the Eye, as regularly it is "closed" making entering it impossible from anywhere other than the Cadian Gate. However the Eye can "blink" to let forces in and out at times, and when a Black Crusade is launched the Eye "opens" to let everything come and go as it pleases.

It works the other way round as well Reaper. The Cadian Gate is, for better or for worse, the only stable passage into or out of the Eye of Terror. There are occasional rifts that open up and let a lucky raider warband slip out, or suck in some unlucky bastard in, but they're not anywhere near large or long-lasting enough to permit passage for the number of ships involved in a full-fledged Crusade of either faction.

[NecronLord]

Except that the Necron pylons are degrading, and who knows what Abaddon might be able to do to that.

Actually we've got that sorted, in the same source that revealed that they were of necron origin, the 13th Black Crusade campaign, it shows that on the Sentinel Worlds by the Eye of Terror, three adjacent necron planets, are having new pylons constructed on them, if they do actually contain the Eye of Terror (as opposed to simply make a stable route in) in some way, the defences are being tripled. If of course, it actually makes the stable way out, then that may be a problem for the Imperium, but the necrons (being bad guys) probably know what they're doing (and if it does become a new Cadian Gate, it's whatever necron faction that's making them's problem before it's the Imperium's anyway). It's also worth noting that the necrons showed up to defend the pylons in one scenario there, so they may continue to do so. Degrading doesn't necessarily mean catastrophic failure is imminent after all.

I was under the impression that the Astronomican was what allowed the Navigator to make longer journeys in the warp without the constant dropping out to recalibrate in real space that other races like the Orks are forced to do, which gives the Imperium their greater speed and strategic advantage. Indeed, with the navigator on board, Imperial warships have a better advantage than Chaos warships(those without daemonic guidance) as they have far better control over their trips.

It is, but it is worth noting that according to the largest source on Navigators (what with them being a playable class and all their gear statted) various technical upgrades to a ship, superior maps, and other such things can make up for being unable to see the Astronomicon (having both is even better though). Presumably these things, instead of being ultra-rare, were common in the Golden Age of Technology.

[Imperial Overlord]

It is, but it is worth noting that according to the largest source on Navigators (what with them being a playable class and all their gear statted) various technical upgrades to a ship, superior maps, and other such things can make up for being unable to see the Astronomicon (having both is even better though). Presumably these things, instead of being ultra-rare, were common in the Golden Age of Technology.

It's internally consistent. The Astronomicon is, after all, a creation of the Imperium and the Golden Age predates that.

[The Reaper]

If the pylons degrade, Abaddon himself is screwed. With no stable means of exiting the Eye of Terror, any "Black Crusades" he launches will be reduced to mere raiding parties, for the Imperial Navy to defeat piecemeal. (To paraphrase another board member, without the pylons, ships exiting the Eye of Terror can't coordinate their attacks, because while one ship in a fleet might reach its objective on schedule, the Eye's ability to screw time may mean another ship in the same fleet won't reach its objective until YEARS LATER.)

I didn't see anyone comment on this so I decided to do so myself. This isn't true. The Cadian Pylons are for everyone who wants to get into the Eye, as regularly it is "closed" making entering it impossible from anywhere other than the Cadian Gate. However the Eye can "blink" to let forces in and out at times, and when a Black Crusade is launched the Eye "opens" to let everything come and go as it pleases.

It works the other way round as well Reaper. The Cadian Gate is, for better or for worse, the only stable passage into or out of the Eye of Terror. There are occasional rifts that open up and let a lucky raider warband slip out, or suck in some unlucky bastard in, but they're not anywhere near large or long-lasting enough to permit passage for the number of ships involved in a full-fledged Crusade of either faction.

Precisely, it is the best and only permanent way in or out, I was just making sure people knew it isn't always the case, especially with Chaos. Except of course during Black Crusades.

[Block]

So is the Maelstrom not linked to the Eye of Terror somehow?

[Imperial Overlord]

So is the Maelstrom not linked to the Eye of Terror somehow?

It's a similar, but much smaller, stable warpstorm with warpy ickiness inside. Huron Blackheart and his Astral Claws are the most powerful faction in the region, but there are other pirates and renegades within the Maelstrom. It's not actually connected to the Eye of Terror, but is a similar region.

[white_rabbit]

It's a similar, but much smaller, stable warpstorm with warpy ickiness inside. Huron Blackheart and his Astral Claws are the most powerful faction in the region, but there are other pirates and renegades within the Maelstrom. It's not actually connected to the Eye of Terror, but is a similar region.

Daemon world suggests that the Maelstrom is related to the Eye of Terror in that the maiden world known to "modern" 40k as Torvendis was a Webway hub that survived a smaller scale warp storm eruption. Torvendis was at the exact center of the Maelstrom, until it exploded. The eldar used warships and a sorcerous planetary shield to keep it safe until they finally retreated/whatever.

So its perhaps backlash from the Eye of Terror kersploding.

[Vashon]

So is the Maelstrom not linked to the Eye of Terror somehow?

It's a similar, but much smaller, stable warpstorm with warpy ickiness inside. Huron Blackheart and his Astral Claws are the most powerful faction in the region, but there are other pirates and renegades within the Maelstrom. It's not actually connected to the Eye of Terror, but is a similar region.

Yeah, and part of the Night Lords were expelled from the region due to conflicts with Huron and the Red Corsairs.

One way to aid the Imperium is to use the reserve of geneseed from the Dark Angels and others to slowly double and triple the current numbers of Astartes chpaters and chapter controlled worlds. It would also mean it would take less time for a chapter to respond to most crisis points and possibly give the IoM some breathing room. The best way to train the chapters fast would be to assign certain companies to assist nearby veterans Astartes forces in addition to normal training. This could be used to begin switching out some of the Guard and have them training new recruits on nearby worlds to the Imperial standard and so and so.

I use the Dark Angels because apparently their geneseed is as stable as Ultramarine but wasnt used due to suspicions regarding Caliban and other issues. It is currently being released at a slow pace to see how it does.

[Talk738kno]

What limits the number of Space Marines is not really geneseed, but its a matter of politics, since they don't want the Astartes to grow too strong. (See the Babab War.)

[Vashon]

What limits the number of Space Marines is not really geneseed, but its a matter of politics, since they don't want the Astartes to grow too strong. (See the Babab War.)

Badab War? That was almost purely an Astartes conflict and was solved by Astartes.

No, I think you mean the Horus Heresy.

And pointing out politics is the main limiting factor, in a manner that implied I didnt know that, is sligtly dishonest, given that I specifically mentioned "suspicions" as the known reason for the DA geneseed not getting as widely used as it could be. Quite frankly, it completely obvious to anybody that the only reason for keeping it at a mere 1000 chapters is both politics and that fact that for the vast majority of the IoM's history, a thousand chapters were plenty and sufficient to slow down and hold the line for the IG and IN to bring the hammerdown.

Think of it this way. There are tiers of responses of the level of logistical commitment and time required to bring it to bare.

Assasins are the quickest and have the smallest logistical footprint but can end rebellions before they become full blown revolts and can delay or even kill an Waaagh in its womb. They can eliminate Chaos Warlords and sometimes small warbands before they can gather a truly threatening force. They are very useful against certain xenos activites such as Eldar incursions and Tau expansions, nipping them in the bud before they can become a true threat. If and when an Assasin is successful, it saves the Imperium countless lives and materiel.

Then there are certain Inquisitorial organizations and their strike forces such as Ordo Xenos and the Deathwatch Killteams and Ordo Hereticus and the Grey Knights. This also saves both men and materiel. Almost the same amount as an Assasin. But unlike an Assasin, these organizations can call down the ever-mighty hammer of the IoM as a whole.

Then of course are the Astartes Chapters. There logistical footprint is noticeable but isnt much of a strain, as the Imperium expects the Astartes to be killing shit all the time.

At this point, several more orders of magnitude of planning and logistic needs are neccessary.


The Hammer of the Emperor, the Imperial Guard brings forth vast and limitless amounts of bodies and manpower but these need feeding and ammunition. There footprint is massive and whenever they have to be shuttled about, it is one strand of hair that is breaking the Imperiums back. The usual response of the Guard can take anywhere from 6 months to 10 years. This Hammer is only brought forth with all of the previous have either failed or were sikply unable to bring enough sheer, brute force to the table.


EDIT: Kinda got carried away. Woops. Anywho, the Adeptus Astartes is the most convenient and simplest to expand with readily available resources and gives a pretty big bang for a fairly large buck.

Certain enemies always demand the hammer be brought down ASAP. These are Necrons and Tyranids.


Note:This does not include Crusades. Those are expansionary and in thee long run pay for themselves in men and materiel. If they can be held long enough to matter.

[Lord Revan]

though there's Adeptus Astrades chapters that simply cannot be given successors, Blood Ravens for example (if the rumors about their geneseed source is true) and Grey Knights is another.

another problem in expanding the number of the space marines is that alot of their gear tends to be on the rarer side of things, while I assume that when stuff like Dreadnaught or Terminator are considered lost tech, it really means the way to make them is known by so few it's not viable/possible to build them in large numbers rather then we don't know at all how to build them (as they do know how to repair them).

[Vashon]

though there's Adeptus Astrades chapters that simply cannot be given successors, Blood Ravens for example (if the rumors about their geneseed source is true) and Grey Knights is another.

another problem in expanding the number of the space marines is that alot of their gear tends to be on the rarer side of things, while I assume that when stuff like Dreadnaught or Terminator are considered lost tech, it really means the way to make them is known by so few it's not viable/possible to build them in large numbers rather then we don't know at all how to build them (as they do know how to repair them).

Terminators might be lostech but more likely are raretech. Modern Dreadnaughts simply cant be lostech since when they are lost they are gone for good.

While some chapters cant have succesors, notably Blood Ravens, Grey Knights, and Space Wolfs, the rest can. The Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Imperial Fists, White Scars, and Raven Guard all have spawned succesor chapters and have stocks of geneseed built up on Mars.

The Disciples of Caliban specifically came about because the chapter master of the Dark Angels requested some DA geneseed be released for the purpose of a new chapter. So expanding the Astartes numbers is doable, there just needs to be enough incentive to outweigh the cost.

[Simon_Jester]

What limits the number of Space Marines is not really geneseed, but its a matter of politics, since they don't want the Astartes to grow too strong. (See the Babab War.)

Badab War? That was almost purely an Astartes conflict and was solved by Astartes.

No, I think you mean the Horus Heresy.

Exactly, and a hell of a lot of ordinary Imperials died. Others lived under the rebels' rule for many years, and the efforts of several loyal chapters were diverted from, say, fighting the real enemy.

The Space Marines have a nasty history of disloyalty. On any given day, operationally, they are trusted because they are reliable. Over the ten thousand years of their existence, on the grand strategic level, they aren't trusted. I can't blame the Imperium for that, really. And I don't think more Marines is what the Imperium most urgently needs- the Marines don't and can't exist in the numbers it would take to fix the galaxy. What's needed is reform in the handling of the perfectly ordinary portions of the service, the Navy and Guard.

And frankly, they need to break the Mechanicus monopoly on technology, it's incredibly counterproductive- but that would be immensely difficult.

The chapters are valuable, but they're a very specialized and small force compared to the overall Imperial military.

[Lord Revan]

though there's Adeptus Astrades chapters that simply cannot be given successors, Blood Ravens for example (if the rumors about their geneseed source is true) and Grey Knights is another.

another problem in expanding the number of the space marines is that alot of their gear tends to be on the rarer side of things, while I assume that when stuff like Dreadnaught or Terminator are considered lost tech, it really means the way to make them is known by so few it's not viable/possible to build them in large numbers rather then we don't know at all how to build them (as they do know how to repair them).

Terminators might be lostech but more likely are raretech. Modern Dreadnaughts simply cant be lostech since when they are lost they are gone for good.

While some chapters cant have succesors, notably Blood Ravens, Grey Knights, and Space Wolfs, the rest can. The Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Imperial Fists, White Scars, and Raven Guard all have spawned succesor chapters and have stocks of geneseed built up on Mars.

The Disciples of Caliban specifically came about because the chapter master of the Dark Angels requested some DA geneseed be released for the purpose of a new chapter. So expanding the Astartes numbers is doable, there just needs to be enough incentive to outweigh the cost.

Aren't the Wolf Brothers a Space Wolf successor chapter or have they been reconned out of existance, my codex gives them as a second founding chapter related to the Space Wolves (and it's 5th Ed codex).

That said I never said creating new chapters is impossible, just that it's hard enough for the cost to not outweight the potential benefit (as you said as well).

tbh if you ask me possibly some between Adeptus Astrades and Adepta Soritas would work better (meaning normal well trained humans with power armor and other space marine style hardware).

[Black Admiral]

Aren't the Wolf Brothers a Space Wolf successor chapter or have they been reconned out of existance, my codex gives them as a second founding chapter related to the Space Wolves (and it's 5th Ed codex).

The Wolf Brothers were the only successor Chapter to the Space Wolves formed; they went renegade or otherwise came to pieces in entirety (per Battle of the Fang). Something about their geneseed requires Fenris to stabilise it; while one Wolf Priest was working on removing that factor, during the Thousand Sons' attack on the Fang in M32, Magnus killed him and destroyed all of his research, and even if they could replicate it (which they can't), the Wolves wouldn't.

[Vashon]

What limits the number of Space Marines is not really geneseed, but its a matter of politics, since they don't want the Astartes to grow too strong. (See the Babab War.)

Badab War? That was almost purely an Astartes conflict and was solved by Astartes.

No, I think you mean the Horus Heresy.

Exactly, and a hell of a lot of ordinary Imperials died. Others lived under the rebels' rule for many years, and the efforts of several loyal chapters were diverted from, say, fighting the real enemy.

The Space Marines have a nasty history of disloyalty. On any given day, operationally, they are trusted because they are reliable. Over the ten thousand years of their existence, on the grand strategic level, they aren't trusted. I can't blame the Imperium for that, really. And I don't think more Marines is what the Imperium most urgently needs- the Marines don't and can't exist in the numbers it would take to fix the galaxy. What's needed is reform in the handling of the perfectly ordinary portions of the service, the Navy and Guard.

And frankly, they need to break the Mechanicus monopoly on technology, it's incredibly counterproductive- but that would be immensely difficult.

The chapters are valuable, but they're a very specialized and small force compared to the overall Imperial military.

I disagree. On the Grand level, the Loyalist Astartes chapters proved there worth and there loyalty. But in doing so, never disproved the danger that the Astartes represent. For every Marine that goes rogue, a hundred live and die inbloyalty. Not to mention that the Great Crusade would have not been possible in the way in happened without the Astartes Legions. Sure, while a single Astartes is worth only 50 Guardsmen in a straight up fight, that Astartes will never age and never tire and only get more and more deadly as time goes on. All that experience and tactical acumen built up isnt eroded by age like most Guardsmen, so by the end of the average Astartes life, he has likely killed more than most regiments would be capable of. By the end of his third century, he is likely worth a battalion or company of ordinary men. At the concentrations that the Legions were deployed in, multi chapter sized up to 50,000-100,000 for a single planet, the first ten thousand world went by quick.

Think about it. 5000 Astartes and their attendant assets could conquer and subdue OUR world in less than a month. Maybe in a week. With possibly no more than 50 losses. Then within hours or days, they are conquering another world. In a single year, these Astartes could single handedly conquer 20 modern day Earths. By themselves. By the time Horus was found, he had at the very minimum 500,000 times that. 2000 modern Earths. In a single year


Lets do the math again. With a different deployment method.

Use a 'mere' 1000 Marines to destroy or severely cripple a M.E.equivalents worlds military and fighting ability and establish beacheads for the Imperial Army to start from. For a thousand Marines this could take as little as three to four days. Two weeks tops. Thats roughly 100 beachheads begun. A year. For a 'mere' chapter size marine force. The Astartes have proven there worth and have proven to be essential to the Imperiums continued survival. The main reason I beleive that tripling the current number of chapter in less than a full millenia or close to it is that it Takes the output of an entire Forge World to fully equip within a reasonable timeframe. Not to mention training them and handing over worlds for recruitment purposes.

Now what it would do is give the Imperium so breathing space for the real issue that you pointed out: reforming the Guard and Navy. Really its just the Guard that needs help, the Navy just needs as massive an expansion as possible. The best thing for the Guard is for when deployments become to grinding or go on too long, to gradually replace the current regiments and ship the vets home and have the vets train new regiments and Admech Equipthem. Slowly but surely build a professional Guard with Reservist and Expereinced NCOs training new regiments. For worlds where there is little civilization, this could be the excuse you need to develop them. Whenever these Regiments are finished traings, you send a third to combat to the on going fight that the vets came from or the nearest conflict from there, another third to the nearest hot zone of that world and the remaining third will be used to train new regiments which will be both stationed at that particular world and stationed to neighboring to worlds to assist in expanding and training their worlds. Then send new regiments after the ones already sent off and send the new vets back and send some of them to the neighboring worlds with your spare regiments.


But to be able to do that, the Imperium needs breathing room. Saturation with Astartes Chapters can grant that breathing room.

[Zinegata]

The problem you're forgetting is that Chapters are still expensive, and requires diversion of huge amount of resources.

And rushing things can lead to stuff like the "Cursed Founding", wherein the vast majority of the chapters created end up dead, insane, or spikey. With the few surviving loyalists being annoyingly emo and angsty.

[Vashon]

The problem you're forgetting is that Chapters are still expensive, and requires diversion of huge amount of resources.

And rushing things can lead to stuff like the "Cursed Founding", wherein the vast majority of the chapters created end up dead, insane, or spikey. With the few surviving loyalists being annoyingly emo and angsty.

...dude. I didnt forget that. At all. Re-read my post. Srsly bro.

Look, expanding the Astartes is a damn sight simpler and easier than trying to expand the Guard. And it would be felt much quicker than expanding the Guard. Not to mention Logistics. As for expanding the Navy, that needs to be happening anyways.
I kinda already touched on why expanding the Astartes would be easier and faster and would result in having more immediate wiggle room. Once the Adeptus Astartes expansion has atleast increased its general size by 50%, then you can begin also focusing on expanding and professionalising the Imperial Guard. With these expansions come the benefit of all those little brushfires, and the usual Waaaghs being crushed ever quicker and planets being secure enough to retake many of the Ork worlds in there nearest sector. Then you can hammerdown on the multiplanet crusades that arent in the same league as Sabbats Worlds crusades or Jericho reach crusades. Then the Imperium can begin to re-expand and establish its power. But before you can quadruple or more the Imperial Navy and increase the standing Imperial Guard from 3 trillion to 10 trillion plus more reservists, the Imperium needs wiggle room. And for that, turn to the Astartes.

[Lord Revan]

well a typical SM chapter needs at full strength

3-5 battlebarges (depending on if it's planet or fleet based)
several smaller vessels
support craft for those vessel
crew for those vessels
an unknown number of chapter serfs to mantain the chapter keep if it's not on a battlebarge or other fleet based element (you know janitors, cooks and such)
1.000 active battle brothers (excluding chapter command, armory, Apothecarion and Librarius)
the people for the chapter command, armory, Apothecarion and Librarius (with the possible exception of the Librarius if the chapter as no librarians)
armor, weapons, ammo, food, medical supplies and other nessery equipment for all of the above.

now remember that any chapter homeworld is removed from tithe, so essentially their resources are lost to the rest of the imperium, also it takes time to grow and train space marines and then there's the fact as I mention that a good chunk of the heavier SM tech is also quite rare so you can't just go a local forge world and ask for a 200 sets of terminator armor.

[Ahriman238]

In the latest 'Nid Codex, the High Lords' desperation move against a massive Hive Fleet drilling straight for Terra is laid out. If they go into a true total war footing, they expect to be able to multiply the Guard by a factor of 5. This is if they ramp up production of everything, then arm every able-bodied man and woman, seize every transport for carrying men and war material, etc. And don't mind that the Imperial economy will cease to exist for a generation or more.

As for the Astartes, the real cap is that the Space Marines will never, ever lower their standards for recruitment and training. Yes, their specialized gear can be hard to come by, chapters maintain centuries old suits of armor, and that's not strictly for tradition's sake. Sure, every Space marine will produce 2 geneseed in his life, most of which will be stored by the chapter for replacing combat losses, less the 5-10% tithe Terra demands of most chapters for forming new chapters and testing for mutation. But the real limiter is that very few poeple have what it takes to make it as Space Marines, and the chapters will not half-ass it.

[Vashon]

As far as the planet goes, it is usually a Feral World with a small but rugged population. Many Chapter Homeworlds do in fact have manufacturing centers on the world and use some of the local populace to churn out shit like bolter ammunition.

Again, at most you are removing 2000 worlds from an empire of a million+ worlds. Less if they are Fleet based but that runs into the issue of building the Battlebarges. If this were to occur, most of the new chapters would have to make do with a single BattleBarge at first but with the standard number of StrikeCruisers with delivery of later BBs taking place in time.


Such events are where hell would get raised thanks to LoLChaos. Its possible that only 1500 new chapters would survive with more than 500 BattleBrothers 42k. The rest would get folded in with geneseed brethren. So about 1600-1850 Chapters ready for battle from these foundings.

And the reason SM dont lower there standards is both the ability to survive the transformation and the fact that they want the best they can get due to numerical limitations. Grueling trials and such are standard as are test of killing ability but forcing those who survive even that to fight to the death is a way weed it down to where they can comfortably stay within the 1000 limiter. The fights to the death are unnecessary.

Besides, the population of the Imperium is easily in the tens of quadrillions. Finding recruits for the Adeptus Astartes will effect a hand full of billions as an initial impact. This is especially doable if for the founding recruits are drawn from far a wide and whittled and weeded down and out to the strongest ten thousand or so then implanted with the geneseed. The survivors become SMs. Either atleast one chapter or one chapter and the beginning of another.

On a pure numers basis of bodies, expanding the Adeptus Astartes to double or near triple plus Chapter Serfs is easily within the realm of feasibility. The only real issues are with Librarians...



Still a good tradeoff and in the middle of these expansion wiggle room will appear for the Guard. Then the ball gets rolling.